• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

FCC requireing stations being maned 24/7

TomT said:
I've been in radio for over thirty years, and have never worked at a station (from market 250 to market 60) that made any money over-night.

All the ex-dj's and radio wannabes on this board may think this is a cool idea, but, as an owner of an independent FM in a market with two competing 6 station clusters, it looks like a very bad idea.

Especially since the original purpose for the 24/7 suggestion was to have someone at the station in case of an (external) emergency. For many rural stations, there will be no point in running between 10 or 11 pm and 6 AM, they will shut down. Right now, if the NWS or the primary relay station sends an actual emergency alert at 3 in the morning, it will relay automatically on my station, even though it is unmanned. If I am off the air at 3 AM no-on e will get the message.
This radio wannabe does not think it is a cool idea, I think it is a smart idea, you say that you have the NWS emergency relay at your station,
does it actually work? There are several stations that claim they have that as well, but when it comes to actually working when it is really
needed during a severe storm it's funny it does not work. 70 mph thunderstorm winds and no warnings coming on the radio. I have a weather
radio so I know exactly when there put out and maybe your station puts them out but a lot don't. By the way when radio puts something good
on at night people do listen and stations make money. This is not a 9 to 5 world anymore quite a few people work the third shift or work late
hours and just because you can't see that does mean it's not true.
 
I'm glad some of you are not teaching math! 10 bucks an hour x 40 hrs a week x 52 weeks a year is $20,800. If you add 1/3 of that ($6,933.33) it totals $27,733.33, which ain't even close to 35 k or 50k.

And lets face it - in todays radio market, some board op / xmtr babysitter is NOT going to get any benefits.

I am one of those folks opposed to the consolidation of media ownership. It has proven to be a disaster for the business.

Why should we allow a few companies to control our media? A DIVERSE media is a protection to our liberties. A non diverse media is a threat.
 
scottwmro said:
Any monkey can run a board. My 4 year old niece can operate a console and a computer.
And I've worked in this business with 54-year-olds who couldn't run a console and a computer to save their life and yet they claim over 20-plus years' experience in this racket. ::)

And now, back to the topic over most of this station. ;D
 
Kent said:
Of course, the whole issue that got all of this started, which is the Minot train derailment, is an urban legend. The stations were manned when it happened. Clear Channel used to, and probably still does, require its stations to be manned 24/7. Minot was the classic case of what happens when you have a trained monkey on duty who doesn't do his job.
How do we know if the monkey (your words) in this case was trained properly to do his job to begin with?
 
bub said:
How do we know if the monkey (your words) in this case was trained properly to do his job to begin with?

How hard is it to pick up a telephone? That's all he would have had to do! After getting the message, he should have picked up the phone if he didn't know how to send an EAS alert!
 
TomT said:
I've been in radio for over thirty years, and have never worked at a station (from market 250 to market 60) that made any money over-night.

All the ex-dj's and radio wannabes on this board may think this is a cool idea, but, as an owner of an independent FM in a market with two competing 6 station clusters, it looks like a very bad idea.

Especially since the original purpose for the 24/7 suggestion was to have someone at the station in case of an (external) emergency. For many rural stations, there will be no point in running between 10 or 11 pm and 6 AM, they will shut down. Right now, if the NWS or the primary relay station sends an actual emergency alert at 3 in the morning, it will relay automatically on my station, even though it is unmanned. If I am off the air at 3 AM no-on e will get the message.

Actually I was the music director at KWKH in Shrevport in the mid 80s when Larry Scott did the all night truckers show. THAT show made about as much money in one shift as the entire station did the rest of the day. Of course the show could be heard from Chicago to Phoenix to Florida on a good night. But it did make a ton of money...

In so many of these posts I see many of the same points about the waste the air is overnights anymore. Not only is it a good place to "learn the ropes" (I did midnite to 6 all through college at KTTS in Springfield) but it should be important because in a lot of cities people listen at 3am because they're shiftworkers or getting up to start their work day. I used to hear from these people all the time about being "left out" of station promotions (who gives away decent prizes at 2:30 in the morning - no one!) or had no jock to call to ask for a song (not that stations play requests) or get a question about a station event answered by a real person. And there's the weather or news thing...if your voicetracker is saying "partly cloudy and warm" and I'm sitting at my house with a raging thunderstorm it makes your station look undependable. Would you trust this station with hurricane info or tornado warnings?



We live in a 24/7 world...I wish radio would program like they live in the same world as their listeners more often.
 
Personally, I like to think hope is not lost and someday we'll be able to put the voicetracking era behind us.

The Commission is going to have to spell things out really clearly though. They can't simply enact rules that require a presence, they would have to enact rules that require a meaningful presence if they hope to accomplish anything.

When stations like KHKS Dallas start voicetracking middays, it's gone too far. Really, for a station like that to be voicetracking any shift is a disgrace. There's absolutely no way to argue that voicetracking is in the public interest. Back in the day, Randy Michaels would have said it provides the public with better quality talent, but if you asked any casual radio user whether they would rather have really polished and pre-recorded or a little rough and live, I'd be willing to bet most people would opt for the latter.

Not that you would have to settle for rough talent. A lot of great jocks lost their jobs to voicetracking for purely financial reasons.
 
LTT said:
Actually I was the music director at KWKH in Shrevport in the mid 80s when Larry Scott did the all night truckers show. THAT show made about as much money in one shift as the entire station did the rest of the day. Of course the show could be heard from Chicago to Phoenix to Florida on a good night. But it did make a ton of money...

Keep in mind that Great Empire nickeled-and-dimed nearly everything on their stations. This is how they managed to make money in the overnights. They had sponsorships for pretty much everything they could sell. They had some cheap spots that were a constant source of revenue that targetted smaller businesses. They billed more in one year in Springfield, MO than any station in Tulsa, OK. So, why didn't more people try to copy the strategy? Simply put, it wasn't successful everywhere. It was a disaster in Denver and fared poorly in Tulsa. The stations began to sound more and more cluttered, and, as time went on, people got used to the more music approaches of competing stations like KXKT in Omaha and KRMD/KITT in Shreveport. Then, those stations began to lose audience, too. Notice that WOW is completely gone, and KWKH has had several formats over the last 10 years. Although it's back to doing classic country, it doesn't resemble the old KWKH much to me. I doubt trying such a strategy in Houston would be successful.

In so many of these posts I see many of the same points about the waste the air is overnights anymore. Not only is it a good place to "learn the ropes" (I did midnite to 6 all through college at KTTS in Springfield) but it should be important because in a lot of cities people listen at 3am because they're shiftworkers or getting up to start their work day. I used to hear from these people all the time about being "left out" of station promotions (who gives away decent prizes at 2:30 in the morning - no one!) or had no jock to call to ask for a song (not that stations play requests) or get a question about a station event answered by a real person.

"You can always reach a ranch hand at the McDonald's Ranch Line, 865-8765, at the Radio Ranch KTTS." Notice how they even sold the rights to their request line? Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge the people at Great Empire for doing what they could to make money. I just don't think the strategy is right everywhere.
 
Some have tragically missed the point. Whether there was one person to run all six stations in Minot or a trained monkey trying to pass for one the fact is the pulbic was ill served.

Actually...the public wasn't served at all.

I'm guessing if there was one person there he/she was busy watching the TV and it was too much trouble ...or worse...was told by management **not** to answer the phone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28WWLN_IdeaLab.t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine&oref=slogin
 
mrtexmex2007 said:
Actually this law has been on for a while. Back then when there was 87.9 fm Radio Poder a Christian station I might add. When they were on air they got shut down by the FCC for not having somebody in the station at night hours.

87.9 would have been a pirate...87.9 is never assigned to any station except in only 3 cases...none in Houston and NONE in Texas.....They shut down for being illegal probably...There is no rule for having anyone at the station after normal business hours (main studio rules only require certain people be present in NORMAL business hours...nothing else)
 
Kent said:
Of course, the whole issue that got all of this started, which is the Minot train derailment, is an urban legend. The stations were manned when it happened. Clear Channel used to, and probably still does, require its stations to be manned 24/7. Minot was the classic case of what happens when you have a trained monkey on duty who doesn't do his job.

EXCUSE me but you obviously never worked for Cheap Channel..when their Prophet automation system was 1st installed in Houston around Thanksgiving either 98 or 99, they put the stations on auto and everyone went home that weekend...
I know of several CC clusters that have NOONE at the stations when on air...sorry, you are totally wrong here..The Minot CC station that was involved in the situation was the LP-1 for the area..and never sent an EAS alert because NOONE would answer the phone (and noone had the correct hotline number)...but thats consolidation and CC for ya..
 
CW said:
EXCUSE me but you obviously never worked for Cheap Channel..when their Prophet automation system was 1st installed in Houston around Thanksgiving either 98 or 99, they put the stations on auto and everyone went home that weekend...
I know of several CC clusters that have NOONE at the stations when on air...sorry, you are totally wrong here..The Minot CC station that was involved in the situation was the LP-1 for the area..and never sent an EAS alert because NOONE would answer the phone (and noone had the correct hotline number)...but thats consolidation and CC for ya..

I can tell you the Clear Channel stations in my area are manned 24/7, and I was told by someone in the building that it was corporate policy to have their stations attended at all times. I also know that all of the Clear Channel clusters within 200 miles of me are attended 24/7 unless things have changed recently. If the person informed me incorrectly, then I stand corrected.

To answer your question, no, I never have worked for Clear Channel. I can't say it's something I'm too upset about, though I actually have some friends who have worked and still work for the company. Some of them hated their time there, and, believe it or not, others really enjoyed working there and felt like the company took pretty good care of them.

I have worked for some of the other large broadcasting companies, like Cumulus and Cox. The Cumulus stations I worked at were manned 24/7 as well, though I know of a few clusters in the company that weren't. The Cox stations are not and haven't been for quite some time.
 
Kent said:
I can tell you the Clear Channel stations in my area are manned 24/7, and I was told by someone in the building that it was corporate policy to have their stations attended at all times. I also know that all of the Clear Channel clusters within 200 miles of me are attended 24/7 unless things have changed recently. If the person informed me incorrectly, then I stand corrected.

To answer your question, no, I never have worked for Clear Channel. I can't say it's something I'm too upset about, though I actually have some friends who have worked and still work for the company. Some of them hated their time there, and, believe it or not, others really enjoyed working there and felt like the company took pretty good care of them.

I have worked for some of the other large broadcasting companies, like Cumulus and Cox. The Cumulus stations I worked at were manned 24/7 as well, though I know of a few clusters in the company that weren't. The Cox stations are not and haven't been for quite some time.

I've worked for all of the companies you named at one time or another. The Cox cluster I worked in was manned 24/7. I worked for Clear Channel in a few different places, some manned overnight, some not, some part of the time but not always. Cumulus was the same. Sometimes manned, sometimes not.

I don't think there's really any rhyme or reason to it. It's how the local managers set their budget and prioritize their spending. I've found that to be true more often than not. Clear Channel for example gets a bad rep for programming decisions that are supposedly made by corporate, because often the local managers will blame corporate when they make a cut. Lemmie tell ya, if you've ever been axed in a Clear Channel budget cut, thank the local manager because he made the decision, not some faceless suit at corporate. He might have been told he would have to trim his budget by $X, but he wasn't specifically told to axe the midday person or the night jock on X station. He could have trimmed expenses elsewhere.

Overnights are an easy target. What's the worst that could go wrong? One Clear Channel station I worked at had the Prophet lock up during playback of a voicetrack. It kept repeating part of the voicetrack over and over. Kinda ruins the illusion doesn't it? A silence sensor wouldn't have caught that. I seem to remember reading about a similar incident on WKSC "KISS-FM" Chicago a few years ago. It made All Access.

I'm of the opinion that a station billing tens of millions of dollars in a market like Chicago can probably afford to staff up around the clock. It should be staffed around the clock. It's ridiculous that something like the WKSC Prophet meltdown should ever occur without a human there to intervene.

Radio as an industry has to be totally insane to think it can keep generating bigger and bigger returns for investors without investing in the product - RADIO. I loved the remark Clear Channel's Chicago GM made when he made his most recent cuts. It was something to the effect of they're "not a radio company." No, they want to be thought of as a MEDIA company and would be staffing up accordingly in 2008. It was something about hiring more graphic designers or something like that. Pathetic. You're not a MEDIA company, you're a RADIO company. Hire some friggin' RADIO PEOPLE and stop trying to find ever more creative ways to kill the golden goose. Radio is still the most pervasive and convenient delivery mechanism for audio entertainment. Talk all you want about the internet, iPods, whatever. Done right, local radio has the ability to connect with people and deliver results like no other media can.

I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't properly support your on-air product with good web design, streaming, photos, video clips, etc. You need to do all of that these days, but the on-air product must come first. Without it, you have nothing. Radio as an industry has to stop believing the hype. We're not dead, we're not dying, we're not going to lose our asses to "new media" UNLESS we allow it to happen by continuing to water down our own product.

Remember the dot com bubble and subsequent burst? That's the result of hype and fantasy gone awry. Unfortunately, that same type of fantasy about "new media" seems to be clouding the judgement of way too many radio people. The way I see it, the radio industry has two choices, either develop a search engine that kicks the s&%t out of Google and become the king of new media, or get back to operating your radio stations like radio stations. You already OWN that mountain. Act like it.
 
CW said:
The Minot CC station that was involved in the situation was the LP-1 for the area..and never sent an EAS alert because NOONE would answer the phone (and noone had the correct hotline number)...but thats consolidation and CC for ya..

EAS alerts can not be triggered by phone calls... that would invite every idiot and prankster to call and set off a state of panic. The whole idea of the system is that it must be triggered by civil defense or other authorities directly. Clear had the EAS gear in place and working. The morons in the local government had not installed, tested and trained their staff. Clear did everything necessary and required... the city and local authorities did not. Yet Clear takes a bullet when they are in no way responsible.
 
If this rule were to go into effect, could it force your "corporate" stations in some
markets, mainly small and medium, to sell them because they don't want to spend
money to hire people?, or could they cut more positions, like in sales, just to pay
a person, or persons?, In addition, you run the risk of hiring those with no prior
experience or other issues.
I'm sure many radio companies will voice complaints to those at the FCC.
 
Having been around this "thing" we call an industry for the last 30+ years let's try and put some of this into perspective.

#1: How silly is it that we are even discussing the merits of paying $30k+ a year to provide for ONE person to insure the radio station isn't burned to the ground by **anyone** and that the station provide for the most simple "public interest, convenience and necessity?" If an owner can't afford $30k+ a year...close the damn station. Sell it to someone who has some business acumen.

#2: Stations make LOTS of money. A lousy owner with no clue turns 20% ROI.

#3: Whether it is a faceless suit in SA or the local guy the fact is downsizing is downsizing. Having been the guy who has been fired and the guy who is doing the firing it makes no difference. The next morning YOU are out of a job, the person you worked for isn't.

#4: Only a real idiot fires sales people. Most sales people are on a low base with a percentage. NEVER fire people who bring in money so long as they don't try to sell you and your family with the "buy." Ha! Seriously though, good sales people are worth everything they earn. Ones that are still learning get there and the bad ones ....well...they just move on.

#5: Having watched this train wreck I think it is safe to say that CC is not the only problem but they MADE the problem. They were the ones who first decided that their customers were their advertising clients....not the listeners or the public responsibility required of each station. As soon as they cemented that disconnect everything that has occured since then is possible. Voice tracking, shuttering news departments, all are possibile once you no longer own a radio station....but own a 7-11 that happens to have a "stick."

"Good night and good luck."
 
justareporter said:
I'm guessing if there was one person there he/she was busy watching the TV and it was too much trouble ...or worse...was told by management **not** to answer the phone.
I'm willing to bet it was the latter. Being told by management **not** to answer the phone was part of the "training." Par for the course. In that case, the "trained monkey" did his job after all. ::)
 
DavidEduardo said:
CW said:
The Minot CC station that was involved in the situation was the LP-1 for the area..and never sent an EAS alert because NOONE would answer the phone (and noone had the correct hotline number)...but thats consolidation and CC for ya..

EAS alerts can not be triggered by phone calls... that would invite every idiot and prankster to call and set off a state of panic. The whole idea of the system is that it must be triggered by civil defense or other authorities directly. Clear had the EAS gear in place and working. The morons in the local government had not installed, tested and trained their staff. Clear did everything necessary and required... the city and local authorities did not. Yet Clear takes a bullet when they are in no way responsible.

Excuse me David, but EAS has to enter the chain somewhere....how else would the LP-1 get the EAS notification from local officials? FAX? Only if they knew the correct fax number.. YES I KNOW HOW EAS is supposed to work..I have worked at LP-1s before....The local officials in the Minot incident had NO CORRECT numbers to contact CC.....so whose fault was it?? CC for not informing the local officials HOW to get ahold of them to spread information via EAS....It is NOT the local governments responsibility to have ANY EAS gear at all...Part 11 only covers broadcast stations and it is the STATIONS responsibility to notify the local officials on HOW to contact them and start the EAS process....but in this case, that was never done....

You act like some of us donot understand Part 11 of the rules or know HOW EAS is supposed to work....get real...I DO! BEEN THERE, made it work right!!! :)
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom