even harris says traditional broadcast days are numbered

[tankedsecondchance]

Im surprised they put that in print they go on to say its all about wifi and wimax......ouch

http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Letters/CES_Jan_2007.htm

[quoteThe term "convergence" was used a number of years ago and has been over used. But today, it appears that we are really heading for convergence because there will be so many ways for a program producer to deliver content to a consumer, and what's coming up is certainly a violation of the tradition we have seen in the past. Particularly television and later, radio transmitters are going to become less relevant and IP connectivity more common each day forward as large Wi-Fi and Wi-Max rollouts occur. ][/quote]


HARRIS CORP
Sr. Manager
Marketing Communications and Public Radio Initiatives
Radio Business Unit - Broadcast Communications Division
300 Klispie Drive
Punta Gorda, FL 33950

 

[700WLW]

This is an interesting quote, from the article:

"One more thing about HD Radio which most people don't know about. It's called conditional access. Just like Cable TV and Satellite can sell you pay-per-view or specific tiers of channels, HD Radio can lock out a channel from reception unless you are subscribed. We saw a live demo of this in the iBiquity booth, provided by NDS. The first test of this will be with the Radio Reading Service in Tampa Florida over WUSF-FM, the NPR station."

You can bet, this is going to happen - Ramsey is correct, in that HD Radio will forever be in lock-step, with Satellite Radio, and go nowhere (and, let's no forget about the eventual commercials on the HD channels).

HD Radio - full of surprises !

 

[dbdigital]

This is an interesting quote, from the article:

"One more thing about HD Radio which most people don't know about. It's called conditional access. Just like Cable TV and Satellite can sell you pay-per-view or specific tiers of channels, HD Radio can lock out a channel from reception unless you are subscribed. We saw a live demo of this in the iBiquity booth, provided by NDS. The first test of this will be with the Radio Reading Service in Tampa Florida over WUSF-FM, the NPR station."

You can bet, this is going to happen - Ramsey is correct, in that HD Radio will forever be in lock-step, with Satellite Radio, and go nowhere (and, let's no forget about the eventual commercials on the HD channels).

HD Radio - full of surprises !

I noticed that point as well. Of course, the 'pay-per-listen' aspect of HD Radio was first speculated on in this forum nearly two years ago (inspite of what the "other" forum says, I think most of the posters here are a savvy bunch).

What is worth pointing out, however, is that according to recent studies most young people are used to getting their content free. So couple that with fewer young people listening to radio and it doesn't seem likely terrestrial broadcasters will be making much money from a subscription service. Of course, if the broadcast can also be recorded and listened to later on an iPod or captured on a device like this, http://www.popcatcher.com/index2.html, then maybe it might be a profitable model. Of course, people are doing that now with internet radio and using software like StreamRipper.

db

 

[Mike Walker]

If subscription ability is built into HD Radio (first I've heard of it!) trust me...I've been around commercial radio my entire life. Nobody...and I mean NOBODY plans on charging money for the additional content. That would be f#ing stupid! Terrestrial radio is advertising supported (and/or listener supported in the case of public radio). Stations are doing just fine with that model, thank you very much. WE in terrestrial radio aren't missing any meals!

So why is it "in there"? Well someone somewhere might want to offer (for instance) a background music service for restaurants and offices (as WKBC FM, North Wilkesboro NC used to do when I worked there back in the 70s). Rather than rent SCA receivers to listeners (they're available commercially now anyhow...not so in the 70s!), this would allow stations to offer this service using over the counter equipment...like a 100/200 dollar HD Radio from "The Shack". It's like a Timex watch...if it breaks, throw it away and get a new one. If subscriptions are ever used, my guess would be that they would be used for things like that. Actually not such a bad idea! It's illegal to use commercial radio as background music in a public place without paying ascap/bmi licensing. A subscription model would take care of that.

 

[700WLW]

If subscription ability is built into HD Radio (first I've heard of it!) trust me...I've been around commercial radio my entire life. Nobody...and I mean NOBODY plans on charging money for the additional content. That would be f#ing stupid! Terrestrial radio is advertising supported (and/or listener supported in the case of public radio).

Prove it ! Since the subscription capability has already been demonstrated, you can bet, it will eventually happen - just as was promised, that there would be no commercials on the HD channels, then we heard broadcasters have plans to add advertisements, after 18 months. Ramsey is correct, in that HD Radio, will always move lock-step with Satellite Radio, which has gone nowhere !

 

[Chuck]

Actually, the younger demographic does not seem to be "subscription-phobic" like their parents. With the Internet, satellite radio & TV as well as cell phones, they are fairly well accustomed to paying as they go and don't seem to think it is unusual. They've never known a different reality. Since HD radio seems to be aimed at the 12-35 demographic, a pay HD service is not very hard to imagine.

It's us old farts who won't go along for the ride. That's OK with most of broadcasting as we know it. They have a hard time selling the over 40 demo anyway, so it is of little consequence if we like it or not.

The problem with this scenario is most people under 35 people are heavily influenced by the many other electronic diversions they have in their lives. Just try to find a 15 year old who doesn’t spend half his (or her) day either on the Internet, text messaging friends, listening to an iPod, or playing video games. Usually they are doing a two or more at the same time. Radio needs to do something to catch their attention, but I have serious doubts that HD will do that. It’s just a delivery method, and delivery isn’t the problem. As has been said many times before, the real problem is content. People will listen on a tin can and a string if they like what they hear.

Did anyone see Bill Gates on the Today show this morning? He predicted the demise of conventional broadcasting (TV in particular) within the next five years. The content will still be there but he predicted that the delivery method, and the way we receive the content will be totally different.

Hmmm.....

 

[dbdigital]

If subscription ability is built into HD Radio (first I've heard of it!) trust me...I've been around commercial radio my entire life. Nobody...and I mean NOBODY plans on charging money for the additional content. That would be f#ing stupid! Terrestrial radio is advertising supported (and/or listener supported in the case of public radio). Stations are doing just fine with that model, thank you very much. WE in terrestrial radio aren't missing any meals!

So why is it "in there"? Well someone somewhere might want to offer (for instance) a background music service for restaurants and offices (as WKBC FM, North Wilkesboro NC used to do when I worked there back in the 70s). Rather than rent SCA receivers to listeners (they're available commercially now anyhow...not so in the 70s!), this would allow stations to offer this service using over the counter equipment...like a 100/200 dollar HD Radio from "The Shack". It's like a Timex watch...if it breaks, throw it away and get a new one. If subscriptions are ever used, my guess would be that they would be used for things like that. Actually not such a bad idea! It's illegal to use commercial radio as background music in a public place without paying ascap/bmi licensing. A subscription model would take care of that.

I've forgotten about the SCA services that many FM stations offer. Yes, a subscription HD2 or 3 stream could be a viable replacement for that service.

It's also possible for an HD2 or 3 channel to be offered on a time lease arrangement or to a displaced LPFM.

db

 

[SUPERCASTER]

If subscription ability is built into HD Radio (first I've heard of it!) trust me...I've been around commercial radio my entire life. Nobody...and I mean NOBODY plans on charging money for the additional content. That would be f#ing stupid! Terrestrial radio is advertising supported (and/or listener supported in the case of public radio). Stations are doing just fine with that model, thank you very much. WE in terrestrial radio aren't missing any meals!

So why is it "in there"? Well someone somewhere might want to offer (for instance) a background music service for restaurants and offices (as WKBC FM, North Wilkesboro NC used to do when I worked there back in the 70s). Rather than rent SCA receivers to listeners (they're available commercially now anyhow...not so in the 70s!), this would allow stations to offer this service using over the counter equipment...like a 100/200 dollar HD Radio from "The Shack". It's like a Timex watch...if it breaks, throw it away and get a new one. If subscriptions are ever used, my guess would be that they would be used for things like that. Actually not such a bad idea! It's illegal to use commercial radio as background music in a public place without paying ascap/bmi licensing. A subscription model would take care of that.

I've forgotten about the SCA services that many FM stations offer. Yes, a subscription HD2 or 3 stream could be a viable replacement for that service.

It's also possible for an HD2 or 3 channel to be offered on a time lease arrangement or to a displaced LPFM.

db

Why not just go with FMeXtra? www.dreinc.com FMeXtra is digital, has the same fidelity as HD, plus all the digital capabilities of HD and SCA without the expense, maintenance, power consumption, complexity, and especially without all that iNiquitous buzz on adjacent channels?

 

[dbdigital]

If subscription ability is built into HD Radio (first I've heard of it!) trust me...I've been around commercial radio my entire life. Nobody...and I mean NOBODY plans on charging money for the additional content. That would be f#ing stupid! Terrestrial radio is advertising supported (and/or listener supported in the case of public radio). Stations are doing just fine with that model, thank you very much. WE in terrestrial radio aren't missing any meals!

So why is it "in there"? Well someone somewhere might want to offer (for instance) a background music service for restaurants and offices (as WKBC FM, North Wilkesboro NC used to do when I worked there back in the 70s). Rather than rent SCA receivers to listeners (they're available commercially now anyhow...not so in the 70s!), this would allow stations to offer this service using over the counter equipment...like a 100/200 dollar HD Radio from "The Shack". It's like a Timex watch...if it breaks, throw it away and get a new one. If subscriptions are ever used, my guess would be that they would be used for things like that. Actually not such a bad idea! It's illegal to use commercial radio as background music in a public place without paying ascap/bmi licensing. A subscription model would take care of that.

I've forgotten about the SCA services that many FM stations offer. Yes, a subscription HD2 or 3 stream could be a viable replacement for that service.

It's also possible for an HD2 or 3 channel to be offered on a time lease arrangement or to a displaced LPFM.

db

Why not just go with FMeXtra? www.dreinc.com FMeXtra is digital, has the same fidelity as HD, plus all the digital capabilities of HD and SCA without the expense, maintenance, power consumption, complexity, and especially without all that iNiquitous buzz on adjacent channels?

Absolutely. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the Oslo, Norway test. It would be great to see them adopt FMeXtra as their digital standard. So far, Sweden has not committed to a standard but I'm sure they're watching what their neighbor is doing in this regard. I wonder what Denmark is doing for a digital FM standard? It would certainly be a strange twist if all the Nordic countries adopted FMeXtra.

db

 

[vsa]

Chuck wrote: "Did anyone see Bill Gates on the Today show this morning?  He predicted the demise of conventional broadcasting (TV in particular) within the next five years.  The content will still be there but he predicted that the delivery method, and the way we receive the content will be totally different."

Thanks for the heads-up. I went to: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032633/  and watched the Today Show interview on-demand. Yes he talked about how television delivered over the Internet will change how we watch TV. That implies "radio" will also never be the same. And I just don't see how HD radio can compete in that future. Anemic signal in a limited geographic area, limited bandwidth and single-purpose hardware being required are amomg the handicaps HD radio must live or die with. At least analog radio is ubiquitous. Strong and unique content can keep the medium in-demand for quite some time as it extends its reach via new commonly-used technologies.

 

[Mike Walker]

Yeah...later radio transmitters may become less relevant. "Less relevant" means "dead", "days or numbered", etc. And "snow flurries" means "deadly blizzard". "Munchies" means "searing hunger". "Cold/sniffles" means "life ending virus".

If the text doesn't actually say what your topic claims it does, why should anyone take you seriously? What Harris actually said was that methods of program delivery will become even more diverse in the future. STOP THE PRESSES, this is BIG news!

 

[700WLW]

Yeah...later radio transmitters may become less relevant. "Less relevant" means "dead", "days or numbered", etc. And "snow flurries" means "deadly blizzard". "Munchies" means "searing hunger". "Cold/sniffles" means "life ending virus".

If the text doesn't actually say what your topic claims it does, why should anyone take you seriously? What Harris actually said was that methods of program delivery will become even more diverse in the future. STOP THE PRESSES, this is BIG news!

JERRY DEL COLLIANO would disagree with you:

"How To Do An Intervention On Radio"

"And last, but not least (as the old trite phrase goes) the folly of HD Radio. I say folly because HD radio as a savior for the medium is a joke. As an engineering enhancement it's not a bad upgrade, but it won't save radio from itself. One reason is because few people care about it. Terrestrial radio dragged its feet on this for years and now its too late. But don't be guilty. Today's consumers like convenience, fresh innovative programming -- not fidelity. Just watch Gen Y listen to the Internet on their puny computer speakers or enjoy their highly-compressed iPods with low tech ear buds."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-to-do-intervention-on-radio.html

 

[Mike Walker]

I haven't heard ANYONE who's actually in radio claim that HD is a "savior". That's silly. Only programming can destroy, or save radio. Color didn't "save" movies, or (later) tv. Widescreen didn't "save" movies, nor did stereo sound...later surround sound, digital, and discrete surround, or any technical advancement. Windex doesn't "save" a sunny day. But properly applied, it can sure help you appreciate it more.

That's all technical improvements are...a "cleaner window" to the original sound (or picture). An augmentation. That's it. Radio is programming-driven. So claiming that HD isn't a "savior" is quite silly...as I've not heard anyone actually IN radio claim that it is!

Radio doesn't need saving. It DOES need IMPROVEMENT. HD is just that. But just as I'd rather watch, say, CSI Miami on a black and white portable than American Idol on a 1080p front projector (and anyone who watches CSI Miami knows how important color is!), I'd rather listen to great programming on a tabletop portable than crap on the finest component system. Of course, great programming AND great fidelity are the best combination!

You might as well claim in banner letters "TOAST ISN'T SAVIOR OF AMERICANS!" Who the hell said it was? But with butter and strawberry jelly, it's a pretty tasty "augmentation" to breakfast!

 

[R.F. Burns]

Serious question here. If radio days are numbered as has been stated, which would indicate that radio as a business must do something in an atttempt to survive and it must be done now, what is the reason that you are against the implimentation of Ibiquity's HD system? If you work in the industry, how will HD effect you? In other words is it you as a small station employee who feels that you will be edged out due to your stations already limited coverage? Are you an AM stereo fan who believes that analogue AM stereo is the best way to go and that under ideal conditions and with the right equipment analogue AM provides the best possible sound. Do you work for one of Ibiquity's competitors? Is it you the DXer, who feels that whether radio survives or not isn't the issue. The issue to you is whether you can pursue your hobby as you have in the past? Or are you working for one of radios other competitors, be it either satellite company or a internet broadcaster and you can't wait for radio to go off the air so that you'll finally be on an equal level with those station owners and you'll be more popular then what they broadcast, if given the chance. If you are pro HD the same goes for you. Do you work for Ibiquity or one of the major owners who are in bed with Ibiquity? Honesty would go a long way to resolve the friction that occurs in here when the two opposite sides (Anti HD Pro HD) come into contact.

 

[tankedsecondchance]

boy that sums it up pretty well, Imho ..........within five years

The landscape of communications is changing very rapidly, and I predict based on what we see at CES, that there will be major shifts in how people use radio, TV, telephone and the Internet over the next five years. The term "convergence" was used a number of years ago and has been over used. But today, it appears that we are really heading for convergence because there will be so many ways for a program producer to deliver content to a consumer, and what's coming up is certainly a violation of the tradition we have seen in the past. Particularly television and later, radio transmitters are going to become less relevant and IP

 

[R.F. Burns]

Excuse me please, what does the supposed demise of over the air broadcast television and radio have to do with HD radio technology?

 

[700WLW]

I haven't heard ANYONE who's actually in radio claim that HD is a "savior". That's silly. Only programming can destroy, or save radio. Color didn't "save" movies, or (later) tv. Widescreen didn't "save" movies, nor did stereo sound...later surround sound, digital, and discrete surround, or any technical advancement. Windex doesn't "save" a sunny day. But properly applied, it can sure help you appreciate it more.

That's all technical improvements are...a "cleaner window" to the original sound (or picture). An augmentation. That's it. Radio is programming-driven. So claiming that HD isn't a "savior" is quite silly...as I've not heard anyone actually IN radio claim that it is!

Radio doesn't need saving. It DOES need IMPROVEMENT. HD is just that. But just as I'd rather watch, say, CSI Miami on a black and white portable than American Idol on a 1080p front projector (and anyone who watches CSI Miami knows how important color is!), I'd rather listen to great programming on a tabletop portable than crap on the finest component system. Of course, great programming AND great fidelity are the best combination!

You might as well claim in banner letters "TOAST ISN'T SAVIOR OF AMERICANS!" Who the hell said it was? But with butter and strawberry jelly, it's a pretty tasty "augmentation" to breakfast!

What, are you babbling about ? Many consumers, would disagree with you on the supposed "CD quality" sound, which no one cares about, anyway. Well, you and other pro-IBOC'ers sure act, as if HD Radio will be the great savior - looks, as if the experts, including Ramsey, disagree with you. HD Radio, as the big savior, is exactly what the HD Radio Cartel is banking-on (remember, they are spending $500,000,000 to promote this junk technology). Consumers do not have problems, with the existing analog broadcast bands: HD Radio - a solution, in search of a problem.

 

[R.F. Burns]

"What are you babbling about ? Many consumers, would disagree with you on the supposed "CD quality" sound, which no one cares about, anyway. Well, you and other pro-IBOC'ers sure act, as if HD Radio will be the great savior - looks, as if the experts, including Ramsey, disagree with you. HD Radio, as the big savior, is exactly what the HD Radio Cartel is banking-on (remember, they are spending $500,000,000 to promote this junk technology)."


And again as so many others have pointed out, it's this kind of insulting language filled with invectives which causes the discussions to degrade and end up in shouting matches. Moving an otherwise worthy discussion to another thread in the take it outside room isn't really the answer because it only gives those who seek to limit adult discussions what it is they want. By the way, I will ask you a question. Where did I say that HD radio would save radio? Do you reaad what others have written or are you reading minds? How do you know I'm pro HD? You assume because I don't blast the technology and throw around insults that I am pro HD. That sir is quite an assumption and you know what the Oscar Madison from the Odd Couple once said about assumptions,

 

[700WLW]

"What are you babbling about ? Many consumers, would disagree with you on the supposed "CD quality" sound, which no one cares about, anyway. Well, you and other pro-IBOC'ers sure act, as if HD Radio will be the great savior - looks, as if the experts, including Ramsey, disagree with you. HD Radio, as the big savior, is exactly what the HD Radio Cartel is banking-on (remember, they are spending $500,000,000 to promote this junk technology)."


And again as so many others have pointed out, it's this kind of insulting language filled with invectives which causes the discussions to degrade and end up in shouting matches. Moving an otherwise worth discussion to another thread in the take it outside room isn't really the answer because it only gives those who seek to limit adult discussions what it is they want.

Oh, this is nothing, compared to what it used to be like. Most of his posts, contain this type of nonsense - it is called, obfuscating the original issue.

 

[R.F. Burns]

"What are you babbling about ? Many consumers, would disagree with you on the supposed "CD quality" sound, which no one cares about, anyway. Well, you and other pro-IBOC'ers sure act, as if HD Radio will be the great savior - looks, as if the experts, including Ramsey, disagree with you. HD Radio, as the big savior, is exactly what the HD Radio Cartel is banking-on (remember, they are spending $500,000,000 to promote this junk technology)."


And again as so many others have pointed out, it's this kind of insulting language filled with invectives which causes the discussions to degrade and end up in shouting matches. Moving an otherwise worth discussion to another thread in the take it outside room isn't really the answer because it only gives those who seek to limit adult discussions what it is they want.

Oh, this is nothing, compared to what it used to be like. Most of his posts, contain this type of nonsense - it is called, obfuscating the original issue.

Most of my posts? Sir, please grow up. This is my third or fourth post on this board. The other thread I've participated in was about amplifiers to improve reception.