FM Talk in Buffalo

[jas2525]

Will we ever see it in a substantive way?

107.7 (WBEN simulcast) really doesn't count because it's:
A) totally old-school, angry white conserva-talk, and
B) because you cannot freakin' hear them in most of the metro!

And who or what would be heard on a successful FM Talk station in WNY?

 

[Element9]

And who or what would be heard on a successful FM Talk station in WNY?

The younger listeners are 18-49 Men and they're listening to sports talk, not the aging, republican political talkers on stations like WBEN or stations like WBEN that simulcast on FM or an FM translator... or the totally uninteresting progressive talkers on KB. Point 7 Persons 12+ on KB. Really sad.

WGR has the young demos WBEN would like to have. But the combination of younger listeners on WGR and geezers on WBEN generates good advertising revenue for Entercom. The closest thing to younger talk radio on FM is Shredd & Ragan. How old are those guys? About 45? Well, that's a lot younger than Bauerle and Beach, and about 20 years younger than WBEN's core listeners. So the future of FM talk in Buffalo is sports, Shredd & Ragan, maybe Rob Dobson or somebody like those guys, who don't think everything they say or do has to be about politics, but when they do talk politics, they take all of the phonies to task, left, right and center.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

...and we saw the ratings for sports talk on 107.7 in their WNSA days.

 

[jas2525]

...and we saw the ratings for sports talk on 107.7 in their WNSA days.

You really need to take 107.7 completely out of any discussion of what may or may not work on the radio dial.
That signal is truly atrocious.

All anybody needs to know about the irrational feeding frenzy that unfolded in radio, post-Telecom Act, is the price paid by Entercom for that horrible stick.

 

[Philip_Airtime]

Yezi was not clear on just what he was trying to say. Was he pointing to WNSA as an indicator that a sports talk station on FM can draw ratings? Or was he saying that the station failed to attract a sizeable audience?

I tried to do a search for Buffalo ratings from the early 2000s but failed to find a link. But if my memory serves, which was confirmed by the 107.7 page on Wikipedia, WNSA outperformed WGR in its early years. At its prime, I do remember WNSA earning a three to four share in this market (and perhaps even had a higher share during the Sabres 2001 playoff run), which isn't too bad for what I will agree is a marginal signal. So Yezi, if you're making the argument that WNSA did not enjoy some ratings success, you're rewriting history. Having exclusive rights to Sabres broadcasts at the time was no small thing.

Now, after the Rigases got in trouble in 2002, both the Sabres and WNSA began a downward spiral. Mike Schopp left WNSA for WGR, and WNSA struggled to find a winning morning host after Howard Simon begged off of mornings for afternoons. Eventually, WGR gained ratings supremacy, and WNSA was sold to Entercom in the break-up of the Adelphia empire.

But again, prior to Adelphia's bankruptcy, WNSA more than held its own as a sports station in the Buffalo market. And I wouldn't necessarily dismiss that despite its marginal signal.

 

[Bob1370]

WNSA's peak ratings really aren't relevant to today, simply because at the beginning of the 2000s it was under common ownership with the Sabres and carrying the games, while WGR had to do without play by play except for the Yankees. After the whole Adelphia/WNSA/Sabres combo melted down with the Rigas fiasco, WGR got the Sabres back, hired most of the strongest WNSA staff (though not all) and effectively merged two sports stations into one. It's no coincidence that it has basically the same total audience as both WNSA and WGR put together were pulling a decade ago.

107.7 today is a rimshot signal for both Buffalo and Rochester. I don't know if technically it could reposition its transmitter closer to either one of those markets. They should try if they can. Entercom has a cluster in both cities, and could provide a potentially profitable home for it in either market--but it's a signal without a real home as it stands now. Move it closer to Buffalo and it could make it once again as a AAA format station (it isn't really needed as a suppmement to WBEN because that signal can cover the market already). Move it closer to Rochester and it could fill a number of niches.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Bob, you're thinking that AM is still viable with an audience under 50. Most radio people don't think that's so.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

I have long since thrown away the ratings breakouts, but IIRC, WGR News Radio 55 was ahead in daytime dayparts Men 35-64/25-54 during the years the Sabres were on WNSA. This was especially the case in PM drive. It should be no surprise that WNSA won the 7-midnight daypart by a wide margin during hockey season. The Sabres ratings seemed to be at their peak when WHTT-FM broadcast the games with its strong signal and highly successful Oldies format. Give Tom Schuh due credit for using the Sabres to re-cycle Sabres game cume from nights to morning drive. As Buffalo Bills football is a good fit for 97 Rock, Sabres hockey was a good fit for Oldies 104.

The possibility of moving the 107.7 antenna closer to Buffalo has been previously discussed (innumerable times) on this board. As it has been explained by more than one technically proficient poster, 107.7 is short-spaced with Canadian stations on adjacent frequencies. Unless the Canadian government re-writes the rules or the Canadian stations move to other frequencies, the 107.7 antenna will remain high atop WUWU Mountain in Whethersfield for quite some time. As to FM talk in Buffalo, I concur with the theory that it's going to take younger air talent to reach younger demographics. And it has to be on a good signal.

 

[stalkthisboard]

Do I remember correctly that one of the reasons Adelphia bought 107.7 was that the signal reached into Rochester? (albeit not that strongly) The logic was that it expanded the reach of Sabre's 'casts and support into the junior market. I remember as a kid, growing up in Greece, buying my first fm radio and discovering the beautiful music of some Upstate New York network (they had four or five stations IIRC, running the same music - no announcers and I don't remember any ads - always wondered how they did that?). Anyway, the signal came in pretty clear on my Radio-Shack am-fm unit back then. So, years later, in Buffalo, it made sense to me that the Rigas' would use the signal to reach the Rochester sub-market for the Sabres.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I still think that 107.7 would be a better fit for WGR. They're already targeting a younger demo with their programming, and the nightime signal of 550 sucks going east. 107.7 would fill in their weakest coverage area nicely, and extend their reach to just about everywhere west of the 390. They could still maintain their Rochester Sabres affiliate to boost the coverage in the metro, while extending coverage in the TSA.

WBEN has already demonstrated that being on FM doesn't increase their audience. Until they're prepared to change their programming, it ain't gonna help.

 

[Radio_bored-Op]

Country Cat 108 - would be a nice fit!

 

[Bob1370]

"Bob, you're thinking that AM is still viable with an audience under 50. Most radio people don't think that's so."

Most radio people believe too strongly in their own pre-conceived notions. Content is king, and AM stations which program properly do very well, thank you, in the 35-54 demographic sweet spot. If you don't believe me, just ask the programmers at WGR, WFAN, KMOX, WBZ, or any number of AMs with a continuing broad appeal.

Maybe music's best days on AM are behind it because today's AM radios don't sound any better than a typical iPod. (And that's beginning to hurt FM music stations as well.) But If you program spoken word radio well, it'll draw no matter what band it's on.

 

[chas108]

Country Cat 108 - would be a nice fit!

That was tried 20 years ago and failed. And 'YRK was nothing like they are today. They may have had the ratings but the presentation was MOR-like and the processing was the worst I'd even heard on a Country station. AM included.

About 1997-98 'YRK started getting it together. Even my wife noticed the improvement in the audio. I don't remember staff changes beside PD Ken Johnson leaving but from that point forward I've enjoyed hearing them when I drive thru the market. The jocks usually have something relevant to say and the formatics and processing are top-notch for a market the size of Buffalo.

I know first-hand how big the Country life group has grown but I can't see a format competitor - especially on that fringe frequency - making a dent in the WYRK juggernaut.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Country's different now than it was in the '90s. There are so many country genres that no one station can really keep everybody happy. WYRK is a very good radio station. It would take a well-programmed station with a serious commitment (a/k/a promotional support) to dent that juggernaut, but it could be done. The question is whether Entercom or Cumu-less is ready to invest in the talent and outside promotion necessary, and whether they've got a good FM signal to put it on.

I don't seen Entercom dumping their current programming on either KISS or Star, and the 107.7 signal isn't good enough. Is Cumu-less ready to dump the programming on one of their FMs and make that kind of investment? Would it get them a bigger share than they're already getting? I don't see enough upside. Then again, my name isn't Dickey.

As far as anybody else doing FM talk, you have the same problem. Where's the upside, and what's the cost? Unless the RIAA comes up with some music tariff that's completely off the charts, or people start abandoning OTA broadcast for Internet radio, I don't see major changes coming on Buffalo FMs. They're all doing "good enough".

 

[chas108]

Then again, my name isn't Dickey.

And speaking just for me...we're glad it's not.

Sounds to me like the race to the bottom between CC and Cumulus is about to go into overdrive. When Entercom comes off as generous by comparison, you know it's bad.

 

[Element9]

"Bob, you're thinking that AM is still viable with an audience under 50. Most radio people don't think that's so."

Most radio people believe too strongly in their own pre-conceived notions. Content is king, and AM stations which program properly do very well, thank you, in the 35-54 demographic sweet spot. If you don't believe me, just ask the programmers at WGR, WFAN, KMOX, WBZ, or any number of AMs with a continuing broad appeal.

Sports talk draws more younger demos than news/general issues/political talk, be it on AM or FM. Sports talk gets Men 25-49. News talk doesn't. WGR and WFAN have younger demos than WBEN and WABC. Citing KMOX and WBZ, two heritage news-talk AMs, doesn't lend validity to a claim that AM reaches younger demos. As to the "broad appeal" of AM news-talk, aside from sports, such as the Cardinals return to KMOX St. Louis, KMOX, like WBEN, is top heavy. And so is WABC, although not as top heavy as WOR.

FM sports talk offers the best avenue to attracting younger male listeners and poses the ultimate threat to an AM sports talk station's younger demos. Boston is a good example. CBS put WBZ-FM the Sports Hub on the air against Entercom's once dominant sports AM, WEEI. The impact of WBZ-FM forced Entercom to blow up one of its music FMs and flip it to sports.

Let's get back to Buffalo-Niagara Falls-Rochester. Say Cumulus flipped the Edge to sports talk with a line-up that featured Bull, Shredd & Ragan and a few recognizable young sports personalities (for the sake of discussion, Brad Riter and Nick Mendola.) With the Bills as part of its line-up, the Edge presents a nuclear challenge to WGR, which would have to protect its strong listener base Men 25-44. WGR's association with the Sabres might temporarily thwart a direct format competitor, but the Edge, having the Bills and a strong FM signal that covers the market day and night, would present fierce competition.

This, of course, is all hypothetical. Such a move would create problems for 97 Rock. As is, the Edge likely has a much more manageable payroll than does WGR, and with Cumulus on record intending to cut spending rather than expanding, it's likely the Edge will stay the course with a music based format. (But if the Edge flips to sports talk, you heard it here first. Definitely dumb luck.) The point is, AM sports talk reaches more "younger" listeners than does AM news talk. And sports talk on FM is the ultimate "younger demo" talk format.

 

[Radio_bored-Op]

Im not a huge country fan (either)
but "now a days" country is more
welcomed ( prime time award show);
cross over artists, (etc)... it "could work"
by Entercomm -
Yes, if a one stand alone station "guy" tries
w/syndicated programming and sub par talent
(of course: fail) but this day and age,
soo many more options - tie in nascar,
promotions, big name talents, etc
im not saying take it down in one book but
....look at the alternative..

Im hitching a ride nowadays more than driving
and two diff. cars had it on 930, i asked why not 107.7
[the people I asked werent 'radio guys'] soo they didnt
care about the audio quality on the mid-range, thru the speakers
(or some nonsense) lol

So,
the first reply, (*IM NOT KIDDING)* I want to hear the news in the morning
(not music)
I was puzzled, my buddy didnt even know 107.7 was "930-FM"
other reply, was a yea, I know its on fm - and didnt switch over,
"930" was good enuff...

 

[Play Freebird]

Do I remember correctly that one of the reasons Adelphia bought 107.7 was that the signal reached into Rochester? (albeit not that strongly) The logic was that it expanded the reach of Sabre's 'casts and support into the junior market.

Also, the signal could be heard somewhat well in Coudersport, PA where Adelphia was based, so it had special appeal to John Rigas -- at least that's what John Casciani told me.

I remember as a kid, growing up in Greece, buying my first fm radio and discovering the beautiful music of some Upstate New York network (they had four or five stations IIRC, running the same music - no announcers and I don't remember any ads - always wondered how they did that?). Anyway, the signal came in pretty clear on my Radio-Shack am-fm unit back then. So, years later, in Buffalo, it made sense to me that the Rigas' would use the signal to reach the Rochester sub-market for the Sabres.

That was the Northeast Radio Network (aka Ivy Network) owned by Woody Erdman of WTKO fame. You'll find an aircheck of the "Weather Roundup", a daily feature of the network, here -- with an Air Force Reserve PSA in the middle and a WEIV station ID at the end, buffered by ample dead air:

http://northeastairchecks.com/checks/nern68.ram

 

[GeorgeKramer]

How about this all-talk lineup, something like Shredd N Ragan mornings 6-10; Rob Dobson middays 10-2; steal Mike Schopp from WGR and do Schopp and Riter 2-7; steal Coach Sal from WGR and do Sal 7-11; syndidated overnights.

 

[SirRoxalot]

How about this all-talk lineup, something like Shredd N Ragan mornings 6-10; Rob Dobson middays 10-2; steal Mike Schopp from WGR and do Schopp and Riter 2-7; steal Coach Sal from WGR and do Sal 7-11; syndidated overnights.

I'm sorry. I lost you. What frequency are you going to put that on? And where are you going to get the money to pay that line-up?