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Free Form Rock n Roll Radio

> Long-time readers of this board know you are one of Ladd's
> buddies and will stick up for him whenever he starts taking
> some on this board.

I have said very little about Ladd himself in this thread. (Go back and reread my posts.) While it is true that we are friends of a sort off the air, bringing that up to argue against my comments here isn't fair.

> Based on a pure variety of music, one could argue that the
> Mighty 690 of the early 80's was more "free form" with
> variety than Ladd's current mix of Doors, Floyd, Eagles,
> Petty, Zep and more Doors even though they had a very tight
> playlist as far as an on air library.

I needed that laugh, Flip. The Mighty 690 free-form? Did their jocks pick the music? No, it was a controlled playlist ... even more so than the current KLOS.

> I like listening to Ladd and appreciate that he fights for
> what most of us think is "right" with radio. On the other
> hand he can be an obnoxious ass sometimes with his arrogant
> attitude to music and politics he doesn't like.

Does it make you feel better to know that Ladd makes me crazy too when he goes overboard on the commentary?<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
A little bit of Heaven, 106.7

> the Mighty 690 of the early 80's was more "free form" with
> variety than Ladd's current mix of Doors, Floyd, Eagles,
> Petty, Zep and more Doors even though they had a very tight
> playlist as far as an on air library.

WHAT? The Mighty 690 was as tight as they came. Jocks who just inserted liners, and played the best new 69 singles from the new Modern Rock explosion. I'm still trying to figure out how that could be considered "free form" by ANY stretch of the imagination. Gosh I miss the Mighty 690!

> I like listening to Ladd and appreciate that he fights for
> what most of us think is "right" with radio. On the other
> hand he can be an obnoxious ass sometimes with his arrogant
> attitude to music and politics he doesn't like.

I never liked listening to Ladd, or BMR, BC, Cynthia Fox, Ace, Paraquat Kelley, or even the Burner Mary Turner, or was that Humble Harve? In fact if you were a diehard KMET listener, there was a good chance I wouldn't have liked you either during my High School days. That's because Progressive K-WEST 106 (Turn it up!) was all consuming for me, a lifestyle choice if you will, similar to what KROQ FM was from 1979 through the early 90's.
 
Re: Points of clarification.

Doc: I can't agree. You just don't have the facts. While programming
KBLA (the forerunner to KROQ) Humble Harve, and other jocks like
Dave Diammond broke The Doors in late 1966, & other bands like Buffalo Springfield,Love, Cream, Canned Heat were introduced way back in 1966
on either KHJ or KBLA. "FM wasn't around". The point is it took
aggressive Top 40 jocks to introduce this music to the public.


Bobby Ocean could cut it at KSAN, do your homework. When KGB-AM
went progressive AOR Osh, did mornings & did very well. As far
as your talent pool theory, thats partly correct. But you still
had to have the talent to pull it off, BMR, Rabbitt, Tony Pigg,
Donahue, All had the talent to do other formats. Ladd is all
right, it's this posing as if he was the father of progressive
rock radio, its simply b.s.

> I have to take issue with a couple of statements. (Imagine
> that!)
>
> > That sealed it, coming from a guy
> > who could have never cut it at KHJ,
>
> Huh? Let's reverse that a bit and see if it still works:
>
> "Bobby Ocean could never have cut it at KSAN!"
>
> Nope, doesn't work. You've compared apples to oranges; the
> analogy is incorrect.
>
>
> > guys like Humble Harve and Dave
> > Diammond were introducing bands like Love, Canned Heat,
> > Cream, Doors, and others way before Ladd even cued
> > up a record.
>
> Do you mean to say that these great jocks were responsible
> for breaking these acts? Sorry, that's not right. Let me
> remind you that these bands came on the scene with Top 40
> hits before FM radio really even noticed them. Love and the
> Doors hit before FM underground stations even existed! Cream
> was a supergroup whose first single was an instant AM radio
> hit. So again, your analogy breaks down.
>
> > He never got it, the best free-form jocks of the 60's
> > & 70's were all Top 40 guys: Tom Donahue, B Mitchell
> > Reed,& Jimmy Rabbitt.
>
> Of course. That's because FM radio had only one talent pool
> to draw from: AM radio. And he did get it - Ladd became one
> of LA's best-known jocks because he related to the listener,
> both with words and music. "Innerviews" was a great program
> because he related to the artists too and brought the
> performer onto the same wavelength as the music fan.
>
> If you think Ladd's schtick has grown a little old, you're
> entirely entitled to that opinion, and maybe it's true. But
> don't go slamming his work with historical revisionism.
>
> - Doc
>
 
Re: Points of clarification.

> I think you missed the point Doc.

I think maybe I did, Brian, and thanks for being kind about it. I just don't react well to demagoguery, I guess - When I feel a big wind blowing, I always try to shut the door :)

- Doc
 
> The problem I have is that, when someone disagrees with my
> expressing my opinion -- and my remarks about the three
> posters was clearly labeled as such -- the easiest argument
> (and also the least appropriate) is to tell me that I am not
> allowed to express that opinion because I am also a
> moderator. I'd much rather read someone's opinion as to why
> my perception of the posters is wrong, such as the portion
> of your post where you did exactly that.
>
> To those who still have a problem after reading this, let me
> make it clear: I'm not going to curtail my opinions just
> because I am also a moderator. Learn to tell the
> difference, okay?
>

That's nice to know. Now let me make this clear: when I joined this site I have never disrespected anyone to whom I replied to. Therefore, I like everyone else here expect the same level of courtesy in return. The fact that you are a moderator is irrelevant to me. If no one else wants to say it then I will: you pal, have an attitude problem. We're not supposed to tell if you're in participant mode, moderator mode, or man in the moon mode. If you want to treat your red headed stepchild like that, fine but don't treat us with insults because we have a different opinion than you. After all, that's why we bothered to sign up, to talk about radio. Maybe your anger comes from when the little girls jumped you for your lunch money. Whatever it is, get over it. You're not that special, dude.
 
That angry rant isn't worth taking the time to construct a thorough reply to.

So I'll just say: I don't make you read my posts.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
This sound weird coming from me maybe, but let's not
get so personal. KM has a job to do which isn't easy,
I sure as hell wouldn't like it. He is due some
respect.


>
That angry rant isn't worth taking the time to construct a
> thorough reply to.
>
> So I'll just say: I don't make you read my posts.
>
 
Re: Points of clarification.

I think you don't like to be proven wrong. That's okay.


> > I think you missed the point Doc.
>
> I think maybe I did, Brian, and thanks for being kind about
> it. I just don't react well to demagoguery, I guess - When I
> feel a big wind blowing, I always try to shut the door :)
>
> - Doc
>
 
Did you guys read the full comment? I stipulated 690's tight, and by defitnition, controlled, playlist. Of course the format itself was not free-form, my only point was the variety of acts the station played makes even Ladd's show look scripted with the same sets.

(Ladd: "I have an idea tonight! At 12:00, we're gonna play a full hour of the DOORS! Please call in for the next hour with your favorite DOORS song and we will play back my favorite DOORS songs for a full hour in the 12:00 hour. Commercial Free DOORS! This is how we are going to give it back to The Man. Call in now with your DOORS requests. Free Form Radio lives!!")

The 690 played everything from standard pop top 40 to AC/DC to Juice Newton, to Disco, early New Wave, to crazy one-hit wonders like "Ah shaddapayaface". Which would you say has/had more variety?


> I needed that laugh, Flip. The Mighty 690 free-form? Did
> their jocks pick the music? No, it was a controlled
> playlist ... even more so than the current KLOS.


>Based on a pure variety of music, one could argue that the
>
> > Mighty 690 of the early 80's was more "free form" with
> > variety than Ladd's current mix of Doors, Floyd, Eagles,
> > Petty, Zep and more Doors even though they had a very
> tight
> > playlist as far as an on air library.
 
> Jim Ladd is starting to sound like a bitter old man
> he has to remember that K-MET 94.7 was a kick ass station
> based on hard rock not Dylan , pink floyd
> ......lord have variety of genre radio.......

Hmm, Jim Ladd. I remember hearing him on that free-form Long Beach station back when I left LA in 1970. Remember that? Still have my Progressive Radio Announcer card that he issued too. KMET was a hoot in the late 60's, but so was KPPC and KPFK late at night. Any of you remember 106.3 in Newport Beach back then? All the stuff that came after was not free-form in the Larry Miller - Tom Donahue tradition. Good, but not free-form. Unless of course you consider the reel-to-reel automation system that KMET ran with, fed and nurtured by BMR in 1968-69. That was truly random and free-form, because it was really random, chosen by chance by the machine itself.

Of course free-form was more than that. But I know it when I hear it. And it has been decades since I have heard any.
 
> Did you guys read the full comment? I stipulated 690's
> tight, and by defitnition, controlled, playlist. Of course
> the format itself was not free-form, my only point was the
> variety of acts the station played makes even Ladd's show
> look scripted with the same sets.

What you said:

Based on a pure variety of music, one could argue that the Mighty 690 of the early 80's was more "free form" with variety than Ladd's current mix of Doors, Floyd, Eagles, Petty, Zep and more Doors even though they had a very tight playlist as far as an on air library.

I read that as equating the old XETRA format as a variance of free-form. I do not see a discussion of their playlist as being within the scope of this discussion, as we are discussing format execution.

Also, early 80s CHR was rather wide-ranging in the first place.

I took my copy of the Whitburn Hot 100 charts book for the 80s and opened it to a random page near the beginning. I landed on November 21, 1981.

1. Physical - Olivia Newton-John
2. Private Eyes - Hall & Oates
3. Waiting For a Girl Like You - Foreigner
4. Start Me Up - Rolling Stones
5. Here I Am - Air Supply
6. Tryin' to Live My Life Without You - Bob Seger
7. The Night Owls - Little River Band
8. Every Little Thing She Does is Magic - Police
9. Arthur's Theme - Christopher Cross
10. Theme from "Hill Street Blues" - Mike Post
11. Oh No - Commodores
12. Why Do Fools Fall in Love - Diana Ross
13. I've Done Everything for You - Rick Springfield
14. When She Was My Girl - Four Tops
15. Young Turks - Rod Stewart
16. The Old Songs - Barry Manilow
17. Just Once - Quincy Jones/James Ingram
18. Let's Groove - Earth Wind & Fire
19. Trouble - Lindsey Buckingham
20. We're in This Love Together - Al Jarreau

Now, explain to me again what was so innovative about the Mighty 690 when all they were doing was playing the diverse variety of hits at the time?<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Freeform is alive on Jonesys Jukebox

Hands down the best music radio to be done commercially in at least 2 1/2 decades is Steve Jones on Indie 103.1.

Unlike Ladd, Jones is still breaking bands and has some of the most compelling dialogue I've ever encountered on radio.

it has renued my faith in the power of radio.



> I think you don't like to be proven wrong. That's okay.
>
>
> > > I think you missed the point Doc.
> >
> > I think maybe I did, Brian, and thanks for being kind
> about
> > it. I just don't react well to demagoguery, I guess - When
> I
> > feel a big wind blowing, I always try to shut the door :)
> >
> > - Doc
> >
>
 
> This sound weird coming from me maybe, but let's not
> get so personal. KM has a job to do which isn't easy,
> I sure as hell wouldn't like it. He is due some
> respect.
>
Everyone is due the basic respect that we all as civilized
humans deserve. Be it Mr. Richards or anyone else.
I don't think that posters have really wanted to get personal,
but are just reacting the way they perceive they are
being treated. I apologize if my earlier post upset anyone,
but I felt like commenting on what I have observed. I'm sure that
it's tough for any of the moderators to have to wade through all
of the posts on this site, and that they can sometimes become
affected adversely by some of the dumber, or mean spirited posts.

What I do know is that the pen, or computer keyboard in this case,
is sometimes a painful thing to be on the receiving end of.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by calguy on 10/29/05 07:42 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Points of clarification.

> I think you don't like to be proven wrong. That's okay.

Show me anyone who does!! ;)

But see, there you go again. Gotta have the last word. Gotta get in one more jab. Brian makes a well-written correction, YOU deliver a kick in the shins.

Do we have some issues?

- Doc
 
Re: Freeform is alive on Jonesys Jukebox

> Hands down the best music radio to be done commercially in
> at least 2 1/2 decades is Steve Jones on Indie 103.1.
>
> Unlike Ladd, Jones is still breaking bands and has some of
> the most compelling dialogue I've ever encountered on radio.
>
>
> it has renued my faith in the power of radio.

I agree with you about Steve Jones, Nick, and I always have. The problem remains how long Entravision will keep the Indie format with its heritage low ratings and low billing, when they could easily broker some ethnic programming and make more money.

I wouldn't put as much faith in the "power of radio" when you have Entravision as an owner. Look how faithful they were to KDL. (BTW, the word is spelled "renewed".)

As innovative as the Indie format is, in the long term it is destined to be on the long list of formats that have come and gone at 103.1; Surf/Ocean, Mars, Jazz FM, Groove, CD 103, Channel 103.1, Estrella, KDL have all occupied that spot in less than a 20-year period. There simply isn't anything that has done well enough in terms of revenue to be long lasting.

The logical thing to do would be to take the stations dark, since their signals cannot be upgraded, but that creates the worst possible ROI.

Enjoy it while you can. Sooner or later, something else will occupy those signals.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Flipper, very well done. !


> Did you guys read the full comment? I stipulated 690's
> tight, and by defitnition, controlled, playlist. Of course
> the format itself was not free-form, my only point was the
> variety of acts the station played makes even Ladd's show
> look scripted with the same sets.
>
> (Ladd: "I have an idea tonight! At 12:00, we're gonna play a
> full hour of the DOORS! Please call in for the next hour
> with your favorite DOORS song and we will play back my
> favorite DOORS songs for a full hour in the 12:00 hour.
> Commercial Free DOORS! This is how we are going to give it
> back to The Man. Call in now with your DOORS requests. Free
> Form Radio lives!!")
>
> The 690 played everything from standard pop top 40 to AC/DC
> to Juice Newton, to Disco, early New Wave, to crazy one-hit
> wonders like "Ah shaddapayaface". Which would you say
> has/had more variety?
>
>
> > I needed that laugh, Flip. The Mighty 690 free-form? Did
>
> > their jocks pick the music? No, it was a controlled
> > playlist ... even more so than the current KLOS.
>
>
> >Based on a pure variety of music, one could argue that the
> >
> > > Mighty 690 of the early 80's was more "free form" with
> > > variety than Ladd's current mix of Doors, Floyd, Eagles,
>
> > > Petty, Zep and more Doors even though they had a very
> > tight
> > > playlist as far as an on air library.
>
 
Re: Freeform is alive on Jonesys Jukebox

I agree 100 percent right o

Hands down the best music radio to be done commercially in
> at least 2 1/2 decades is Steve Jones on Indie 103.1.
>
> Unlike Ladd, Jones is still breaking bands and has some of
> the most compelling dialogue I've ever encountered on radio.
>
>
> it has renued my faith in the power of radio.
>
>
>
> > I think you don't like to be proven wrong. That's okay.
> >
> >
> > > > I think you missed the point Doc.
> > >
> > > I think maybe I did, Brian, and thanks for being kind
> > about
> > > it. I just don't react well to demagoguery, I guess -
> When
> > I
> > > feel a big wind blowing, I always try to shut the door
> :)
> > >
> > > - Doc
> > >
> >
>
 
Re: Points of clarification.

Doc, you might look in the mirror. Have a nice time.


> > I think you don't like to be proven wrong. That's okay.
>
> Show me anyone who does!! ;)
>
> But see, there you go again. Gotta have the last word. Gotta
> get in one more jab. Brian makes a well-written correction,
> YOU deliver a kick in the shins.
>
> Do we have some issues?
>
> - Doc
>
 
Re: Freeform is alive on Jonesys Jukebox

I think you are wrong about the billing.

Entravision was happy to accept the deal with CC which brought Entravision less than half the income of what they are currently billing without CC taking the net profit.

The exit of CC has made Indie even more lucrative for Entravision than they expected it to be.


> > Hands down the best music radio to be done commercially in
>
> > at least 2 1/2 decades is Steve Jones on Indie 103.1.
> >
> > Unlike Ladd, Jones is still breaking bands and has some of
>
> > the most compelling dialogue I've ever encountered on
> radio.
> >
> >
> > it has renued my faith in the power of radio.
>
> I agree with you about Steve Jones, Nick, and I always have.
> The problem remains how long Entravision will keep the
> Indie format with its heritage low ratings and low billing,
> when they could easily broker some ethnic programming and
> make more money.
>
> I wouldn't put as much faith in the "power of radio" when
> you have Entravision as an owner. Look how faithful they
> were to KDL. (BTW, the word is spelled "renewed".)
>
> As innovative as the Indie format is, in the long term it is
> destined to be on the long list of formats that have come
> and gone at 103.1; Surf/Ocean, Mars, Jazz FM, Groove, CD
> 103, Channel 103.1, Estrella, KDL have all occupied that
> spot in less than a 20-year period. There simply isn't
> anything that has done well enough in terms of revenue to be
> long lasting.
>
> The logical thing to do would be to take the stations dark,
> since their signals cannot be upgraded, but that creates the
> worst possible ROI.
>
> Enjoy it while you can. Sooner or later, something else
> will occupy those signals.
>
 
LA/Orange County Free Form/Progressive Rock 1960s and 1970s

KTBT (94.3) 1968-1969(Underground 94);Garden Grove
KMET (94.7)1968-; Los Angeles
KABC-FM (95.5)1968-1971; KLOS 1971-(The most mainstream FM of all of 'em)
KNAC (105.5) 1967 (PM Progressive); 1968-24/7 Progressive; Long Beach
KWST (105.9) 12/31/74 -6/81; Los Angeles
KYMS (106.3) 1969-1974 Santa Ana
KPPC (106.7) 1967-1973;Pasadena; KROQ-FM 1973(?) -
KRLA (1110) 1970-1972; Pasadena (Top 40/Progressive Hybrid)
KROQ (1500) Simulcast KROQ-FM
KDAY (1580) 1971-1973; Santa Monica (Top 40/Progressive Hybrid)

Is there any websites available to hear recordings of any of these stations? I've heard the KRLA "rock" era on Reel Radio...But that's about it.
 
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