Ex-CBS-FM-MD Slams The New CBS-FM

[davideduardo]

lalumia should have said "the biggest competitive Top 40 station in the world in the 60s." Of course Radios Luxembourg and Caroline had big audiences - they were in artificially controlled (government-run) markets. Had real competition been allowed (essentially what the pirates were achieving), there would have been more choices and the audiences for the best stations would have been WABC-sized.

There were multiple pirates (Caroline, Radio London, etc. on ships and on old sea platforms) as well as legit Luxembourg. How many Top 40's did the New York metro have? Over parts of te 60's, there were a number of them, WMCA, WINS, WMGM but at any one time, no more than SE England and the London area had.

 

[murphmac]

I have to try to be objective. I'm in my 50's have worked in radio for many years and don't believe that the music that started it all for Rock and Roll should just "go away." If CBS FM is not playing the greats from the sixties and late 50's then some other station should. Look at the vast wasteland in NY Radio!! Look at all the wasted "AM" space. Certainly one of these stations could play oldies (dare I say that word??) from the 50's and 60's. Of course, it wouldn't sweep in the ratings but it would be a viable alternative to the junk on AM. I run three internet stations. One plays oldies from the 50's 60's 70's and early 80's. The audience has said that they do like the variety. I am not programming to children. There are lots of us over 40 and we are still alive!!! Program Directors today rely too much on consultants and are do not see the whole picture. I realize that it's all about $$$$$ but it's really too bad. It certainly has ruined radio!!

Jim Murphy
Edgewater Radio
www.live365.com/stations/theedge1630

Constant Country KRS
www.live365.com/stations.constantcountry89

Movin Easy Net Radio

www.live365.com/stations/movineasyradio

 

[DToTheJ]

I am not programming to children...

But of course - that's what Radio Disney is for. :

 

[InSearchOfGear]

I have to try to be objective. I'm in my 50's have worked in radio for many years and don't believe that the music that started it all for Rock and Roll should just "go away." If CBS FM is not playing the greats from the sixties and late 50's then some other station should. Look at the vast wasteland in NY Radio!! Look at all the wasted "AM" space. Certainly one of these stations could play oldies (dare I say that word??) from the 50's and 60's. Of course, it wouldn't sweep in the ratings but it would be a viable alternative to the junk on AM. I run three internet stations. One plays oldies from the 50's 60's 70's and early 80's. The audience has said that they do like the variety. I am not programming to children. There are lots of us over 40 and we are still alive!!! Program Directors today rely too much on consultants and are do not see the whole picture. I realize that it's all about $$$$$ but it's really too bad. It certainly has ruined radio!!

Jim Murphy
Edgewater Radio
www.live365.com/stations/theedge1630

Constant Country KRS
www.live365.com/stations.constantcountry89

Movin Easy Net Radio

www.live365.com/stations/movineasyradio

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The music should not, and never will go away. It will be loved by many future generations. Is it a viable radio format now? In my opinion, the answer is now. As a feature on a properly focused oldies stations of today? Absolutely. As an online stream with the potential to eventually reach millions? Certainly. As a local terrestrial format? Nope.

 

[oldies76]

I have to try to be objective. I'm in my 50's have worked in radio for many years and don't believe that the music that started it all for Rock and Roll should just "go away." If CBS FM is not playing the greats from the sixties and late 50's then some other station should. Look at the vast wasteland in NY Radio!! Look at all the wasted "AM" space. Certainly one of these stations could play oldies (dare I say that word??) from the 50's and 60's. Of course, it wouldn't sweep in the ratings but it would be a viable alternative to the junk on AM.

Agreed!

Listen to

http://www.cruisinoldies950.com/

A great example of what you're looking for and what others should do!

 

[oldies76]

There are lots of us over 40 and we are still alive!!!

I realize that it's all about $$$$$ but it's really too bad. It certainly has ruined radio!!

Yeah, listen to those boring stations that only play a "select" portion from the 70's and 60's and call them the "greatest hits on earth".

 

[davideduardo]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The music should not, and never will go away. It will be loved by many future generations. Is it a viable radio format now? In my opinion, the answer is now. As a feature on a properly focused oldies stations of today? Absolutely. As an online stream with the potential to eventually reach millions? Certainly. As a local terrestrial format? Nope.

I agree that the music should not go away. Fortunately, we have listener-supported media like satellite and streaming stations to serve people who are appreciative of the 50's and early 60's era.

But I think you exaggerate the appeal of the music by saying other generations will "love" those tunes. While a few will take a liking to some or all the music of the time, most people do not develop an interest in pop music of previous generations (we can skip the reference to classical as a comeback) just as people growing up in the 60's did not in any appreciable number develop interest in big bands and the crooners of the 40's and early 50's.

 

[KFodor]

I also agree that music should not go away. However, the facts are, whether you want to believe them or not, that the music of the 50's and early 60's is incompatible
with most advertisers, who are looking for a younger audience. That's why stations are shying away from that music.

But, David makes a good point. What may no longer be usable to commercial radio, can be viable and a big audience grabber for non-commercial stations, as well as
LP-FM's. I've got one running right now in Ohio that I'm programming...it's a hybrid station playing "the greatest hits of all time" in a resort community...1950's to 1980's.
It's become very popular in town by:

1.) Playing the hits...not the stiffs and B sides (although we do have an "oh wow" category I call "The Oldies Vault".

2.) Playing more music per hour than the competition can play by limiting the number of underwriting announcements to breaks no longer than 2 1/2 minutes.

3.) Good imaging...both with jingles (done with the assistance of Ben Friedman's CD's), and good sweepers based upon my knowledge of the format.

The music can still survive. But, you can't blame radio...when the advertisers say they don't want a station that's "top heavy 55 plus". And yes...I've heard many
advertisers say it.

 

[KFodor]

There are lots of us over 40 and we are still alive!!!

I realize that it's all about $$$$$ but it's really too bad. It certainly has ruined radio!!

Yeah, listen to those boring stations that only play a "select" portion from the 70's and 60's and call them the "greatest hits on earth".

I have news for you. It's always been about $$$$$.

And, by the way, the 70's music will be next to go away. That migration has already begun.

 

[Jay Walker]

Getting old is a bummer in some respects...
I remember in 1974 when the PD of a successful medium market AM I was working decreed:
"there will be no song older than 10 years on the playlist."
As a "baby" DJ I was stunned!!!
No more "yada,yada??"
and no more "yada, yada. yada???"!!!.
As I've grown in the business, now 40 years later, I see that he was....right.

The upside, a lot of the music you dislike today will be gone in ten years.

Happy Holidays

 

[oldies76]

I have news for you. It's always been about $$$$$.


And, by the way, the 70's music will be next to go away. That migration has already begun.

Who cares....as long as I still own them on CD's and MP3, I could care less what radio does.

I have over 1000 original songs just from the 1970-79 time period. The people I play them to are very excited to hear them and really enjoy the memories. If radio does what you predict, then it's the listeners loss and radio will collapse as a medium. By then, our generation will be long gone and the people then will have their own set of "oldies" to listen to: the golden hits of 2009.....

I rarely ever rely on radio anymore to hear my favorites. Except for a select few, like CBS-FM and some local AM stations, the rest is something to be desired.

 

[oldies76]

1.) Playing the hits...not the stiffs and B sides (although we do have an "oh wow" category I call "The Oldies Vault".

Very few stations, if any, ever play B-sides (except for "I Feel the Earth Move" and some Beatles)
Many "stiffs" were huge hits in their day.....why would you not play them? Why follow mainstream radio and play the same ole same ole? Branching out and playing more songs and "rarely heard" songs would be a bonus, not a drawback.

I'd say, play them all, in some form or fashion.

 

[InSearchOfGear]

1.) Playing the hits...not the stiffs and B sides (although we do have an "oh wow" category I call "The Oldies Vault".

Very few stations, if any, ever play B-sides (except for "I Feel the Earth Move" and some Beatles)
Many "stiffs" were huge hits in their day.....why would you not play them? Why follow mainstream radio and play the same ole same ole? Branching out and playing more songs and "rarely heard" songs would be a bonus, not a drawback.

I'd say, play them all, in some form or fashion.

Gotta be careful not to get too deep or wide. that can have a polarizing effect on listeners. If it's done right, probably couldn't hurt, but the ratio of what the demo listens for and what they don't would have to be quite high. You have to deliver to people's expectations. remember. They're not as into this as we are.

 

[KevinFodor]

1.) Playing the hits...not the stiffs and B sides (although we do have an "oh wow" category I call "The Oldies Vault".

Very few stations, if any, ever play B-sides (except for "I Feel the Earth Move" and some Beatles)
Many "stiffs" were huge hits in their day.....why would you not play them? Why follow mainstream radio and play the same ole same ole? Branching out and playing more songs and "rarely heard" songs would be a bonus, not a drawback.

I'd say, play them all, in some form or fashion.

Over the years, I've seen about 1000-1500 songs that can be played in some type of oldies universe. While a title here or two not in that 1500 could possibly be argued, reality is...radio has always been programmed for "average" tastes, not that of radio geeks or oldies collectors.

Most people...even a lot of them over 50 can't sing you even the chorus of Keith's "Daylight Savings Time"...and frankly, don't care.

There are far more "average" listeners who want to hear one of their favorites, than there are of people who want to hear everything under the sun under a guise of "variety".

So...why do "variety" stations (that is, those that promote it heavily) do better in the ratings when they cut their playlists?

The road to ruin is paved with radio programmers who've already tried to "play everything". (And years ago, I was one of them.) Want call letters? E-mail me, and I can give you few...by the way, none of them are still around.

 

[KevinFodor]

I have news for you. It's always been about $$$$$.


And, by the way, the 70's music will be next to go away. That migration has already begun.

Who cares....as long as I still own them on CD's and MP3, I could care less what radio does.

I have over 1000 original songs just from the 1970-79 time period. The people I play them to are very excited to hear them and really enjoy the memories. If radio does what you predict, then it's the listeners loss and radio will collapse as a medium. By then, our generation will be long gone and the people then will have their own set of "oldies" to listen to: the golden hits of 2009.....

I rarely ever rely on radio anymore to hear my favorites. Except for a select few, like CBS-FM and some local AM stations, the rest is something to be desired.

You're right about later generations hearing the "oldies" of 2009...but radio will still be around, regardless of the platform...over the air, online, etc.

You see...a lot of these internet stations who are someone's personal i-pod may wake up someday and decide they really want to make money. So, someone will cut the playlist and find their number of hits goes up. Then, they'll advertise the station, keeping a tight playlist.

I'm running one now that's doing everything but the advertising...by itself it's gaining hundreds of additional TLH every month. And all we're doing...is playing the hits. 190-210 songs. That's it.

Eventually some people will realize that though radio has made its share of mistakes, and still does so, there's reasons radio has done the things it does. When that happens, I expect will people will go back and look at how radio gained and maintained audience and copy it.

There's radio textbooks that outline this quite well...and the theory goes all the way back to the programming pioneers...even before Bill Drake. Try and find them in your local library if you'd like.

 

[lalumia]

"People don't always know what they like,
but they sure do like what they know"..
Rick Sklar, MusicRadio 77WABC, 1970

 

[davideduardo]

There's radio textbooks that outline this quite well...and the theory goes all the way back to the programming pioneers...even before Bill Drake. Try and find them in your local library if you'd like.

Good, good point. And Drake was a heretic by the Todd Storz/Gordon McLendon standard... KHJ, with the gold library, had 200 to 300 songs. KOWH had 40 in 1951 when Top 40 was born (although the name had not been invented, the format had).

 

[davideduardo]

So...why do "variety" stations (that is, those that promote it heavily) do better in the ratings when they cut their playlists?

... because "variety" is not about quantity, but about passion. "Variety" really means "all my favorites and nothing else." That generally means a few hundred songs in adult demos and less than 100 in younger demos.

I've mentioned it before, but there is a station I have both competed with and worked with in a top 15 market that has the shortest playlist in that market, and has for the last 42 years. It is also the station that has the highest "variety" attribution by listeners. It plays hits.

 

[surfdude]

Who cares....as long as I still own them on CD's and MP3, I could care less what radio does.

Then why do you post the same repetitive message on a radio discussion board?

 

[lalumia]

"We're not in the MUSIC business.....
we're in the RADIO business..."
Rick Sklar, 1970, Music Radio 77WABC