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Elton John on the chopping block at KLUV

R

rbrucecarter5

Guest
UGH!!! I thought we got rid of the chopped up versions of songs when Sunny went away. But this morning, I heard the chopped up version of "Tiny Dancer" by Elton John. BLEAH! BAD - KLUV: Play the whole song uncut or not at all!!!! Everybody is up in arms against "Clean Flicks" for chopping up movies and taking things out. Because it is not true to the director's vision for the film. I submit that chopping up songs is just as bad - it is not true to the artist's original vision for the song.

If they are going to chop up songs for length, what is on the chopping block next? "Bye Bye Miss American Pie"? "McArthur Park"? What about "Hey Jude"? If all songs absolutely have to run no more than 4 minutes, then chop away. Or are some songs sacred and others not? Morning banter is good, it is entertaining. But Jody could have waited another minute to get back to his piece about Chuck-E-Cheese hell (which I totally agree with). Tiny Dancer, in its original, uncut form, is a true masterpiece - a miniature symphony. To cut out movements - is just awful.
 
Well Bruce it ain't gonna happen. John S.will be here shortly to defend KLUV's "editing tools".I agree with you. If you're going to play the song,,,PLAY THE WHOLE SONG.Unless of course you are going to sign up for George Gimarc's "S.A.S.S."format. While they are editing songs,how about editing spots?
 
I remember Heart's promo single for Magic Man had one labeled FM long version with the full 5+ minute album cut and the other side would have AM edit.

Playing edited songs was always my pet peeve about Top40. Anyone remember WLS trying to play an edit of Led Zep's Stairway to Heaven? Even Sirius does it on their decades channels playing the single edit of Black Magic Woman on their 60's channel among others. It drives me crazy (cue Fine Young Cannibals).
 
Hey Kplexcomplex:

Unless of course you are going to sign up for George Gimarc's "S.A.S.S."format.
Click to expand...

What does "S.A.S.S." mean?

For the record, I thought George Gimarc's "Rock and Roll Alternative" was one of the best radio programs ever.

I planned social events *around* that show. (On the rare occasion that I had somewhere to go on Sunday night, that is.) I wish some station would bring it back with a contemporary format.
 
"S.A.S.S." SHORT ATTENTION SPAN (SONGS?)
George started this late spring 2006.It all edited songs, short commercial breaks. Its not on any station I am aware of. The editing is quite good. The idea is ,that most listeners in a car really don't pay attention to certain songs,only ones they like,so they are constantly pushing their "presets" .each song is approximately no more than 2:30 in length.

His Rock and Roll Alternative did have a tremendous following,including his "Back Pages "on KZPS,pluws the "Lost Tapes"on KRLD.
 
Can someone give me a brief history of George Girmarc? I remember him on The Edge when that station first was on the air. I didn't move to Dallas until 1988.
 
"American Pie" wasn't chopped up for radio

United Artists Records knew that AM stations would never play an 8-minute song. The record company provided radio with an edit that used verses 2, 3 and 5. That's the version you heard on KLIF, WABC and every other Top 40 station back in '72.

"American Pie" is one song that's actually improved in its edited version. Unfortunately the edit has never been included on any CD.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
UGH!!! I thought we got rid of the chopped up versions of songs when Sunny went away. But this morning, I heard the chopped up version of "Tiny Dancer" by Elton John. BLEAH! BAD - KLUV: Play the whole song uncut or not at all!!!!

Tiny Dancer, in its original, uncut form, is a true masterpiece - a miniature symphony. To cut out movements - is just awful.
Click to expand...

One of the stations here in Tampa bay also plays the hacked-up Tiny Dancer, with the first instance of the main chorus ("Hold me closer, tiny dancer") clipped out. Even the skipping over part sounded awkward.

If "Tiny Dancer" has to be edited for length, that's NOT how you do it. And considering that's, personally, an "anthem" song (a song that's so good, it has to be played in its entirety), it should not be cut at all.

It seems that radio stations are more and more ravenous for commercial time these days. And unfortunately, the poor "Tiny Dancer" is one of the victims.

Now you know why I avoid radio like the plague these days.
 
The blame probably belongs to the Gold Discs that so many stations use for their programming. Edits on most songs don't bother me, save for the previously mentioned Stairway and the worst offender of all time, Vanilla Fudge's "You Keep Me Hangin' On. Fortunatly no one in their right mind would play VF on the radio today...it's best left as an "i-pod" classic.
 
In Charlotte the station I work for cuts up George Michael's "Careless Whisper". It drives me crazy!
 
jimbo said:
Anyone remember WLS trying to play an edit of Led Zep's Stairway to Heaven?
Click to expand...

Count me as one of those people. Although STH had an unusual introduction to AM radio--some stations were actually playing it off the album, before the single was released...so those listeners got the full version. Kind of hard for those stations to reverse course. Same story with Paul McCartney's "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey."
 
edits

I've never understood why any Programmer would want to air edits? Please enlighten us if you are in that camp.
 
Mike Sheridan said:
In Charlotte the station I work for cuts up George Michael's "Careless Whisper". It drives me crazy!
Click to expand...

I think what would drive me crazy is that song getting played at all. ;D

Regarding the comment about the GoldDiscs... I looked up the song on the Jones TM website, and found three versions listed. Two versions appear on GoldDiscs, with a run time of 6:10.

The third entry appears on a HitDisc, and this version is credited to EJ's album "Almost Famous" which was released in 2000. On this version, the word "Edit" is listed next to the title, and since one of the Jones TM Rep's informed me they rarely alter songs, I suspect this version was likely edited by the record company. I'd be willing to bet KLUV's using that version.

R
 
Oldies Cat said:
I've never understood why any Programmer would want to air edits? Please enlighten us if you are in that camp.
Click to expand...

More often than not the longer versions contain excess repetition of lyrics and / or instrumentation. Some exceptions do apply, such as American Pie. In this case, the longer version merits play, since it’s a pop ballad.

R
 
George Gimarc was a student at NTSU(UNT) His first commercial gig was on the old KDNT FM along side Andy Waldrop co-hosting Jukebox Saturday night .The only Oldies show on at the time in DFW besides Bud Buschardt's "57Nostalgia Place" on WFAA-AM. They started the show on KNTU. George then started a "New Wave show" on KNTU in the late 70's which was the begining of the "Rock and Roll Alternative" heard later on KZEW. Later he would start one of the very first "classic rock" formats in the country on KRQX (the former WFAA-AM. Afterwards he hosted "Back Pages" on KZPS,and from there he created "The EDGE". He would go over to the U.K. and meet with the leading punk bands at the time,and wrote a few books with Pat Reeder. "He also hosted the Lost Tapes" heard over KRLD/TSN on sunday nights. For more George information go to Gimarc.com
 
edits discussion

Robert Bass said:
Oldies Cat said:
I've never understood why any Programmer would want to air edits? Please enlighten us if you are in that camp.
Click to expand...

More often than not the longer versions contain excess repetition of lyrics and / or instrumentation. Some exceptions do apply, such as American Pie. In this case, the longer version merits play, since it’s a pop ballad.
Click to expand...

Yes, but those are the versions our listeners hear when they buy the CD (or, in past cases, the album). "Excess repetition" is really kind of subjective. Who are we to make that decision for our listeners?

My suspicion is most Programmers do it so they can get more songs in per hour, which I've never thought amounted to a hill of beans when it comes to overall listening. Especially for adult targeted stations like classic rock, variety hits, oldies, '80s, why cheat your audience with chopped-up versions of their
favorite songs?
 
Oldies Cat said:
Yes, but those are the versions our listeners hear when they buy the CD (or, in past cases, the album). "Excess repetition" is really kind of subjective. Who are we to make that decision for our listeners?
Click to expand...

Another factor, especially in the days of records, is that 45 RPM versions were likely to be used. The album versions were sometimes longer. I myself would rather have what I heard on the radio. If the artist wanted to also include a longer version on the album, that's cool.

R
 
We had originally planned to just 'fade it' about halfway through! :)
 
All I can say is - iPods don't chop up your favorite songs. Instrumental sections and repeating lyrics are NOT superfluous, they are part of the creative vision of the musician. It is very arrogant to come along later and say they were wrong to include certain sections in their song. Better not to play the song at all, than to butcher it up.

OK, let's start chopping "American Pie", "Hey Jude", and "MacArthur Park". Who is to make the value judgement that "American Pie" is a rock anthem, and is more worthy of full length than "Tiny Dancer". Both are part of rock and roll history, both songs deserve to be heard in their entirety. Is Don McLean more of a household word than Elton John? I don't think so. Are we butchering Sir Elton John's work because he is gay? Should we butcher the rest of his songs? I haven't heard the masterpiece "Madman Across the Waters" in years, it is long, I suppose it should be butchered up. Next, let's make the Diana Spencer fans mad by butchering up Sir Elton's song about her!

Personalities help. But I'm in it for the music. I love Radio Disney's slogan: Your music YOUR way. Sounds like a good idea for any format. Sadly, Radio Disney doesn't deliver because they chose to go IBOC. That isn't my way. But that is another topic.

Please - STOP butchering songs!!!!
 
Shorter songs = more spots..more spots= increase in ipod+satellite=internet listenership. Simple math. Spin the ratings all you want. Listenership to radio is down.
 
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