EAS and Central Texas flooding

[Bongwater]

And as many or more reports say that they did something unusual which was to predict the effects of the storm, not normally done.

Since when are "local governments" authorities in weather forecasting?

And what is actually factual is that reports were earlier than ever, considering that it was not former policy to anticipate the results of bad weather. It has been amply seen and shown that there were extra people on duty before the storm, in fact.

Actually in Seattle, our weather people are quite eager to tell you if a storm system could cause flooding, power outages, falling trees, storm drain backups and possible evacuations. And have been for decades.

Sometimes it does happen, sometimes it doesn't. I guess the idea is to get everybody on the same page with the warnings so if it does, nobody can say they weren't told.

But then again, Seattle is also a TV market where a minor dusting of snow get it's own chyron images, logos ("STORM OF THE CENTURY!!") and themed bumper music before it even gets here.

With the senseless cuts to NOAA and FEMA, it's hard for anyone even with the memory span of a goldfish to buy that "It's the media's fault" hogwash. Especially when we had a reliable monitoring/alert system before January 20th and an unreliable one after. It's on record.

Secondly, the media is there to report the news. Not make it. Trust me, there's more than enough work in reporting alone these days.

And those satellite dishes in the yard of that radio station simply do not control the weather. We know because some of us have had to take a broom to those things with each snowfall.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

From all I have read, the National Weather Service warned of high rainfall rates a day prior with a flash flood watch.

Yes, according to this local press report, a flood *watch* was issued in the afternoon which would have displayed a message on phones but would not have triggered EAS. People located in the areas known to flood should have paid attention, but a couple things reportedly worked against that. First, it was the Fourth of July holiday weekend and a lot of people were said to be visiting the area who may not have been familiar with the true risk suggested by such a *watch*. And then, there is reportedly a lot of weather alert fatigue for people who do live there since those kinds of alerts happen so frequently, the implication being that they mentally tune them out or don't take them very seriously, like the story of the boy who cried wolf.

So then the first flood *warning* came at 1:14 a.m. The linked article states that this warning would have triggered EAS alerts which means local radio should have broadcast them in addition to phones and other devices, but by that time most people were in bed and many probably slept right through it. And then the flooding was underway by daybreak, so all the EAS warnings ahead of it happened overnight.

The NWS forecasters technically did their job by issuing the watch, but we've seen that story before. As I recall when superstorm Sandy hit the northeast, it was technically no longer a hurricane so the NWS could not use strong enough verbiage in their forecast to convey the true risk. They issued a "high wind warning" which sounded fairly innocuous compared to the more urgent sounding hurricane warnings issued to points south. The same seems true here in TX. If the flood *warning* or flood *emergency* and major EAS alerts had been issued preemptively before everyone went to bed, more people probably would have realized the gravity of the situation and the need to take action.

One additional detail that has been reported -- The National Weather Service’s most experienced warning coordination meteorologist for that area left on April 30, after taking the early retirement package the Trump administration used to cut federal employees. So there are still legitimate questions about whether the office was able to do the job that was needed in this critical situation.

 

[Louisvilleradio]

Yes, according to this local press report, a flood *watch* was issued in the afternoon which would have displayed a message on phones but would not have triggered EAS. People located in the areas known to flood should have paid attention, but a couple things reportedly worked against that. First, it was the Fourth of July holiday weekend and a lot of people were said to be visiting the area who may not have been familiar with the true risk suggested by such a *watch*. And then, there is reportedly a lot of weather alert fatigue for people who do live there since those kinds of alerts happen so frequently, the implication being that they mentally tune them out or don't take them very seriously, like the story of the boy who cried wolf.

So then the first flood *warning* came at 1:14 a.m. The linked article states that this warning would have triggered EAS alerts which means local radio should have broadcast them in addition to phones and other devices, but by that time most people were in bed and many probably slept right through it. And then the flooding was underway by daybreak, so all the EAS warnings ahead of it happened overnight.

The NWS forecasters technically did their job by issuing the watch, but we've seen that story before. As I recall when superstorm Sandy hit the northeast, it was technically no longer a hurricane so the NWS could not use strong enough verbiage in their forecast to convey the true risk. They issued a "high wind warning" which sounded fairly innocuous compared to the more urgent sounding hurricane warnings issued to points south. The same seems true here in TX. If the flood *warning* or flood *emergency* and major EAS alerts had been issued preemptively before everyone went to bed, more people probably would have realized the gravity of the situation and the need to take action.

One additional detail that has been reported -- The National Weather Service’s most experienced warning coordination meteorologist for that area left on April 30, after taking the early retirement package the Trump administration used to cut federal employees. So there are still legitimate questions about whether the office was able to do the job that was needed in this critical situation.

Meteorologist here - while you raise some valid points, there is no way that the flash flood emergency could've been issued prior to the event taking place. Our data and modeling aren't good enough to do that quite yet. If every potential event had the "emergency" wording, no one would take it seriously when a situation such as this actually occurs. Additionally, while standard flash flood warnings don't set phones off, the flash flood emergency would've set off the wireless emergency alert (WEA) system on all phones in the area. I'm not sure about the quality of cell coverage around the camp Mystic area though. The NWS did the best that they could do given the information that we knew at the time. It was truly a freak event that took place during the worst timeframe possible, and impacted more secluded areas that may have not been able to get the warning in enough time.

 

[stan]

Kerr county had an opportunity to install a river monitoring and warning system as was done after the deadly 2015 flooding in Wimberley and downstream. It was discussed in 2017 and county officials couldn’t agree to spend $50,000 on a study.

 

[Ex-RadioTV]

Proponents for the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act working its way through Congress continue to emphasize AM radio’s ability to to deliver emergency alerts to more than 90% of Americans, even when internet and cellular networks fail. With that in mind, can anyone describe how well the system worked, or point to some examples of how lives were saved by AM Radio and/or EAS during the latest flooding emergency in Texas?

It looks like ground zero for this disaster was around Kerville, which has one AM Radio station, KERV. The nearest large market with signals that appear to reach the area is San Antonio. Were they all on it?

So we still don’t know the answer to the original question.

How many of the radio stations in the affected area passed along the weather information via EAS, with its unique alert tones, vs. just reading the information as part of a newscast? Does the local or state EAS plan require broadcasters to monitor a local NOAA weather radio signal?

At the national level, the FCC requires broadcasters to conduct required weekly tests, participate in monthly and periodic national tests, and of course immediately forward a “national emergency message”. Beyond that, for other EAS event codes, including the “FLA” code (for Flash Flood Watch), EAS participation by stations is optional, and such events may be ignored by the broadcaster, at their discretion.

The larger issue is that the industry pushed for EAS to be a system that can function at times of unmanned operations, so the EAS device is programmed by the station to respond only to the required events, and nothing more. Even during manned hours, the device may get ignored unless it’s spitting out a paper receipt of the latest RWT from a monitoring assignment.

 

[davideduardo]

How many of the radio stations in the affected area passed along the weather information via EAS, with its unique alert tones, vs. just reading the information as part of a newscast?

How many small market stations have late night or overnight newscasts? The reason we have EAS is to overcome the limited staffing and inexperienced or unqualified staff at smaller stations by being totally "automatic" at the station level.

Does the local or state EAS plan require broadcasters to monitor a local NOAA weather radio signal?

No, and it has never been suggested. That is a manual process and requires someone monitoring the NOA artificial voice 24/7.

At the national level, the FCC requires broadcasters to conduct required weekly tests, participate in monthly and periodic national tests, and of course immediately forward a “national emergency message”. Beyond that, for other EAS event codes, including the “FLA” code (for Flash Flood Watch), EAS participation by stations is optional, and such events may be ignored by the broadcaster, at their discretion.

While that question has merit, wouldn't most stations in areas known to have flooding accept such alerts? And we have to remember how few people would have even been listening to the radio at the time of the floods in those camps and low areas. The better solution is the combination of radio, TV, phones.

The larger issue is that the industry pushed for EAS to be a system that can function at times of unmanned operations, so the EAS device is programmed by the station to respond only to the required events, and nothing more.

Most stations, long before EAS was created, did not have "live" newspeople on duty late at night, overnights and during most of weekends. The "industry" did not "push" for anything. They recommended improvements in the systems that evolved from the first CONELRAD alert devices. The idea was to make it possible to "take over" all stations in the event of an emergency, directly from the source; even a station with a newsroom would have to read a bulletin and then decide whether to interrupt programming... unless they were getting coffee, on a break, taking a personal phone call or whatever.

EAS was intended to be the most direct way to broadcast alerts from official sourcers with NO STATION INTERVENTION..

Even during manned hours, the device may get ignored unless it’s spitting out a paper receipt of the latest RWT from a monitoring assignment.

EAS takes over the station by itself. Nobody has to be there.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

So we still don’t know the answer to the original question.

How many of the radio stations in the affected area passed along the weather information via EAS, with its unique alert tones, vs. just reading the information as part of a newscast? Does the local or state EAS plan require broadcasters to monitor a local NOAA weather radio signal?

I think I answered my own question, actually. From the article I linked in post #22 (emphasis mine):

Rain began to fall around midnight, and the first flash flood warning was issued by the NWS at 1:14 a.m. Friday, Fogarty said. That warning should have triggered a response by local emergency management and local media to spread the word to those in harm's way, as well as the Emergency Alert System that broadcasts warnings to televisions and radios, Fogarty said.

And then...

The most serious warning came at 4:03 a.m. when the NWS issued a flash flood emergency, warning of an “extremely dangerous and life-threatening situation” and urging immediate evacuations to higher ground.

I'm not from that area, but it seems like radio wasn't much of a factor in the overall scheme of things. Virtually every radio station would have been running on autopilot at that hour, especially on a holiday, and few people would have been listening. The EAS alert would have been broadcast, but most people would have been asleep.

According to meteorologist @Louisvilleradio above, standard flash flood warnings don't set phones off, but the flash flood emergency at 4:03 a.m. (!) would've set off the wireless emergency alert (WEA) system on all phones in the area.

 

[kevtronics]

The camp should've had a NOAA weather radio with the alert function, and if someone wasn't up all night, have the alarm enabled to wake up someone in charge -- especially in an area with a history of flash flooding.

And yes, the county decided not to set up warning sirens after the last flooding disaster because they decided "the taxpayers won't pay for it":

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/06/us/texas-flood-warnings-sirens.html

 

[TheBigA]

Inside Radio has this reporting on radio coverage during the Texas flood:

Texas Stations Provide ‘Vital Personal Connection’ During Non-Stop Flood Coverage.

Coverage of the tragic flooding that hit six central Texas counties over the Independence Day weekend, causing widespread damage and loss of lives, again showed that when it comes to

www.insideradio.com

 

[b-turner]

We are talking out in the sticks. Yes Kerrville is a really a small city that connects to Ingram. The county is 55,000 people. 50% live in Kerrville and Ingram proper with many subdivisions just outside the corporate city limits.

I would almost guarantee every radio station would have been unmanned and I seriously doubt any station could afford even a fulltime news director. Some of those stations would not be received at Camp Mystic. I have driven that highway hundreds of times and being in radio I know what I could receive in that area.

A typical National Weather Service transmitter in a place like Kerrville would mean iffy at best recption at Camp Mystic, certainly not enough to trigger the alert.

TV would be from Austin and San Antonio. I doubt any broadcast TV in these markets would do much more than the EAS audio and scroll or the Flash Flood Watch, Warning and then the rare Emergency icon on the botom corner of the screen.

I don't know how many cars are on the road overnight for the sheriff's department. It would not be many. Kerr County is pretty big and the greatest number live along the I-10 corridor. I would not be surprised if there was just one Department of Public Safety Sate Trooper working, maybe two.

I really cannot think of any source that could have saved lives than already were savd by th warnings. I recall filing comments with the FCC suggesting cell phones be a part of the EAS plan but sadly too many turn off notifications that could save their lives.

 

[secondchoice]

I believe Kerr County has code red. Did the local 911center activate it after the flood warning 1:14? A camp with over 400 female campers should have a night guard /watchman / security person (s) who should be getting weather warnings: tornado, flood, wildfire, severe thunderstorm warnings as part his or her job.

 

[alok]

They should have had sirens. A certain type of sound from sirens would have indicated "evacuate" . . . the public should have had knowledge of the sirens & sounds so they would know, they should have evacuated all camps the night before.

The talk is that cell phone service was spotty, broadcast radio and TV too in the area.
They should have put in cell towers to serve the area (camps), and broadcast translators . . . cell companies could pay for the towers, maybe some broadcasters would be willing to help pay for some translators, or the camp owners could pay for it, or the taxpayers.
And teach average people to look for alerts from cell phones & broadcasters, some still don't know this.

A siren system, especially near the camp sites, with battery backup and triggered by a radio signal that could have been relayed to the hilly areas from afar then sent by radio signals to sirens would have done the trick.

Naturally in all this, you need to have the authorities do the right thing and issue the alerts.

They knew the area is subject to flooding, communication improvements should have happened years ago.

 

[Ex-RadioTV]

EAS takes over the station by itself. Nobody has to be there.

Only if the device is programmed for those types of events.

And come on, David. When I asked if the state required broadcasters to monitor a local NOAA weather signal…

No, and it has never been suggested. That is a manual process and requires someone monitoring the NOA artificial voice 24/7.

I meant as a source on the EAS equipment. In fact, The Texas Emergency Alert System Plan, Appendix G (pg 41) specifies a NOAA/NWS assignment for each of the state’s 25 operational areas.

 

[davideduardo]

They should have had sirens. A certain type of sound from sirens would have indicated "evacuate" . . . the public should have had knowledge of the sirens & sounds so they would know, they should have evacuated all camps the night before.

They really did not know "the night before" that the rainfall would be so extreme.

The talk is that cell phone service was spotty, broadcast radio and TV too in the area.
They should have put in cell towers to serve the area (camps), and broadcast translators . . . cell companies could pay for the towers, maybe some broadcasters would be willing to help pay for some translators, or the camp owners could pay for it, or the taxpayers.

Are you in a more populated area of the U.S.? You have to have driven rural Texas counties to understand how many thousands of such devices would be needed to cover rural Texas.

And teach average people to look for alerts from cell phones & broadcasters, some still don't know this.

We have had such alerts for decades. But people who are asleep do not wake up occasionally to check their phone.

A siren system, especially near the camp sites, with battery backup and triggered by a radio signal that could have been relayed to the hilly areas from afar then sent by radio signals to sirens would have done the trick.

Yet still the event occurred almost instantaneously in the middle of the night, and from what we are seeing there would not have been adequate time in many places to round up people and move them.

They knew the area is subject to flooding, communication improvements should have happened years ago.

The question is whether there was any evidence that such a huge flood could happen... ever.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

The question is whether there was any evidence that such a huge flood could happen... ever.

 

[radiofan2023]

Now’s not the time for jokes

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Now’s not the time for jokes

It's not a joke. Flooding in Texas is so predictable that there's a very famous song and album named after it. That's the reply to David's question.

 

[stan]

Now’s not the time for jokes

It’s not a joke. It’s a song recognizing that Texas, especially the Hill Country, is prone to flooding. It’s a good song and album.

 

[b-turner]

Flooding is common in the area but floods of this type are very, very rare. Yes, Wimberly had a big flood some 80 miles away. There was the campers in he low water crossing that died in Center Point in the 1980s but that was more or less he fault of the bus driver, if I recall correctly. I heard there was a huge flood in the mid to late 1970s along this stretch of the river. I'd say that was the last time a flood of such magnitude occured. So, sirens would sound about twice a century and you'd need thousands.

 

[alok]

David,

They really did not know "the night before" that the rainfall would be so extreme.

the area is noted for bad flooding, the night before they knew there would be flooding, camps "especially camps" should have kept older people that work at the camp up all night, remember you are doing it to help people and save lives if something bad happens.

Are you in a more populated area of the U.S.? You have to have driven rural Texas counties to understand how many thousands of such devices would be needed to cover rural Texas.

I know the area, I have been in Kerrville. You can cover with sirens, especially that camp area, I think there are at least three very popular camps in the area.

We have had such alerts for decades. But people who are asleep do not wake up occasionally to check their phone.

Sirens would have worked, a town near-by called Comfort,TX had sirens, they sounded the sirens and alerted the people per an official in that town. The sirens did their job. The Guadalupe River goes thru Comfort.
If I leave my phone on at night near my bed, and have it set to warn me, it wakes me if an alert comes along. A radio with EAS feature that comes on automatically would wake a person too.
Sirens would wake you or somebody to tell all about what is going on.

Yet still the event occurred almost instantaneously in the middle of the night, and from what we are seeing there would not have been adequate time in many places to round up people and move them.

You are correct, but sirens would have helped if sounded early enough, as is said . . . to err on the side of caution

The question is whether there was any evidence that such a huge flood could happen... ever.

Again, they had issues with flooding in the past, yes not as serious but they had flooding . . . not as large but again the area is known for bad flooding.


I been hearing that the local, state & federal officials have been talking about putting in a warning system in that area for years, but it was always voted down I believe more than once.
Now on the news they are saying they will have to re-visit the issue.