format change predictions

[MoldaMania182]

WPEN: Network talk since WPHT isn't doing it anymore (maybe not, but alturnative on WPEN? with RFF doing it too? I think not.)
At least the version of talk I'm talkin 'bout isn't being done here. I should point out I dont know PHT's rateings when they were doing a format like that, so this idea may be far fetched anyway.
Dance? nah. we saw what WIFX morphed into from Rhythmic AC.
50's-70's Oldies and NAC/Smooze Jazz? I wish but probably not for anybody

If the market can suppoet two sports talk stations, it can support two Alternatives. 97.5 reaches better into Jersey too, so it can give Trenton and Camden a better signal for Alternative, it can do a harder Alternative format so it's slightly different. If WISX doesn't hurt WIOQ with how close their two formats are, it'll be ideal. Plus 97.5 could do more music in the morning, since MMR has a talk show. Not to mention two alternative DJ's from Q101 in Chicago came to Philly - giving them a morning show here could be another option. Alternative is in the Top 5, Sports Talk isn't even top 10.

You're logic is really wrong in all sorts of directions. You try to point to sports FM stations, yet that's apples and oranges to Music for starters, and 2 you say it can't survive...so which is it? Kinda shot yourself in the foot there. Further ISX and IOQ don't compete, and since CC owns both they are sure of it. RDW competes with IOQ as does PST. Philadelphia doesn't need and won't have 4 Rock stations again. In fact it would really be 4.5 because you can't entirely ignore XPN. Regardless YSP flipping back and failing proved it was Rock overkill (regardless of it's own format issues). The fact that 3 can be successful in one market these days is an accomplishment by itself. If you don't like RFF for alt, you're out of luck.

ISX has a playlist much more similar to IOQ then RDW. RDW's looks like PHI and USL's.
Don't try to argue with somebody who mostly listens to 102.1 and 106.1 - Daily basis. 106 in Morning, 102.1 / 106.1 in afternoon (more 106 now they're 69 minutes commercial free)

I also listen to 96.5 (WRDW) but that's only in the morning.

I understand you'd think ISX is nothing like IOQ, but CC posts the playlists on the station sites. Check them both out; compare the first two pages - then check their Top 10 most played (via whatever source you do)

It'd be like saying RFY in reading (which covers Philly's Metro well) doesn't compare to MGK.

ISX does look more lime WSTW (CHR in Wilmington) and PST (CHR/Hot AC in Trenton - I call it a CHR because the site claims it is a CHR. But is still very comparable to Q102 / WIOQ / 102.1

That being said, I do listen to WRFF - but it has a somewhat soft and unique playlist - which is why Philly can support two Alternatives. GM could make money with WPEN-AM and a music on FM, more then they are now.

WISX is Hot AC, which does have much more crossover these days with CHR, however the base of their audience is very different. The Cure and Gin Blossoms playing at 7AM in morning drive would never air on Q or even interest a Gen Y'er. It's that simple. WRDW is a Top 40 station with a rhythmic lean. It directly targets the same audience as Q102.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, and you're certainly entitled to your own opinions but your last 2 sentences and this post in general tells me you have no understanding of how the radio business works or how stations compete for certain demographics. You may see things as a listener or recognize trends, but your behavior does not represent the audience at large.

 

[pab]

Modern oldies sounds like Gen X to me which has failed in most places its been tried.

As is too often the case, the failure can be the fault of the execution and not the format. The fact that WBEN-FM is still going when other "Jack" stations have disappeared should tell you something.

Back when I was starting out in broadcasting in the mid-80's, "oldies" were 1955 through 10 years ago. By that reckoning oldies stations today should be playing Nickelback, Jimmy Eat World, and Kelly Clarkson. But people's concept of the format has changed from "classics you remember" to "stuff baby boomers listened to growing up." As a result there isn't much out there in the way of classics for the younger end of the money demo.

"Modern Oldies" should start in 1979, the point where Punk and New Wave started asserting themselves over disco, and end (just as oldies did two decades back) 10 years before the current day. Concentrate on the Billboard Top 100 of each year prior to Soundscan (1990) and the top 100 from the pop and rock charts for years afterward with a good heavy dose of recognizable "forgotten hits" and one-hit wonders to fill out a 2500 song library with 750 core songs.

You try that format and it will be a hit. But you need to have patience for it to grow, something most big corporate stations don't.

And as I said in my blog a while back (http://cnx.com/?p=1504), for anyone willing to try my theories, I work cheap.

 

[doowopvault]

Every time I log on here, I find stations being sold, stations being bought out, format changes, genre changes and I just sit here and laugh. Why? you ask, because with prior discussions about why radio smells like a decomposing corpse, I have been told that my ideas were wrong. I've been told that "nobody wants to hear Standars, Doo Wop, 50's and 60's etc etc. Play the modern top 40 stuff that the younger people are listening to today, that's what makes the money, the bills have to be paid".

Well, the stations that are playing it are STILL being sold, are Still making changes, WHY? first off, I remember being told, years ago, in the 70's by a friend that Rock and Jazz were dead. What has happened is that Rock and Jazz branched off into offshoots and mutations. It's all a bunch of hybrid styles or substyles.

Years ago we had Big Band, Standards, Jazz, Country, Doo Wop, Soul,R&B, then Disco, then Punk Rock, emo, jam band rock, electronica rock, death metal, heavy metal, hard rock, folk rock, lilith rock. Now, years later, we have top 40 pop, Rap, Hip Hop, Gangsta Rap and Electro, Euro Dance,Techno House, Trance,Hard Style, Break Beat,Drum & Bass and many more.


The point is, back in Radio's hayday,there were five major genres that radio played, so the odds were better to put a station on the air, play one of the five, couple this with a great jock,and the chances were good that you would have a decent listener base and make some money.Today, with the dozens of different styles of music,what ever way a station chooses to go, you are only going to hit a small percentage of the listening audience.As the different styles of music continues to grow, so will the audience, which means less listeners for radio, no matter what they play.


And this is why Internet radio has soooo many listeners, along with Satellite,there is something for everybody. The mindset of the people that own stations, along with it's followers, remind me of republicans and their trickle down advocates. they keep going back to the same old strategies that have been tried over and over and over again, the only thing different is the name given to the idea. They think if they give it a different name, it's an original idea. lol lol face it, what ever way a station chooses to go, what ever they choose to play, you are not going to be hitting a huge segment anymore because of the vast tastes of the public, so be statisfied with marginal profits, or don't own a station.

 

[imhomerjay]

Which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for playing a largely unsellable product on a local station.

Just like TV ultimately led to a sea change in the way "radio" had to be run, so too is digital in its own way. Bringing spoken word to FM is logical, as it (currently) still has the capacity to deliver what isn't easily accessable online and where local actually matters (in varying degrees)--sports, news, talk. For now, there still is room for some "mass appeal" music--ACs, CHRs, rock, etc. But doo-wop? No, not going to recussitate things. And simply throwing jocks, jingles or what have you at it isn't going to suddenly make that more profitable.

 

[radiophiler]

I remember listening to an AM top 40 station where I grew up in 1978. It had a Sunday morning oldies show. Oldies then were considered to be from the late 50s into the early 70s. By those standards, today's oldies would be music from 1990 to 2007.

It's not that there are no listeners for music from the 50s to 1970. It's that companies seeking radio advertising aren't seeking those stations. The decades channels from the 40s 50s and 60s survive ... and thrive ... on Sirius/XM because it's a paid service. That and because the platform includes many other types of music besides the hits of those decades.

So, imagine for a moment that you own a radio station (an AM/FM type, not Internet). You try oldies from 1955-1974 as a format. You can't get enough advertising to pay the bills. You've tried different sales people, a new sales manager, a new rate card, everything in the radio sales play book, but nothing brings in more money. What do you do next?

Change format to something that's going to bring in money.

I wouldn't be so quick to put all the blame on radio. Put some of the blame on advertisers.

Then be happy that we live in an age when the alternatives of Internet and satellite radio exist so that genres of music that don't get AM and FM play do have a platform somewhere.

In a few short years, I'll pass into the age bracket that advertisers don't care about anymore. I'm glad I have XM and Pandora so that when the time comes, I'll still be able to listen to the music that I grew up with long after FM radio stops playing it.

 

[imhomerjay]

What says there is "blame" to be had?

Advertisers go where the money is. It is a business all around, after all. That there isn't enough demand from the 55+ audience (or whatever age you want to pick for a given discussion) to drive the kind of broadcast spending that makes a station viable, it's not the advertising community's fault. It might change over time, but for now, it's not there to the degree to make it work in most cases (exceptions aside).

 

[pab]

People are also forgetting that ratings, in and of themselves, are not the end all be all. A station with a "fringe" format (which "oldies" is fast becoming) can outbill a cookie-cutter 25-54 targeted station under certain circumstances. CBS, for example, is still doing rather well with WOGL. Well enough that it wasn't the station blown up for WIP-FM, which says a lot.

 

[Radio Wreck]

CBS, for example, is still doing rather well with WOGL. Well enough that it wasn't the station blown up for WIP-FM, which says a lot.

WOGL is hardly an oldies station. Most people who listen to WOGL now are in their 40's and 50's. What's strange is those same people who are listening to Harvey Holiday today remember him from when their parents listened to him in the 70's and 80's when he played "real oldies." Most other radio personalities aren't able to make that transition. I'm surprised he's still there. It's strange to hear someone play The Cleftones and Frankie Lymon on Sunday night and then hear the same guy play Madonna on Monday morning. It seems very odd and out of place and I think it's unusual for someone to be able to identify with both generations on the radio.

 

[aindik]

People are also forgetting that ratings, in and of themselves, are not the end all be all. A station with a "fringe" format (which "oldies" is fast becoming) can outbill a cookie-cutter 25-54 targeted station under certain circumstances. CBS, for example, is still doing rather well with WOGL. Well enough that it wasn't the station blown up for WIP-FM, which says a lot.

It says a lot more about the station that was blown up than it says about the station that wasn't.

 

[dlewin]

WPEN- FM: NOT changing!.. FM sports = NO music fees... Also they are still doing very as "Philly's 1st FM Sports station"

WPEN-AM Sure, I can see some change but what who knows.

WBEN- MAYBE in about 3 years a 70/80/90's format.

WPEN - Alternative
WPHI - Will be sold - most likely to CBS or an out of market company.
WBEN - Oldies or CHR


WBEN is unlikely - but it'll happen within 2 years.
What are your thoughts and predictions?

 

[MDefl]

I see that radio fan is still on the PEN changes format kick. I am willing to bet $100 to charity that PEN FM does not have a format change in the next 12 months.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

I see that radio fan is still on the PEN changes format kick. I am willing to bet $100 to charity that PEN FM does not have a format change in the next 12 months.

I'll take that bet.

 

[MDefl]

Fantastic. $100 to the other's charity beginning. I will contribute $100 to your charity if WPEN FM makes a format change at any time before 2/27/13 and you will do likewise for my charity if they do not. To be very clear, a change in programs itself is not a format change. They would have to move away from sports talk as their main focus.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

Fantastic. $100 to the other's charity beginning. I will contribute $100 to your charity if WPEN FM makes a format change at any time before 2/27/13 and you will do likewise for my charity if they do not. To be very clear, a change in programs itself is not a format change. They would have to move away from sports talk as their main focus.

By 2/27/2013. It's a deal.

 

[MDefl]

OK - I will bump this thread once in a while so it remains active.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

OK - I will bump this thread once in a while so it remains active.

I'll set a reminder on my laptop too.

 

[MDefl]

Either way a charity will benefit so there is no real loser.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

If I may ask, why do you think WPEN will stick around for another year?

 

[ccuphl]

If I may ask, why do you think WPEN will stick around for another year?

If WPEN-FM changes format, WIP-FM will give WMMR (one of the highest billing stations in the market) a run for it's money, literally and figuratively speaking.

Why was sports put on 97.5? To give WIP (which wasn't on FM at the time) competition to keep WMMR on top. Why will sports stay on 97.5? To give WIP (now on FM) competition to keep WMMR on top.

 

[phils07]

I think The Fanatic will stay around for at least another year. They have big names like Tony Bruno and Mike Missanelli. It's the #2 sports station hovering around a 1.8-2.1, which is doing higher than the #2 sports talkers in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Dallas.