FCC expected to adopt HD radio rules March 22nd

[R.F. Burns]

What I have proven is that the technology isn't flawed. What is flawed is the way some of the anti Iboc crowd will do anything and go as far as lie about this technology.

What part of: "it puts huge levels of RF interference on first and second adjacent frequencies" is a lie?

Well I don't know how you define huge but check out my audio sample of WADS, of whom I'm in a null of. It's second adjacent to WOR a local 50 KW IBOC station and third adjacent to WFAN another 50 KW HD station and tell me if you hear the HD interference. the station is approx 70 miles or more from my location by the way. Certainly not a local station in the NY metro market.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

R. F. Burns said:

What I have proven is that the technology isn't flawed.

You have "proven" nothing of the kind. Posting a few selected audio files from your location can not prove that HD Radio does not cause interference, nor that HD is the best thing since the discovery of fire.
Red Fish (herrings) Burns again.

 

[paul vincent zecchino]

Doesn't Supercaster make a fine point? We're expected to believe that noise flung down the line 'proves' HD doesn't interfere? Why does HDBund believe al Americans to be gullible morons with unlimited resources to squander on cheeszy HD stooge-radio? Hmmm?

If we're as dumb as HD Cheerleaders treat us, they how did we acquire all the personal wealth they covet, along all rights to our public airwaves?

Isn't that the problem with StoogeKasters? They have an answer for everything, even when no one questions them. If HD radios were in demand, wouldn't Cheerleaders be busy loading delivery trucks rather than vomiting their frustrations all over chat boards?

Yes, we realize they spend time coercing broadcast engineers into silence and arm-twisting failing retailers into carrying HD stooge-radios. But they're mostly telling us our business by way of insulting our intelligence.

Is that how Apple sells iPods?

Where do you find HD stooge-radios? Simple, just look beneath the display tables, where Savvy sales people hide them. They respect their customers and prefer to sell them items that please them. They know that high cost FrankenBLOC stooge-radios are frequently returned by disappointed customers.

No matter, the poodle FCC will allow these grifters to plop digital dog-doot all over our airwaves and everyone will make money. Right?

Whatever they make, it will be at the expense of listener good will.

BigKorpseorate KronyKasters pimp off stooge-radios to grab more cash and seize spectrum. Don't you find it pitiful that these learned men know the cost of everything -

and the value of nothing?


Why is it that they always must prove their point? A good product proves itself.

Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
20 March, 2007

 

[R.F. Burns]

Doesn't Supercaster make a fine point? We're expected to believe that noise flung down the line 'proves' HD doesn't interfere? Why does HDBund believe al Americans to be gullible morons with unlimited resources to squander on cheeszy HD stooge-radio? Hmmm?

If we're as dumb as HD Cheerleaders treat us, they how did we acquire all the personal wealth they covet, along all rights to our public airwaves?

Isn't that the problem with StoogeKasters? They have an answer for everything, even when no one questions them. If HD radios were in demand, wouldn't Cheerleaders be busy loading delivery trucks rather than vomiting their frustrations all over chat boards?

Yes, we realize they spend time coercing broadcast engineers into silence and arm-twisting failing retailers into carrying HD stooge-radios. But they're mostly telling us our business by way of insulting our intelligence.

Is that how Apple sells iPods?

Where do you find HD stooge-radios? Simple, just look beneath the display tables, where Savvy sales people hide them. They respect their customers and prefer to sell them items that please them. They know that high cost FrankenBLOC stooge-radios are frequently returned by disappointed customers.

No matter, the poodle FCC will allow these grifters to plop digital dog-doot all over our airwaves and everyone will make money. Right?

Whatever they make, it will be at the expense of listener good will.

BigKorpseorate KronyKasters pimp off stooge-radios to grab more cash and seize spectrum. Don't you find it pitiful that these learned men know the cost of everything -

and the value of nothing?


Why is it that they always must prove their point? A good product proves itself.

Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
20 March, 2007

What are you talking about? Are you implying that my file wasn't the real thing? I proved with audio that IBOC doesn't interfere with other legally operating stations within their protected contour. I recorded a distant station operating on a second adjacent to a 50 thousand watt HD station and there was NO interference from the HD station. Spew all this nonsense you want. I've tried to keep a communications flow going on this board going as far as providing a factual demo of Iboc. I could tell you that the sky is blue and you and your ilk would tell me that the sky is orange. I believe the FCC is going to rule tomorrow. If Iboc is allowed to operate freely I'm guessing that I'l read that the war has only just begun. Go ahead and waste your time. In the end you'll learn just how irrelevent all of these complaints really are. Time to find some other way to keep yourselves occupied.

 

[amfmsw]

Surely you're kidding...right? No interference? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and suggest to you that it was possible that BOTH stations had their IBOC generators off for service when you made the recordings.

In Southern NJ, nearly the entire bottom end of the dial is gone. Interference from 580 to 730. I used to be able to listen to WHP 580 from Harrisburg AND 590 from Scranton. No more. They are now gone with the buzz bleeding from 610 WIP, 640 WWJZ, 710 WOR. Mid band is hashed from 950 WPEN and 880 WCBS

To "Prove" there is no interference to first and second adjacencies is disingeuous as best, and an insult to the readers of this board.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Surely you're kidding...right? No interference? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and suggest to you that it was possible that BOTH stations had their IBOC generators off for service when you made the recordings.

In Southern NJ, nearly the entire bottom end of the dial is gone. Interference from 580 to 730. I used to be able to listen to WHP 580 from Harrisburg AND 590 from Scranton. No more. They are now gone with the buzz bleeding from 610 WIP, 640 WWJZ, 710 WOR. Mid band is hashed from 950 WPEN and 880 WCBS

To "Prove" there is no interference to first and second adjacencies is disingeuous as best, and an insult to the readers of this board.

Sorry but you are really wrong and if you are having such serious interference problems tape them and post them for us to hear, but to basically call me a liar is more than enough to call your legitimacy into question. Why not call the stations and find out what time there anchors are on. You'll notice the same voice came out of the CBS net news that was also on the Super radio demo. What do you think, they do, split shifts! I mean Mike & the Mad Dog do afternoon drive on WFAN. This time of year IBOC is on until they are off the air. Are you accusing me of working miracles with time shift or do you really think we are stupid? C'mon now, Hannity on WABC goes off at 6 PM. IBOC is still running. WADS can not be heard after sundown when IBOC goes off. It's a daytime only station operating on 690 Khz! You guys are all the same and think if you lie often enough it will become truth. I don't know if you follow a religion but if you do you know it's a sin to lie and what my demo showed was not only wasn't I lying, but that IBOC doesn't cause the interference some in here would have us believe. Go ahead and continue to dillute yourself because after tomorrow hopefully IBOC will get FCC acceptence and all your B.S. will be proven to have no clothes like the mythical king. By the way the big lie isn't working. You can repeat your lies over and over again but that won't have any effects on what is and what isn't a fact.

 

[amfmsw]

I NEVER accused anyone of lying. Not even misresentation. The noise, however is deafening. May I suggest you have an exceptional radio receiver that is doing an exceptional job of filtering. If that is the case, then the IF section should be the new world standard. But in my factory issue Delco AM/FM car radio, the listening landscape has changed, for the worse. The same for ANY radio in my house, from tube type Zenith's to simple portables. Other than your radio, AM IBOC is not compatable with units on the market.

Oh, and I forgot to add the interference from 660 WFAN inn that noisy AM Cancer Cluster.

 

[R.F. Burns]

I NEVER accused anyone of lying. Not even misresentation. The noise, however is deafening. May I suggest you have an exceptional radio receiver that is doing an exceptional job of filtering. If that is the case, then the IF section should be the new world standard. But in my factory issue Delco AM/FM car radio, the listening landscape has changed, for the worse. The same for ANY radio in my house, from tube type Zenith's to simple portables. Other than your radio, AM IBOC is not compatable with units on the market.

Oh, and I forgot to add the interference from 660 WFAN inn that noisy AM Cancer Cluster.

"Not even misresentation"


Is this a new word? Anyway, I used a Sangean HDT-1 tuner (200$) for the HD demos and a Super radio 3 (50$) for the analog demos. Exceptional radio receiver's? I think not, however the HD radios do use DSP which greatly improves selectivity. I guess you weren't around yesterday when I promised that later this week I will take a tape recorder (Sony TCM 5000) and a microphone (EV RE 15) into my car and record the analog AM HD stations. You judge for yourself. By the way, WWJZ (640) can no be heard in NYC. Even before IBOC there is way too much RF in the air to be able to listen to that station. We're in a null of it anyway. Most of their signal feeds the Atlantic. KYW has never been listenable here in NY. our local 1050 has always made the 1060 in Philly inaudible. As a matter of fact only 1210 is audible and the signal isn't all that great up here. Same in the opposite direction. NY stations are loud and clear in hartford but here in NY during the day only WTIC puts a barely audible signal into the northern NY suburbs. In the city itself forget it. There is more competition and RF floating around here and a radio has to deal with it. I once took a walkman out to the Pocanoes of eastern PA and easily heard WHO on 1040 Khz. In NY (about 90 miles to the east) on the same radio WHO was inaudible. By the way my car is a Saturn, so might I make the assumtion that it too is a Delco radio? I will demo it in a few days, stay tuned.

 

[dbdigital]

dbdigital wrote: "Does that mean that this ruling will be open for further public comment?"

I'll let Leonard Kahn answer that question.

"They are starting all over again with comments, replies, etc., etc. etc. It will take years and then they will start it all over again. INTHE INTERIM iBOC stations violate FCC rules as mandated bt the congress and presidents, while Cam-D is perfectly legal."

http://www.wrathofkahn.org/

Yeah, it would be great if Leonard would spend less time watching and reporting on the IBOC dog and pony show and more time securing licensing deals with manufacturers for his system. Cam-D is not a situation of 'if I build it they will come.'

As it is, Cam-D is becoming less and less relevent as the digital AM race narrows to DRM and HD-R.

db

 

[R.F. Burns]

dbdigital wrote: "Does that mean that this ruling will be open for further public comment?"

I'll let Leonard Kahn answer that question.

"They are starting all over again with comments, replies, etc., etc. etc. It will take years and then they will start it all over again. INTHE INTERIM iBOC stations violate FCC rules as mandated bt the congress and presidents, while Cam-D is perfectly legal."

http://www.wrathofkahn.org/

Yeah, it would be great if Leonard would spend less time watching and reporting on the IBOC dog and pony show and more time securing licensing deals with manufacturers for his system. Cam-D is not a situation of 'if I build it they will come.'

As it is, Cam-D is becoming less and less relevent as the digital AM race narrows to DRM and HD-R.

db

And DRM is not compatible with analog requiring a seperate band. While I believe for compatibility reasons the world should all use the same standard. In the US there is no new spectrum available for DRM.

 

[amfmsw]

Yes, misresresentation misrepresents my fat finger, four thumb typing skills. Now my feelings are hurt. I'm going to my room and get news from WTIC 1080...while I still can before KYW turns on it's noise generator..er..IBOC.

 

[paul vincent zecchino]

"And it's high! Outfield is scrambling! And.....


30980.s9=zz.Glook An Unexpected Error Has Occurred in Your HD Radio.

The BIOS is Incompatible With the Present Signal. You must download iNiquity Update

409.300(s). To do this, you must call 1-800-IBLOC and have your credit card ready.

You must restart your radio to complete the process.



Do you enjoy my love offerings to HD Stooge-radios?

Then you'll enjoy today's article at www.etherzone.com/2007/zecc032007.shtml

Good health to all!

Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
20 March, 2007

 

[dbdigital]

dbdigital wrote: "Does that mean that this ruling will be open for further public comment?"

I'll let Leonard Kahn answer that question.

"They are starting all over again with comments, replies, etc., etc. etc. It will take years and then they will start it all over again. INTHE INTERIM iBOC stations violate FCC rules as mandated bt the congress and presidents, while Cam-D is perfectly legal."

http://www.wrathofkahn.org/

Yeah, it would be great if Leonard would spend less time watching and reporting on the IBOC dog and pony show and more time securing licensing deals with manufacturers for his system. Cam-D is not a situation of 'if I build it they will come.'

As it is, Cam-D is becoming less and less relevent as the digital AM race narrows to DRM and HD-R.

db

And DRM is not compatible with analog requiring a seperate band. While I believe for compatibility reasons the world should all use the same standard. In the US there is no new spectrum available for DRM.

That's not entirely true. According to the DRM Consortium's literature the DRM signal can be broadcast adjacent to a station's AM analog signal with a guard band separating them. In this scenario DRM would require a minimum of 5 kHz above or below the main channel. This would allow full bandwidth for the analog signal and even AM stereo. The DRM stream could even offer different programming.

Granted, when used this way DRM would not be in-band and on-channel but then neither is HD-Radio.

db

 

[R.F. Burns]

dbdigital wrote: "Does that mean that this ruling will be open for further public comment?"

I'll let Leonard Kahn answer that question.

"They are starting all over again with comments, replies, etc., etc. etc. It will take years and then they will start it all over again. INTHE INTERIM iBOC stations violate FCC rules as mandated bt the congress and presidents, while Cam-D is perfectly legal."

http://www.wrathofkahn.org/

Yeah, it would be great if Leonard would spend less time watching and reporting on the IBOC dog and pony show and more time securing licensing deals with manufacturers for his system. Cam-D is not a situation of 'if I build it they will come.'

As it is, Cam-D is becoming less and less relevent as the digital AM race narrows to DRM and HD-R.

db

And DRM is not compatible with analog requiring a seperate band. While I believe for compatibility reasons the world should all use the same standard. In the US there is no new spectrum available for DRM.

That's not entirely true. According to the DRM Consortium's literature the DRM signal can be broadcast adjacent to a station's AM analog signal with a guard band separating them. In this scenario DRM would require a minimum of 5 kHz above or below the main channel. This would allow full bandwidth for the analog signal and even AM stereo. The DRM stream could even offer different programming.

Granted, when used this way DRM would not be in-band and on-channel but then neither is HD-Radio.

db

I've been at discussions at our local SBE meeting which was held at the Armstrong tower in Alpine NJ by Nautel and they specifically said that DRM is not analog compatible. If you go off channel by 5 Khz you don't think you'll hear the digital transmission in your analog reception? It won't work. They tried in Japan and DRM admited it doesn't work. Sorry to disagree.

 

[stevenNOLA]

DRM is irrevelevant as it is not approved to be used in the US.

 

[Tom Wells]

"Approved?"
Approval has little to do with workability and compatibility unless approved by wisdom and experience.
We developed a lot a high standards to look up to in this country, and have devalued a good many of them as a matter of expediency.

Example concept of a slippery slope....
Well, if prostitution is good for Nevada, it's good for everywhere...we can fund schools with it!

I see a problem with some of these "expediencies".

 

[stevenNOLA]

"Approved?"
Approval has little to do with workability and compatibility unless approved by wisdom and experience.
We developed a lot a high standards to look up to in this country, and have devalued a good many of them as a matter of expediency.

Example concept of a slippery slope....
Well, if prostitution is good for Nevada, it's good for everywhere...we can fund schools with it!

I see a problem with some of these "expediencies".

First off, Tom, I have alot of respect as you have alot of 'real world' experience in the broadcast industry.

DRM may be better but it is not something even remotely on the horizon here in the US. It looks like Ibiquity's digital is here to stay, like it or not.

 

[paul vincent zecchino]

Iniquity's jammer, given air-cover as "HD Radio" by promoters and a lapdog FCC, does seem solid. Isn't HD expediency defined? It benefits few to the detriment of all others.

HD cheerleaders stink of fear. Beneath their smooth acquittals and reflexive answers for everything that mark trouble, they stink of fear. On one level, it's fear of failure. At every juncture, management chose the worst possible course and threw money like rose petals to soften their road to perdition. Now, having underestimated audience savvy and man's capacity to develop worthy alternative technologies, they're on the ropes. They need the FCC's blessing the way a drug addict needs a fix. It will not be pretty if HD stooge-radio promoters fail to gain their ends. Listener apathy and not iNiquity, may prove permanent.

On another level, doesn't their palpable fear reek of vanity unmasked? Wasn't the rotten 90s - and this writer well knows some of its twisted stewards - all about fixing what works unto destruction, and billing the public accordingly? What vanity! They protest too much, don't they? They threw money, both real and play, at a stooge-radio jammer, staked good names upon it, and live in fear of the day in which it most assuredly will mock them.

It's coming. Time and unforeseen circumstance have an uncanny way of toppling all who believe they remain forever. Literature and film are well larded with grifters high and low who inevitably reap all they've sewn. Let the FCC approve this abomination.

May BigKorpseorate KronyKasters learn the joy of consequences both commercial and legal, courtesy of an increasingly disappointed public.

Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
20 March, 2007

 

[dbdigital]

dbdigital wrote: "Does that mean that this ruling will be open for further public comment?"

I'll let Leonard Kahn answer that question.

"They are starting all over again with comments, replies, etc., etc. etc. It will take years and then they will start it all over again. INTHE INTERIM iBOC stations violate FCC rules as mandated bt the congress and presidents, while Cam-D is perfectly legal."

http://www.wrathofkahn.org/

Yeah, it would be great if Leonard would spend less time watching and reporting on the IBOC dog and pony show and more time securing licensing deals with manufacturers for his system. Cam-D is not a situation of 'if I build it they will come.'

As it is, Cam-D is becoming less and less relevent as the digital AM race narrows to DRM and HD-R.

db

And DRM is not compatible with analog requiring a seperate band. While I believe for compatibility reasons the world should all use the same standard. In the US there is no new spectrum available for DRM.

That's not entirely true. According to the DRM Consortium's literature the DRM signal can be broadcast adjacent to a station's AM analog signal with a guard band separating them. In this scenario DRM would require a minimum of 5 kHz above or below the main channel. This would allow full bandwidth for the analog signal and even AM stereo. The DRM stream could even offer different programming.

Granted, when used this way DRM would not be in-band and on-channel but then neither is HD-Radio.

db

I've been at discussions at our local SBE meeting which was held at the Armstrong tower in Alpine NJ by Nautel and they specifically said that DRM is not analog compatible. If you go off channel by 5 Khz you don't think you'll hear the digital transmission in your analog reception? It won't work. They tried in Japan and DRM admited it doesn't work. Sorry to disagree.

Uh...OK. Well I guess that makes two digital broadcasting technologies that don't work for AM. And the third is MIA.

db

 

[Tom Wells]

First off, Tom, I have alot of respect as you have alot of 'real world' experience in the broadcast industry.

DRM may be better but it is not something even remotely on the horizon here in the US. It looks like Ibiquity's digital is here to stay, like it or not.

Steve, I stayed out of the industry "eyes open" because I didn't want to suffer the current situation from a captive position.
I hope you respect the fact that as an alumnus of a very old radio engineering school, I have never departed from the role of an active
radio engineer, and have designed and built many items of RF, AF and electronic convenience.

When the FCC cancelled the 1st class license, that was enough for me to stay out of the business.

I've also received 2 US patents for an invention that involves high electron mobility and makes practical low voltage ionization.

The printing presses I diagnose and repair are far more complex than the average station.
The dollar booking on presses per hour is higher than most radio.
I have lived in the same place, where I choose to, since I left my parents.

Would I rather be in radio? Hmmmm... Only if I can own the station.

Maybe someday. Ha Ha.

Ibiquity may be permitted to tresspass on AM, but most people still understand how the public's property rights are being violated.

I chose not to make any cheap jabs at anyone, only bad engineering.
Did I ever portray myself as having any broadcast industry experience?

And I wonder why you should question my opinion with a backhanded compliment.
You aren't the one at ibiquity who decided to put data in the audio passband, are you?