End of local talk radio?

[MikefromDelaware]

Local or Network? That is the question. Bottomline is making a profit for the corporation. This is true whether it is radio/TV, or a chemical, electronics, or phamacutical company. So the PD will try to put on the air what he considers to be the best programming he can get, based on his budget. Many are upset by radio being mostly syndicated or network oriented today. The so called Golden Days of Radio were mostly network programs. Most programming on television today is network or syndicated shows, with very little local programming other than news and public affairs shows making up the local programming. So it is with today's radio programming.

It's nice to have a good local talk show or a local music show, but I also enjoy listening to such network or syndicated shows like: Glenn Beck, Jim Bohannan, Larry King (prior to Bohannan), Like him or hate him, Rush Limbaugh has the largest radio audience of any radio show, Kim Kommando, NPR's Morning Edition, All Things Considered, Car Talk, What Do You Know with Michael Feldman, Talk of the Nation, and Fresh Air. I used to enjoy The CBS Radio Mystery Theatre with EG Marshall as host (1970's), Casey Cassim's American Top 40 and Dick Bartley's Solid Gold Saturday Night, ABC Radio's Oldies programs, and my favorite radio show - NBC's Monitor. All great programming. All are (or were for the past programs mentioned) money makers and listener getters.

Frankly, other than drive time programming where there is a need for repetative local info (traffic/weather) most of the broadcast day probably will be more and more network/syndicated programming. However, NPR's ATC and Morning Edition have plenty of local breaks for just that purpose making a national show work quite well during morning and afternoon drive. So any network could do drive time programming they just have to leave plenty of breaks for local info (that probably is one draw back to Hannity's show on ABC radio as he's poor at being consistant for local breaks making his show not as good of a drive time type show unlike the NPR programs mentioned. So if you're waiting to hear the traffic report better tune to another station, because Hannity goes long and you'll be waiting longer to get that info.

 

[852RadioDude]

Don, what do you do? You want everyone to identify themselves, who is Don? How did that Fasulo thing you quoted work out? David Gold?

 

[Don62]

One station I'm familiar with - one not owned by Crap Ch. - KMBZ, Kansas City, the market's top NT, has this schedule:

5-9 a.m. local morning news
9-11 Darla Jaye (local conservative host)
11-2 Rush
2-4 O'Reilly
4-7 Shannin & Parks (local, conservative)
7- Boortz or something

I can't see why at least one local show can't be wrapped around syndication, such as Rush or Hannity.
KMBZ news radio is tops in its market, whilst its distant competitor, 710-KCMO, has zero local shows. Just a morning guy. Rest is filled by Hannity, Laura Ingram, Dave Ramsey, Savage.
That station - KCMO - is consistently at the bottom. Of course, it's news is rip and read, while KMBZ has a dedicated news staff.

I never said all syndication is bad. Overnight shows such as Coast To Coast AM and others like Limbaugh's help fill holes and generate listeners. A good combo of local and syndicated seems to work well.

I just see lazy or mediocre PDs or corporate dictates that say they won't invest in programming.

It seems corporate owners are too cheap. It's not like WFLA or WIOD or KRMG-Tulsa have major competitors.
Those stations are the market NT leaders while their competition is way behind. It's not like the stations couldn't afford to run some local shows. This isn't some tiny market that couldn't afford to hire local announcers.

It's ironic that while we have more talk radio stations than ever, the industry can't seem able to run anything local on some major heritage NT stations.

 

[Al Johnson]

There are more talk stations than ever because of syndication.

There is probably as much local talk now as before syndication.

Three local dayparts are local on KMBZ. What are you complaining about? That's better than most markets. As a rule, the top-rated talker is local only in morning drive. The next talker is all syndicated.

 

[Mystic_Mic]

Fret not my little ones...

Local talk radio will come rip-roaring back just before everyone has been been beaten into submission by the big biz stations.

The spirit of local talk radio cannot die. Some dude will get up on a soapbox and shout it out from the rooftops, if necessary. People will tune into internet talk radio on their James Bond watches if it gets that bad.

No, my preicouses, shake and quaver not! Be bold and assertive in demanding, at the top of your piping-llittle lungs, for the return of the local kinglet who rules your city's airwaves like the days of yore and yonder.

I ponder your angst and pat you on the head like a child, hand you a cookie with words of guidance and hope for a brighter tomorrow:

DOING TALK RADIO IS LIKE LEARNING TO PLAY A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT: THE MORE YOU PLAY, THE BETTER YOU GET (UNLESS, OF COURSE, YOU'RE CHARLES GOYETTE)...

 

[Don62]

Three local dayparts are local on KMBZ. What are you complaining about? That's better than most markets.

Read my post. I wasn't complaining. I was citing that station- KMBZ- as a good example of local talk mixed with syndication. The station is tops in its market.
I don't know why other chickensh-- stations - also highly rated - have to go to the easy route of wall to wall syndication. Very little creativity there or thought involved. Also disastrous to the industry.

As a rule, the top-rated talker is local only in morning drive. The next talker is all syndicated.

Says who? Some suit in Atlanta or San Antonio?
That's obviously CC's and Cox's dogma, but like Wal-Mart, their corporate practice doesn't make it necessarily so.
Apparently KMBZ'd PD doesn't listen to a suit who axes any kind of investment or hard work.
KMBZ does have local shows and demonstrates that local programming can work.

There are more talk stations than ever because of syndication.
There is probably as much local talk now as before syndication.

That's inaccurate. Look at the radio stations I have cited - WIOD, WFLA, KCMO, KRMG.
Zero locally-produced shows.
Three of four market leaders in four metropolitan areas.
All four of those stations used to have considerably more local programming before they sold their souls to the almighty $$.

I'm for GOOD Radio which isn't always local talent. I will happilly take Hannity over a local hack any day. Same with music radio. I would prefer hearing a solid voice tracker over a terrible sounding local talent making 6.50 an hour. I know that opinion isn't popular but its the truth.

Go ahead and take that jerk. You think listeners prefer his constant droning about how everyone who disagrees with the president is unAmerican? All he can talk about is us vs. them.
Follow him to your death in Iraq, if that is what makes for good "broadcasting."
So Bob Lassiter was a terrible-sounding local hack?
Alan Berg?
I'd stack any solid local talent against some idiot pretending he's in a city when he's not.

We part ways with your belief that a local show is automatically better than a syndicated show. It can be, but the reasons are usually other than because its local.

I never said a local show is automatically better than a satellite fed show.
The satellite-fed show is the easy way out. It's not broadcasting. Not real broadcasting.
Maybe for a 1,000 watter in Macon, Ga., but not for a supposed "heritage" major market talker.
And I guess McD's is better than Ruth Chris?

What's the big deal about "local"? How many interesting topics are there in any city to fill two or three hours of news/talk?
Pray tell, what are the hot local topics in the local news in Tampa today that a local talk host should be talking about for three hours? What important and/or interesting things are going on in the news in Tampa that aren't being talked about on the air that should be talked about today, June 1, 2007?

You have got to be the biggest radio igrnoranst out there.

What local topics?

Talk show hosts- like any radio hosts- can talk about many things, local, state and national.
I could come up with big lists of hot topics- local, state and national - that would make for interesting shows.

I guess it's hard to do that from some corporate headquarters hundreds of miles away.

You apparently don't listen to local talk radio. Or read newspapers.

Since the greedy CCs and Coxs have all but eliminated local programming, I guess one wouldn't have any idea of what local hosts talk about.

So broadcasting isn't anything at all about localism? Owning and running radio stations is only about being repeaters for network programming?

And you claim to work in radio?

With that attitude, I think this industry willl be healthy for many years with fewer and fewer workers.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Radio_Realist, you have good points and bad points about where our beloved industry is going. But someone needs to put you in your place on many of the things you say and I'm here to give you a reality check on one of them.

This sentence:
Any reporter who is any good is simply too expensive.

...is simply out of line. There are still good reporters who are far above and beyond "capable" of putting a great-sounding story on the air and use tape well. I urge you to listen to some of the great heritage news outlets around this country and not only to what they're saying, but how they say it. The verbiage has been dumbed down insultingly for the sake of "writing how people talk", but the talent is still very much there, and in spite of the massive cutbacks Wall Street seems to demand, the talent still thrives when it is given the freedom it needs.

Then I apologize for not weighing my post down with so many exceptions, disclaimers, and that it would exceed the size of the editing box.

First, I'm not talking about news readers. I'm talking about reporters. I'm talking about the people who actually go out and dig up stories. Real news stories. I'm not talking about the people who show up when a press conference is called, listen to what is said, and then condense it into a short, pithy report with a well selected tape drop-in. There is a heritage news outlet in the market where I live. There hasn't been a significant news story of importance broken on any radio station in the market where I live in decades.

Sure, if there's a flood, an explosion, a fire, or if a dirigible explodes while landing there's a chance a radio reporter might be here to describe what's going on. If being able to race to the scene of a disaster or catastrophe and shove a mic in front of a distraught victim to ask "how do you feel?" is your idea of "good reporting", fine. I still regard the definition or "reporter" that I got from my professors at journalism school. They said you dig up the real stories, the ones that have impacts on peoples' lives and pockets. Anyone can go to the press conference where the mayor announces that the city is going to rebuild Main St. A real reporter will find out if the contractor hired to rebuild Main Street was the mayor's brother-in-law, or a major contributor to the mayor's re-election campaign. A radio reporter will cover the ribbon cutting ceremony and make the listener feel like he was actually right there.

A real reporter will find out of the police have been turning a blind eye to certain crimes in certain neighborhoods because certain parties made certain contributions to certain organizations. A real reporter would find out the the city council could have reduced taxes if they would have hired a different collection agency. A real reporter digs for real news. And I'm not aware of any local radio stations that actually broadcast real news.

You seem to confuse skill at writing a story and speaking it aloud with skill at researching and uncovering the facts of a story. Those are two totally different things. That's why many of the best broadcast news operations had specialists on staff who knew how to go out and get stories, and other specialists who were good at reading the stories on the air with good diction and pronunciation.

Here's the giveaway in what you said, "There are still good reporters who are far above and beyond "capable" of putting a great-sounding story on the air and use tape well." Notice that you didn't say a word about researching. About investigating. About being a journalist. You focused on putting something on the air. That's like praising a newspaper for getting the ink on the paper without smearing it. It's not how great the story sounds, it's how great the content is. It's not about whether the news reader has a great set of pipes. It's about whether the words being spoken are important or meaningful.

So broadcasting isn't anything at all about localism? Owning and running radio stations is only about being repeaters for network programming?

There is no difference between plugging in to a syndication feed of someone who is working in a different city and hiring someone from a different city to come and sit in front of a microphone in your local studio. Neither of those things is "local" broadcasting.

 

[hammondo]

Don said, "I don't know why other chickensh-- stations - also highly rated - have to go to the easy route of wall to wall syndication[/b]. Very little creativity there or thought involved. Also disastrous to the industry."

Son, this thread has explained it a NUMBER of times. It's just like LIFE. MONEY runs things. As a past owner, I LOVED to make money. Don't YOU? Making money is the privelege of the guy who OWNS THE PLACE.

When you can flip the net key and make MORE money than with a couple of paid (sometimes drug or alcohol infested) employees - LOTS of them in radio) who want a paycheck (imagine that!), insurance, vacation, sick days, a Christmas party, and retirement bene's - (and potentially give YOU lawsuits for what he says) and then - still MOAN about how "unfair you are" .....And the only people who kvetch about "using the bird" are radio geeks" THAT COULD BE WHY, you think?

Don said; "Go ahead and take that jerk. You think listeners prefer his constant droning about how everyone who disagrees with the president is unAmerican?"

It's better than the local guy saying "everyone who disagrees with the (local sponsor) or (the local mayor) is unAmerican?" Then YOU get the lawsuit!

Certainly the bird is not perfect - but it's wise use is better in the long run - and BELIEVE ME, MOST LISTENERS don't give a rip if YOU still try to provide local elements.

 

[Faraway]

Don, off the top of my head, CC owned KOA, KEX, KFI, KTRH, KFYI, WISN, WTVN to name just a few have multiple locally produced shows. And don't tell me that becasue Cox's WSB are home to Boortz and Clark Howard they are being cheap. Kind of shoots down yet ANOTHER one of your theories that there are dictates from CC or Cox corp to run syndication. Sounds to me like a market by market decision, made by the local GM and PD who then must live by their decision.

As I've said before, no disagrees with your preference for local shows, but as has been pointed out many times and many different ways, your reasoning is merely uninformed opinion. That's your right. But you're wrong.

 

[titoisradio]

700 WLW is all local (though two hosts are national syndicated based from the station).

Mornigns Jim Scott
Mid-days Mike McConnel (syndicated though)
Mid afternoons: Bill Cunningham
Afternoons: Gary Burbank
6-9p: Sports Talk
9p-12mid: Scott Sloan
Overnights: America's Trucking Network w/Steve Sommers

And an all local news team (though it has been downsized the last couple of years) Oh ya, Clear Channel owns this station too.

 

[Don62]

Don said, "I don't know why other chickensh-- stations - also highly rated - have to go to the easy route of wall to wall syndication[/b]. Very little creativity there or thought involved. Also disastrous to the industry."

Son, this thread has explained it a NUMBER of times. It's just like LIFE. MONEY runs things. As a past owner, I LOVED to make money. Don't YOU? Making money is the privelege of the guy who OWNS THE PLACE.

When you can flip the net key and make MORE money than with a couple of paid (sometimes drug or alcohol infested) employees - LOTS of them in radio) who want a paycheck (imagine that!), insurance, vacation, sick days, a Christmas party, and retirement bene's - (and potentially give YOU lawsuits for what he says) and then - still MOAN about how "unfair you are" .....And the only people who kvetch about "using the bird" are radio geeks" THAT COULD BE WHY, you think?

Don said; "Go ahead and take that jerk. You think listeners prefer his constant droning about how everyone who disagrees with the president is unAmerican?"

It's better than the local guy saying "everyone who disagrees with the (local sponsor) or (the local mayor) is unAmerican?" Then YOU get the lawsuit!

I'm not talking about some smaller operation.
I'm talking about several radio market leaders. There's no excuse for Tampa, one of the Top 20 U.S. radio markets, not having one single local talk show.
It's because Cheapo Channel dominates that market (by owning the most powerful stations) like it does some others. CC is the world's largest radio station owner. They're hardly suffering from paying too many hosts. Indeed, they look for ways for others to pick up the check. They're literally nickelling and diming their employees to death.

Medium-sized market owners such as Bonneville, which owns KMBZ, if I recall correctly, aren't as cheapskate as CC or Cox.
They apparently know how to run radio unlike the Wal Marts of radio. Despite not being wall-to-wall lazy satellite-fed, they're No. 1 in their markets.

 

[Don62]

Don, off the top of my head, CC owned KOA, KEX, KFI, KTRH, KFYI, WISN, WTVN to name just a few have multiple locally produced shows. And don't tell me that becasue Cox's WSB are home to Boortz and Clark Howard they are being cheap. Kind of shoots down yet ANOTHER one of your theories that there are dictates from CC or Cox corp to run syndication. Sounds to me like a market by market decision, made by the local GM and PD who then must live by their decision.

I didn't single out WSB or KFI. Those are exceptions.
I did however single out Cox owned KRMG-Tulsa, which shows how cheap Cox is it can't even afford to put one local show on the air.
What a waste for a 50kw blowtorch station.

 

[Don62]

700 WLW is all local (though two hosts are national syndicated based from the station).

Mornigns Jim Scott
Mid-days Mike McConnel (syndicated though)
Mid afternoons: Bill Cunningham
Afternoons: Gary Burbank
6-9p: Sports Talk
9p-12mid: Scott Sloan
Overnights: America's Trucking Network w/Steve Sommers

And an all local news team (though it has been downsized the last couple of years) Oh ya, Clear Channel owns this station too.

That station appears to be run well.
It doesn't rely on the crutches of having to have Rush or the ninkompoop Hannity.
I didn't say ALL Cheap Channel stations are nearly automated. I just pointed out a couple of major market ones that CC has practically destroyed.

 

[archerlistener]

I'm sort of new to the talk-radio experience. However, my local talk AM network, WILK, just within the last two weeks dropped Hannity and O'Reilly (which made me happy) and replaced it with a local talker, named Corbett. He was once a newspaper journalist, and he seems to know how to frame the issues concerning local politics. The political landscape around here is a plentiful garden of issues for local talkers to pick and choose from.

In addition to the programming switch, they've also begun broadcasting on an FM simulcast. I don't know if they're bucking the trends that seem to be taking place in other markets, but it could prove successful. Also, NePA has always been it's own little niche. Quite frankly, we do things a bit differently 'round here.

So, at least in my area, I doubt local talk radio would be coming to an end, anytime soon.

 

[Don62]

When you can flip the net key and make MORE money than with a couple of paid (sometimes drug or alcohol infested) employees - LOTS of them in radio) who want a paycheck (imagine that!), insurance, vacation, sick days, a Christmas party, and retirement bene's - (and potentially give YOU lawsuits for what he says) and then - still MOAN about how "unfair you are" .....And the only people who kvetch about "using the bird" are radio geeks" THAT COULD BE WHY, you think?

Explain to me how any of this is a problem to Crap Channel or Cox or Cumulus?
So what. Employee management comes with running any business.

Sounds like some generatlizations here.

So the "mom and pop" CC can't afford to pay its employees? CC doesn't know how to manage employees? They're not satisfied being the radio station monopolists?

I think CC deliberately wants to destroy radio. I don't know if it's incompetence or by design. But look at its actions.

In Columbus, Ohio, for example, (widely reported online) the suits pulled liberal programming like Ed Schultz and Randi Rhodes. CC blathered that "the liberal progamming didn't garner enough ratings."
Right. Tell us another one.

What did CC in its infinite wisdom replace AM 1230 with? Laura Ingram. Boortz. Savage. Humpheries, et al.
How did that unique and creative lineup do? It gained even fewer listeners than the liberal hosts. I think I read not even half.

Did CC- cheapskate that it is - try to improve the station like reverting to the more popular liberal hosts? Nope. They kept the loser conservative hosts because "CC didn't want any other station to air them."

So much for concern about profit. [size=10pt]All this talk of making money is bunck.[/size]

You kiss CC's a-- and you end up on the short side.

It doesn't work on a date to be cheap and it doesn't work in broadcasting.
Look how bland, homogenious and mediocre radio is these days.

 

[hammondo]

Don asks; Explain to me how any of this is a problem to Crap Channel or Cox or Cumulus?

I understand their money situation is different - but those managers have people upstairs crabbing at them about expenses, too. I'm familiar with a Supermarket chain who has at least 100 stores, 10 of which gross a million dollars a day in a single department (produce)- who are TIGHTER with a buck than any company I've ever seen.

I believe that "All this talk about "money is bunk - IS BUNK. Who is paying the sales people's higher gas expenses? Need to cut something to make up for that. Even big companies cut. When I worked for Group W that's all they did was cut. Wait til Mr. Zell gets a hold of the Tribune Company. Then, mark my words; "you won't recognize WGN."

Company size matters little -only that something is cut. Meanwhile, Don, I guess everyone but YOU is conspiring to destroy radio.

However, you are correct about "cheap dates." So far, Jewelry and wine have given me nearly 30 years of marriage (and 2 kids). Tony Soprano bought his wife a watch (to make peace after a fight) in a recent episode, and Don Rickles new book has a chapter about this subject, too.

 

[Don62]

That's a cheap shot.
CC is wrecking radio. Read my Columbus, Ohio, post. It isn't only about money, apparently.

I didn't realize CC pleads for poverty.
If they can't take the heat, they shouldn't be in radio.

And the industry would likely be better.

At least for those who want an on-air career or listeners who don't like boring and mediocre radio.

 

[hammondo]

"Cheap shot?" How do you know what I paid for that shot?" I thought it was free. We should cut out the shots - even the cheap ones. THAT could pay for a local announcer.

Don said; "At least for those who want an on-air career "

WOW! Not a manager, are you, Don? SINCE WHEN does the EMPLOYER CARE about YOUR career? You come to work to fill MY open position, not because "YOU want to play talk show host." Those days died in my dad's generation.

Don said; "If they (CC) can't take the heat, they shouldn't be in radio."

Don, CC is NOT in business to reflect YOUR (high) standards, but to (here we go again) be PROFITABLE.

 

[Don62]

Don said; "At least for those who want an on-air career "

SINCE WHEN does the EMPLOYER CARE about that? You come to work to fill MY open position, not because "YOUwant to play talk show host."

Don said; "If they can't take the heat, they shouldn't be in radio."

Don, CC is NOT in business to reflect YOUR (high) standards, but to (here we go again) be PROFITABLE.

So business is only about someone's personal greed?

Is that what an FCC station license grants?

I guess radio - as a career -- is indeed dead. It's only about money.

Not about public service. That's much less important.

Not about rational programming.

Since it's only about money, let's run Howard Stern and run expletive-riddled music all day. That would certainly make a lot of money.

In the future, we may be able to run the stations with slaves imported from China or Meixco. (Most of our manufacturing is done that way). That will make you a boatload of money, because money is the only thing of importance.

-Not civic service.
-Not about emergency weather alerts.
-Not about important local and national news.
-Not about supporting education
-Not about supporting the United Way or other important causes
-Not about helping people with careers.
-Not about tuition reimbursement.
-Not about support of community police and fire departments.

(All legitimate benefits of business). Would that be right?

So you're saying you only got into radio to be fat and rich? To hell with anything else?

No wonder radio sucks.

 

[hammondo]

CERTAINLY NOT ME - but Don said; Since it's only about money, let's run Howard Stern and run expletive-riddled music all day. That would certainly make a lot of money.

Nope. Never touch the stuff.

So business is only about someone's personal greed?
Is that what an FCC station license grants?

My wife and friends would tell you that GREED is not part of my character. A license grants financial SUCCESS if you have the know-how. Some licencees struggle. The previous owner of the first station I bought was a crook. I gave "make-goods" to most of my customers for a YEAR. That's part of the risk of businuess. I'm a SURVIVOR.

You may feel an expense is necessary, and I don't. PLEASE - Buy your station and RISK (as I did). Nobody is stopping you.

I hired no slaves from anywhere. We had willing "people paying their dues" from broadcasting schools. In college, I did that for as while, myself.

You can get a telephone book for the complete list of "dead careers - about the money."

YOU said; Not civic service. Not support of education...Would that be right?

Civic service? Do you mean donating money and time to local non-profits? Sure. That's part of your civic responsibility. It had no bearing on my radio license. I enjoy giving. If I were a funeral director (as I once was) I still did that. My wife is a department manager in a large business. She gives, too.

I wonder if you are aware that (even) the Jerry Lewis telethon PAYS for time on most of their tv network? Believe me, WGN WOULD NEVER give it away." Until this past week (when I gleefully sold) I was a
Tribune stockholder for close to 40 years. They give to lots of causes (not Jerry) through their foundation. I give as well, in a tax beneficial way, as they do.

Don't be sad. I'm really not very fat, yet. Sorry I don't meet your standards. I've been very blessed to do well in a few businesses. Lot's of people do better than me. THEY earned it, as I have. If you KNOW HOW as you say you do, BUY a statin, and see how "easy" it is.

Radio is a much different business than it was in 1973 when I bought a little fm - and in 1985 when I sold 3 fm's and an am and a few construction permits. My timing was great. The guy I sold to has 5 more radio competitors than I had.

Faith in God, and good timing and guts are more important than anything.