The Western Hemisphere never had 9 kHz spacing. Many nations had irregular spacing, but none adopted the 9 kHz model.
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Fewer cars with AM radios...
- Thread starter davideduardo
- Start date
Is AM broadcasting in North America in the first part of the 21st century (putting a bit of a point on the topic) a "dead man walking?"
Since it's been around a hundred years (odd writing that...), does it survive in some form for another twenty years?
If it's mainly electric vehicles that are eschewing the technology (because fixing the real issue is 'a technological challenge' to overcome) and most listening is done in vehicles - do we now have a sunset date for the AM broadcasting service?
The year 2035 seems to be the one that most are claiming the end of most ICE vehicles.
Come back in about a decade to see what happens.
Maybe new for sale but there will be ICE vehicles on the road for many years afterward. The end will come only (a) when the cost of EV's reach a comparable level with ICE and (b) availability of refueling stations (both petrol and electric) reaches somewhere near what is available now for petrol fueled vehicles.
Unless you are using your EV to commute back and forth to work and not to tow, go on long trips, carry lots of people or cargo, drive in a hurry or when the weather is too hot or cold for the EV battery an EV is a waste of money. Battery technology and refueling availability are nowhere near ready to compete with ICE vehicles on a broad basis.
One could argue, we all are. That said; it's not like the government is going to wake up one day and decide arbitrarily to end AM broadcasting by X-date. What will likely happen is as it's listeners continue aging-out and dying off, there will be an equally dead revenue stream. Eventually AM stations will be relegated to being one of the few residents in a media ghost town.
What we do know, is the number of advertisers leaving traditional media is happening faster than new ones getting in. Now amplify the age crisis AM faces, and the downward spiral speed is increasing.
That's just the manufacture of new internal combustion cars and SUV's. Pickup, commercial, buses, and semi's will still be sold with gas or diesel engines.
That doesn't seem like a discussion we would have had. EAS is activated by the relevant authorities as defined by federal and state law or regulation.
RadioDiscussions would not be the most informed place to discuss why the governor, the governor's designee, or local authorities if so empowered in Texas, chose not to activate EAS.
Exactly. EAS activation is ordered by the relevant authorities, which triggers the primary station. That station can be, and in most cases is, set up to interrupt programming with an EAS alert, which is a tone, followed by an electronic voice that tells what the emergency is and what the recommended course of action is. The tone triggers all stations in the network, so even an unattended station should automatically interrupt programming and broadcast the message.
Having had experience with EAS working at a primary here in Sacramento for six years (KFBK) and now at a station downstream, those alerts are quite detailed. We get them for severe weather and fire evacuations. Actually, being live after one of those alerts is the tricky part---making sure you're repeating the alert without adding or leaving out critical information.
No, that is the year, pioneered by CA, when internal combustion engines will be prohibited. It wont be until well into the 2060's that the last gas powered passenger vehicles are gone. As Kelly says, many commercial and industrial vehicles will continue to use fossil fuel.
Here are the electric vehicles without AM radio:
All Tesla models, two Mercedes-Benz EVs, two BMW EVs, the Porsche Taycan, Audi e-Tron, VW ID.4, all new Volvos.
That's it. And every one of those is a decidedly low-volume car. Tesla is the only American manufacturer to suggest that interference makes AM untenable in an electric car. Every other American maker of an EV (and every Asian maker) makes it work just fine. The European brands are backing out because the AM band is nearing extinction in their home countries. On higher-volume vehicles, they can budget for AM-capable receivers in North America and another receiver for Europe, but again, these are small-volume vehicles.
As for 2035, that's the date California has mandated the end of sales of new gasoline or diesel-powered vehicles, with the exception of plug-in hybrids that deliver 50 miles of range on a charge and have a gasoline-powered engine and a fuel tank.
As Landtuna says, the end of the sale of gasoline-powered vehicles (minus PHEVs) is not the same as a wholesale conversion of what everyone drives. If we outlawed gasoline-powered vehicles TODAY, it would take 16 and a half years of record sales to convert the American fleet. We're nowhere near record sales at the moment (supply chain) and we've never had back-to-back record years, much less 16 of them in a row. Figure 25-40 years.
Tuna's a bit pessimistic on the case for owning an EV. The vast majority of new EVs on sale deliver at least 240 miles per charge and some deliver up to 600 miles. The charging network is expanding rapidly and new technology allows cars like the Porsche Taycan, Hyundai IONIQ 5, Kia EV6 and Genesis GV60 to charge from 10% to 80% in 18 minutes. I could today do a roadtrip from Sacramento to Los Angeles, charge where we usually stop for a bite to eat in both directions and not add any time to our trip. That's only going to get better.
He's right about towing, he's right about heavy cargo and there absolutely are parts of the country where the infrastructure is not ready yet.
We're 13 years from the mandate. If I were shopping today, I'd seriously consider plug-in hybrid, but this early on, there will still be a lot of people for whom an internal combustion engine makes the most sense.
Correction, David---when sale of new passenger vehicles with internal combustion engines---except plug-in hybrids with at least 50 miles or pure electric range---will be prohibited. In California. It hasn't gone national, yet. But Europe has the same deadline and I'm frankly expecting the manufacturers to beat the deadline.
Understood. Since there are around 18 states that mimic, step by step, California's environmental legislation, I expect this to be de fact a national deadline as car makers won't develop vehicles for the few remaining gas-permitted states.
And up to 2035, the conversion is going to be gradual. I'm about to change my 6 1/2 year old SUV for a new model, and it will be gas-fueled... "about" being "in the next year". I have a "clean diesel" and it gets 31 mpg now, and can do over 600 miles on a tank of gas. I have few choices in an SUV that will match that.
TEOTWAKI, it won't make a difference. If, on the other hand, it's a milder, SHTF scenario, radio still probably has a place to play. Even AM. A lot of information in such situations would be word of mouth. Sure, your average consumer doesn't own a portable radio anymore. But enough of them probably do.
But actually, in disasters and emergencies, we all know that ham radio will save the day. Ham radio is vitally important in every kind of emergency. Something that was proved when there was a tornado watch last year, here in the Puget Sound area, and the EAS kicked in and broadcast it (I heard it on the AM band, it probably was on at least one or two FM stations, I'm guessing). As for the cell warning system, the cell phone warning was MIA.
When I tuned into the 2 meter band, ham radio was saving the day with several megahertz of absolutely nothing but hiss and static.
The 160 meter band is an order of magnitude less crowded than the AM band. And most of the voice operation is SSB, not AM (with some notable exceptions).
As always, the antenna matters. A full-sized vertical (which most of us don't have room for anyway), or even a base-loaded shorter one, will be a much better receiving antenna than the built-in loopstick that consumer radios have.
Here's the original topic. no point rehashing it here.
Not to mention all other forms of petrol powered items such as ships, aircraft etc.
Remember, there are multiple government authorities empowered to activate the EAS. The first thing is whether activation will help improve the situation. Apparently nobody thought that an EAS activation might help as everyone knew the storm was coming and ample media coverage had been given.
Think about the answer to this and the reasons for the correct answer: was the EAS activated on 9/11?
The Emergency Alert System was never activated in the terrorist attacks, as the extensive media coverage made it unnecessary (Wikipedia)
What do you consider "enough"? <1% in a major metropolitan area like LA, Chicago, or NYC? To me, that isn't much.
Being a Ham myself, I've seen few examples where here in the U.S., that's been the case. In fact, where natural disasters that affect the general public have happened, most of the organized assistance from ARES or RACES have been MIA. I get it though, much of that is because ham's are members of the public, just like you an me. Many are already elderly males. When the you-know-what hits the fan, you take care of your own first, then volunteer when able. Recent examples of that from the flooding in parts of the South, and the Texas freeze from last year. You know, the one where Senator Cruz from Texas got caught fleeing with his family to a warmer vacation spot? Texas has several large clubs affiliated with ARES and RACES, but for whatever the reason, mobilized in small geographic areas, if at all. Some over-zealous individual hams simply got in the way of State or county resources.
It depends on the area. Here in Washington D.C., my cell phone goes off frequently with weather alerts involving the potential for tornadoes, which in the Seattle area, is as rare as earthquakes are in D.C.
Exactly. And yet, when nothing is happening, there is a very active EMCOMM amateur group.
Honestly it doesn't sound good for any form of radio. While the 2023 Ford F150 Lightning is expected to exclude AM radio, Ford has been removing SiriusXM from a lot of 2022 ICE vehicle orders . They blame the parts shortage, but either way it is a lot of lost potential subscribers for SiriusXM because the only way to add SiriusXM will be an aftermarket radio.
Tesla currently ships cars with AM or XM, and has made it clear they see a not-too-distant future without AM/FM/HD/XM in any of their cars.
Or stream it through the app.
That's an option. But probably the biggest selling point is the no hassle, integrated satellite service.
In the case of AM/FM, they can always stream too. But with the forever rising royalty rates, is that really a viable business model?
True about the 2023 Lightning (the ‘22 has AM).
Tesla has not offered cars with AM since 2018. And Elon sees a “not-too-distant future” for a lot of stuff that ends up being vapor.
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