Full-power stations that exist only to retransmit other stations

[justthenumbers]

OK, here's the official list from the FCC DB. Stations noted with an * are those where I'm thinking the satellite situation no longer exists...

Thanks. My apologies if I'm missing something, but shouldn't KNAZ/Flagstaff, AZ be part of this list?

 

[vchimpanzee]

There are lots of "state run" PBS where its the same PBS across the board in a state. Alabama, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Louisiana come to mind

North and South Carolina too. I think South Carolina may have one or two exceptions to the rule that all PBS stations in the state air the same thing, and Charlotte's PBS station is not in the state network, though the area does have a state network station.

 

[w9wi]

OK, here's the official list from the FCC DB. Stations noted with an * are those where I'm thinking the satellite situation no longer exists...

Thanks. My apologies if I'm missing something, but shouldn't KNAZ/Flagstaff, AZ be part of this list?

Could be. I have little confidence in the accuracy of CDBS fields that have no technical implications. There are several stations on this list which I know *shouldn't* be there, I wouldn't have any doubt that there are some stations that should be on the list but aren't!

 

[dhett]

OK, here's the official list from the FCC DB. Stations noted with an * are those where I'm thinking the satellite situation no longer exists...

Thanks. My apologies if I'm missing something, but shouldn't KNAZ/Flagstaff, AZ be part of this list?

Could be. I have little confidence in the accuracy of CDBS fields that have no technical implications. There are several stations on this list which I know *shouldn't* be there, I wouldn't have any doubt that there are some stations that should be on the list but aren't!

Yes, KNAZ is a full satellite, however, it does not retransmit the entire programming stream of KPNX. It only has the NBC feed; the wx feed on the .2 channel does not get retransmitted by KNAZ, or to KNAZ's lone translator, K06AE-D Prescott.

 

[Mr Tony]

OK, here's the official list from the FCC DB. Stations noted with an * are those where I'm thinking the satellite situation no longer exists...

(City, Satellite, Master st., Network) (this is not going to format well!)


MN
Chisholm KRII KBJR-TV NBC


This list is obviously not complete. But it's what's marked in the facility table in CDBS.

How do they consider KRII a satellite and WIRT which is the simulcast of WDIO (ABC) in Duluth not?
Heck WDIO ID's as "WDIO Duluth WIRT Hibbing" and "Channels 10 & 13" (10 being Duluth and 13 Hibbing). Whats even more ironic is in Duluth WDIO is on cable 13 and in Hibbing 13 is on cable 10

 

[fybush]

OK, here's the official list from the FCC DB. Stations noted with an * are those where I'm thinking the satellite situation no longer exists...

(City, Satellite, Master st., Network) (this is not going to format well!)


MN
Chisholm KRII KBJR-TV NBC


This list is obviously not complete. But it's what's marked in the facility table in CDBS.

How do they consider KRII a satellite and WIRT which is the simulcast of WDIO (ABC) in Duluth not?
Heck WDIO ID's as "WDIO Duluth WIRT Hibbing" and "Channels 10 & 13" (10 being Duluth and 13 Hibbing). Whats even more ironic is in Duluth WDIO is on cable 13 and in Hibbing 13 is on cable 10

There's a good reason for that, or at least there was in the cable era: the Duluth tower farm is quite close to the densest concentration of population in the city, and WDIO couldn't really be on cable 10 because of the possibility of ingress from OTA 10 to cable 10. I wonder if the cable carriage on 10 in Hibbing predates the existence of WIRT.

As for why KRII is listed as a satellite and WIRT isn't? That, I think, is a reflection that the FCC's satellite rules just really don't mean a heck of a lot anymore. The only real reason to list a station as a "satellite" is to get around the main-studio rules, and WIRT probably has just enough of a presence in Hibbing so that doesn't matter.

(Oh, there's one other reason: listing as a "satellite" is also a way to get around the market ownership caps. I think that's why WQMY in Williamsport is still on the books as a satellite of WOLF-TV in Scranton. I don't think there's anything much in the rules that requires a satellite station to simulcast its "parent," and WQMY doesn't simulcast WOLF-TV at all.)

 

[Apollo7979]

IL
Urbana WCCU* WRSP-TV Fox

This station is kind of interesting. In many ways its a satellite station since they run the same exact programming and use the same identifier (Fox 55/27 Illinois). However, GO-COMM runs different commercial logs for each of these stations. It also simulcasts the WICS/WICD-produced 9pm newscast, BUT WCCU and WRSP split simulcast to run their own weather segments (WICS produces WRSP's weather for Springfield while WICD produces WCCU's weather segment for Champaign/Urbana).

The other stations I mentioned, Sinclair-owned WICS and WICD have a similar situation as the Fox stations. However, they identify separately as "ABC NewsChannel 20" and "ABC NewsChannel 15," respectively. Each station also airs its own ID bug during syndicated and ABC programming, runs two different commercial schedules, and produces its own individual newscasts during the week. Weekend news originates from WICS and is simulcasted on both stations using the generic title of "ABC NewsChannel at ___."

 

[w9wi]

As for why KRII is listed as a satellite and WIRT isn't? That, I think, is a reflection that the FCC's satellite rules just really don't mean a heck of a lot anymore. The only real reason to list a station as a "satellite" is to get around the main-studio rules, and WIRT probably has just enough of a presence in Hibbing so that doesn't matter.

(Oh, there's one other reason: listing as a "satellite" is also a way to get around the market ownership caps. I think that's why WQMY in Williamsport is still on the books as a satellite of WOLF-TV in Scranton. I don't think there's anything much in the rules that requires a satellite station to simulcast its "parent," and WQMY doesn't simulcast WOLF-TV at all.)

Emphasis mine.

The rules used to be that a satellite station had to relay its parent at least 95% of the time. In a 1991 review, they realized that worked counter to the longstanding FCC policy of encouraging local programming, and they deleted the limit.

 

[Poledo]

No one mentioned Georgia Public Television.... that's a big old network of full power satellite stations and translators, I can't even count how many total signals they have on the air.

I wonder why most of the statewide PBS networks didn't turn up in your FCC list w9wi? None of the religious networks (TBN, Daystar, etc...) showed either. Are (were) there different standards for non-commercial stations even though many of the religious OTA satellite stations use commercial licenses?

 

[fybush]

At least when they started, many of those statewide networks made at least some sort of token commitment to maintaining local studios/local programming, so satellite status may have been impossible (or at least undesirable) to maintain. South Carolina ETV comes to mind; there was a time when several of those stations (WJWJ in Beaufort, for instance) did their own local newscasts, for instance.

You don't have to have satellite status in order to have your programming networked from a central point, which (again) kind of shows up the irrelevancy of the FCC's satellite-station rules.

As for TBN and Daystar, the FCC's satellite-station rules don't really contemplate the idea of a nationwide satellite network. (This differs from the NCE FM rules, which allow for main-studio waivers regardless of distance, which is how K-Love became possible.) TBN, at least, seems to maintain fairly significant local studios for each of its full-power outlets.

 

[w9wi]

No one mentioned Georgia Public Television.... that's a big old network of full power satellite stations and translators, I can't even count how many total signals they have on the air.

I wonder why most of the statewide PBS networks didn't turn up in your FCC list w9wi? None of the religious networks (TBN, Daystar, etc...) showed either. Are (were) there different standards for non-commercial stations even though many of the religious OTA satellite stations use commercial licenses?

The FCC has long held that the multiple-ownership rules don't apply to non-commercial stations. (there has been a non-commercial TV duopoly in Milwaukee since 1963, and it's by no means the only market with such an arrangement)

As for the religious networks.. they aren't generally concentrated enough in one area to trigger multiple-ownership restrictions. One TBN is not close enough to another TBN to have overlapping coverage.

And, while a non-satellite is required to have a local main studio, there is no requirement for how much of the station's program day must originate there. On Wisconsin Public Radio, for years the only program originating from each station was an hourly weather report, read by the transmitter engineer at each site. Everything else originated in Madison.

So actually, I'm a bit surprised there are as many non-commercial satellites as there are!

 

[firepoint525]

In the "olden days" (the '70s), it seemed like all WLJT-TV (Lexington, TN) existed for was to rebroadcast WKNO (Memphis) into the rural parts of western Tennessee. When WLJT moved their studios to the campus of the University of Tennessee at Martin (early '80s), that began to change, as they started becoming able to originate their own programming. (both PBS stations)

 

[dave73]

In the Indianapolis market, there's WTTV (licensed to Bloomington) & WTTK (licensed to Kokomo). I know the programming portion is 100% simulcasted, but not sure about the commercial portion. I however believe this arrangement is no longer needed, since WTTK was able to be moved to the Indianapolis tower farm, & covers nearly the same area as the other Indianapolis stations. It made sense in the analog era, when WTTK only covered the northern part of the market, while WTTV covered the southern & central part of the Indianapolis market. Since WTTV can't be moved further north & WNDY can't be moved further south, I believe those 2 should now be satellite stations.

 

[KeithE4]

In the Indianapolis market, there's WTTV (licensed to Bloomington) & WTTK (licensed to Kokomo). I know the programming portion is 100% simulcasted, but not sure about the commercial portion. I however believe this arrangement is no longer needed, since WTTK was able to be moved to the Indianapolis tower farm, & covers nearly the same area as the other Indianapolis stations. It made sense in the analog era, when WTTK only covered the northern part of the market, while WTTV covered the southern & central part of the Indianapolis market. Since WTTV can't be moved further north & WNDY can't be moved further south, I believe those 2 should now be satellite stations.

Except for the fact that WNDY is owned by LIN (WISH-TV), while WTTV is owned by Tribune (WXIN).

 

[Mr Tony]

There's a good reason for that, or at least there was in the cable era: the Duluth tower farm is quite close to the densest concentration of population in the city, and WDIO couldn't really be on cable 10 because of the possibility of ingress from OTA 10 to cable 10. I wonder if the cable carriage on 10 in Hibbing predates the existence of WIRT.

I lived in downtown Duluth for a few years so I'm aware of it
None of the networks are on their legit spot
CBS 3 is on 4
NBC 6 is on 5
PBS 8 is on 12
ABC 10 is on 13
FOX 21 is on 11

What sucked is when Duluth got a UPN for 11 months...KDUL-LP 12. Watching PBS you never knew if you would get PBS audio or UPN audio from OTA

WIRT has been around since 1967 so maybe they just put it on 10 cable as an ironic twist to the whole "10/13" numbering they use

As for why KRII is listed as a satellite and WIRT isn't? That, I think, is a reflection that the FCC's satellite rules just really don't mean a heck of a lot anymore. The only real reason to list a station as a "satellite" is to get around the main-studio rules, and WIRT probably has just enough of a presence in Hibbing so that doesn't matter.

The difference between the two is WIRT rebroadcasts WDIO 100% of the time. Same commercials same everything.
KRII has different commercials once in a while and has a 8 minute news/weather segment during the 6 & 10:00 news.

 

[KML0224]

Connecticut

CPTV, a.k.a. Connecticut Public Television:

WEDH-TV channel 24 (digital 45) Hartford [Transmits from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington]
WEDW-TV channel 49 (digital 49) Bridgeport [Transmits from Trumbull]
WEDN-TV channel 53 (digital 9) Norwich [Transmits from Bozrah]
WEDY-TV channel 65 (digital 6) New Haven [Transmits from New Haven] (may change to digital 41)

Massachusetts

WBPX-TV (ION) channel 68 of Boston. WBPX-TV operates WPXG-TV channel 21 of Concord, NH and WDPX-TV channel 58 of Vineyard Haven, MA. Also, there is WCDC-TV (ABC) channel 19 of Adams, MA. They are a satellite station of WTEN-TV (ABC) channel 10 of Albany, NY.

 

[RadioDaze]

Another statewide public TV example, the University of North Carolina network of 12 stations, has always operated as satellites with no pretense of localism at any of the sites save for flagship WUNC-TV in Chapel Hill, which operated as a standalone station for ten years before Columbia, NC's WUNB-TV (Now WUND-TV, licensed to Edenton) signed on in 1965. For many years, they even referred to the stations as "transmitters". This is pretty accurate as that's all you'll find in (more acutately, near) any of the 12 cities of license...even Chapel Hill (the UNC-TV studios moved rom the UNC-Chapel Hill campus in 1990 for centralized network digs in nearby Research Triangle Park, Durham).

 

[dave73]

In the Indianapolis market, there's WTTV (licensed to Bloomington) & WTTK (licensed to Kokomo). I know the programming portion is 100% simulcasted, but not sure about the commercial portion. I however believe this arrangement is no longer needed, since WTTK was able to be moved to the Indianapolis tower farm, & covers nearly the same area as the other Indianapolis stations. It made sense in the analog era, when WTTK only covered the northern part of the market, while WTTV covered the southern & central part of the Indianapolis market. Since WTTV can't be moved further north & WNDY can't be moved further south, I believe those 2 should now be satellite stations.

Except for the fact that WNDY is owned by LIN (WISH-TV), while WTTV is owned by Tribune (WXIN).

If only Tribune were willing to sell WTTV to LIN, then it could be possible. It could still be possible the 2 could be split if the creditors of Tribune sell off the company in pieces.

 

[quadraphonic]

I don't know if it's 'FCC official' or not, but WFPX 62 Lumber Bridge/Fayetteville NC rebroadcasts WRPX 47 Rocky Mount/Raleigh/Durham.
I imagine there are other Ion stations doing that too?

 

[PTBoardOp94]

If only Tribune were willing to sell WTTV to LIN, then it could be possible. It could still be possible the 2 could be split if the creditors of Tribune sell off the company in pieces.

No, LIN can't operate any more stations in the Indianapolis market due to the FCC's duopoly rules.