Forever may be professional, but they're mean!!

[kenhawk1160]

I believe that you have missed the reason that the Forever group's country station has managed to do well over the years. On a scale from 1 to 10 the product is a 5 or 6. (Just listen to other country stations.)
The fact that the format is country and on a high power FM signal, that is the reason for the success, period. Consider that Country is and has been a high flying format nationally then when you add to that the power of the signal you have to ask why do they not do far better.
As an advertiser with a large budget ($100,000) I deal with different media. When I can, I buy around Forever stations. The smaller stations do more for me at better rates with far better service. (Consider Forevers effort to charge for dubs. We told them forget it or we’ll forget them. That ended that)
People in my business in this region find the forever management extremely unpleasant to deal with. Take a look at the situation in State College. The rep I have dealt with at Forever has left. Now the manager calls on me. She may run the place and have worked there a long time she does not understand how the medium works. State College radio is struggling.
Yes we buy their country, we would buy a lot more but to work with forever is to add hastle that I do not have time for.
I will also add that I have a contact that works for them so I have heard about the company than I care to ( a company in chaos).
I believe they are over-leveraged (they bought too many stations at high prices and now those same station values have plummeted), under producing, (they are now throwing in all sorts of freebies to get the ad dollars) and poorly managed (not able to respond to the current ad market). These people will eat their young just to get a $5,000 buy. And then there is TV with lower rates and better production costing less.
But that’s me I just buy advertising for my company.

Marketer1021...good to hear from you. It's not often you find someone who deals with the business side of radio who's not actually in radio.

I find the things you're telling us very interesting. It's important to listen to the needs of your clients. More importantly, it's important to understand what it's like to be a small business owner in today's economic climate. It's taking longer for us to cultivate our relationships in western Pennsylvania, where we are surrounded by Froggy properties, but for us, it's worth the effort. Two of our four owners are on site at the station every day, and they understand what it's like out there. They'd rather us take some time to work a potential account and have the client feel confident about their investment rather than anger an important business owner who's going to talk about their bad experience with others. Plus, we are locally owned and operated.

 

[DMcCall]

Forever DID NOT start from the ground up. They bought a heritage AM station with a 5000 watt signal and an FM with 50,000 red hot watts. They put country on "at the right time". WVAM and the other FM's in the market were in chaos in those days with the exception of WHPA which Forever quickly purchased and ruined. Not only did they ruin WHPA but they ruined some people's lives. Carol DID NOT buy WFBG & the Frog, Key Market/Kerby out of Harrisburg bought it. Kerby loads the gun and Carol fires the bullets. Having finanical guru Donald Alt in the fold down in Georgia is an okay deal too.

I don't remember WVAM or WPRR being in chaos when Froggy signed on, and I was there.

 

[Radioheadbone]

D.W. you are so right. I also agree with Marketer1021 that the problem is the ownership and upper management. They are unable to deal with a different radio market. Is the froglady squirming in her seat?

 

[fryman]

WVAM/WPRR was always in chaos. Whether it was Denny Bixler not paying the bills, the station double biling, the station burning down, the station being sold in a distress sale, Jim "I'll drink to that" Drayton running the place, the guys from Meadville running the place, Jerry Huskens and Wilma trying to run the place, going from top 40 to oldies in 1972 back to top 40 then to country next to sports. Their ground system was terrible for the AM and they were always a "also ran" or "want to be" station and could never successfully compete in the market. They had some good books but the sales were never there. WPRR couldn't be heard in most of Altoona when they first came on the air until their tower was moved to Red Hill. The best thing they ever had going was when Rich Dennis was at the helm in the mornings.

 

[DMcCall]

WVAM/WPRR was always in chaos. Whether it was Denny Bixler not paying the bills, the station double biling, the station burning down, the station being sold in a distress sale, Jim "I'll drink to that" Drayton running the place, the guys from Meadville running the place, Jerry Huskens and Wilma trying to run the place, going from top 40 to oldies in 1972 back to top 40 then to country next to sports. Their ground system was terrible for the AM and they were always a "also ran" or "want to be" station and could never successfully compete in the market. They had some good books but the sales were never there. WPRR couldn't be heard in most of Altoona when they first came on the air until their tower was moved to Red Hill. The best thing they ever had going was when Rich Dennis was at the helm in the mornings.

Actually the city coverage was better with the tower beside the station. The Red Hill tower caused some problems with reception in parts of town. That tower only operated for a brief period of time before it was downed by ice and wind. The transmitter was then moved to Wopsy after many months of operating on the back-up tower and transmitter.

We had no problems competing while I was there. We had strong numbers and great people, with the exception of one of the guys from Meadville, who could have used a daily beating. There was a revolving door on the sales office though.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Lest I sound like a Forever apologist, what they did with the Altoona property (WFBG-AM/FM) is something that should have been done a long time ago.

What was then known as WFBG Easy 98.1 was this...a high-powered signal that was broadcasting a format that was on its way out in just about every corner of the country. Beautiful music was being dropped in just about every major market in the late 1980's, yet WFBG-FM was still clinging to "the good ol' days" when such stations actually commanded top ratings in large and middle markets.

I could hear this station clear as a bell in Apollo, Pennsylvania (a good 80 miles away) when I was growing up. When country surged in listenership not long after the debut of Garth Brooks, they did what was prudent...put on a winning format guaranteed to produce top-of-mind-recall if they stayed the course.

That's what they did, and it has yielded very positive results, like it or not. WFBG-AM they left (for the most part) untouched for many years until they had to make a change there.

Never having worked for them (though I did interview once), I don't know what kind of problems they're having internally, but if what you all say is true, I would hope they 'go back to school' and learn how to properly take care of their clients. Salespeople, sadly, have become order-takers over the years, and not true marketing professionals. They need to be trained better, and management needs to understand the need to "take care of the client" as opposed to "take their money".