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Full-power stations that exist only to retransmit other stations
- Thread starter justthenumbers
- Start date
Scott Fybush said:
Not to get even further off topic, but how has KTTW Sioux Falls, SD been able to get away with changing their PSIP to channel 7 from their original analog channel 17. Their RF channel IS 7, however the FCC lists their virtual channel as 17 http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KTTW
I believe KTTM-12 Huron, SD is a full time satellite of KTTW, so that takes us back on topic
Jim said:Not to get even further off topic, but how has KTTW Sioux Falls, SD been able to get away with changing their PSIP to channel 7 from their original analog channel 17. Their RF channel IS 7, however the FCC lists their virtual channel as 17 http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KTTW
I believe KTTM-12 Huron, SD is a full time satellite of KTTW, so that takes us back on topic
Indeed it does. Clever how you did that.
The answer, where KTTW is concerned, is probably just that the FCC hasn't caught up with them yet. Using 7.x in Sioux Falls is highly unlikely to conflict with anyone else; the nearest signals that are supposed to be using 7.x are way across the state in Rapid City (KEVN), across Iowa in Waterloo (KWWL) and up in central Minnesota (KCCO), so until and unless anyone complains, KTTW can probably get away with it.
And speaking of satellites: I wonder if anyone at KDLT in Sioux Falls has considered the possibility of using 5.x instead of 46.x? KDLT is historically channel 5, having started out as KORN-TV on 5 in Mitchell, an hour west of Sioux Falls. They tried building a tall tower between Mitchell and Sioux Falls for channel 5, but eventually moved 5 back to Mitchell as KDLV and built a new "KDLT" on channel 46 in the Sioux Falls tower farm. Because KDLT and KDLV are commonly owned and in the same market, they'd be allowed to use "5.x" on the Sioux Falls KDLT signal if they wanted to.
In another attempt to steer back on topic, but also partly revisiting WTTV/WTTK, what's interesting about that main station/satellite combo is that WTTK actually started out as an independently-operated station under the original callsign WWKI-TV for its first four years of operation, before Tel-Am Corporation (WTTV's owners at the time) acquired the station and converted it into a WTTV repeater in 1987. I'm wondering how many of these satellite stations started out as independently-operated properties before being converted into a repeater station, because a lot full-power satellites are merely built and signed on with the intent to repeat another station's signal.
Going back to Birmingham:
WTTO-21 signed on in 1982 (4/21/82, to be exact) as the first independent station in north Alabama. WDBB-17 signed on a couple of years later. While licensed to Bessemer, which is about 15 miles SW of downtown Birmingham, it originally targeted Tuscaloosa, which is about 35 miles SW of its COL. By 1986, WDBB began targeting Birmingham, first as an independent station and then as the first station in the Birmingham market to affiliate with Fox. At about that time WNAL-44 in Gadsden (55 miles NE of Birmingham) signed on as a repeater of WDBB.
In 1991 WTTO took the Fox affiliation from WDBB/WNAL, and both Channels 17 and 44 immediately became full-time repeaters of Channel 21. By 1993, Channels 17 and 44 began operating semi-autonomously of Channel 21, with Channel 44 even picking up the WB as a secondary affiliation when that network debuted. This arrangement continued until the Great Affiliation shuffle in central Alabama in 1996. Although it's been well-documented on this message board, here are the stations involved in the switch:
WBRC-6: from ABC to Fox
WDBB-17: from Fox to independent, then WB
WTTO-21: from Fox to independent, then WB
WCFT-33 (Tuscaloosa): from CBS for western Alabama to ABC for the western half of the Birmingham DMA
WJSU-40 (Anniston): from CBS for eastern Alabama to ABC for the eastern half of the Birmingham DMA
WNAL-44: from Fox to CBS for eastern Alabama, later to become the Pax affiliate for the Birmingham market as WPXH
After the dust had settled, WDBB became a full-time repeater of WTTO, and WCFT and WJSU became full-time repeaters of what would become WBMA-CA-58, which is licensed to Birmingham.
WJSU-40
WTTO-21 signed on in 1982 (4/21/82, to be exact) as the first independent station in north Alabama. WDBB-17 signed on a couple of years later. While licensed to Bessemer, which is about 15 miles SW of downtown Birmingham, it originally targeted Tuscaloosa, which is about 35 miles SW of its COL. By 1986, WDBB began targeting Birmingham, first as an independent station and then as the first station in the Birmingham market to affiliate with Fox. At about that time WNAL-44 in Gadsden (55 miles NE of Birmingham) signed on as a repeater of WDBB.
In 1991 WTTO took the Fox affiliation from WDBB/WNAL, and both Channels 17 and 44 immediately became full-time repeaters of Channel 21. By 1993, Channels 17 and 44 began operating semi-autonomously of Channel 21, with Channel 44 even picking up the WB as a secondary affiliation when that network debuted. This arrangement continued until the Great Affiliation shuffle in central Alabama in 1996. Although it's been well-documented on this message board, here are the stations involved in the switch:
WBRC-6: from ABC to Fox
WDBB-17: from Fox to independent, then WB
WTTO-21: from Fox to independent, then WB
WCFT-33 (Tuscaloosa): from CBS for western Alabama to ABC for the western half of the Birmingham DMA
WJSU-40 (Anniston): from CBS for eastern Alabama to ABC for the eastern half of the Birmingham DMA
WNAL-44: from Fox to CBS for eastern Alabama, later to become the Pax affiliate for the Birmingham market as WPXH
After the dust had settled, WDBB became a full-time repeater of WTTO, and WCFT and WJSU became full-time repeaters of what would become WBMA-CA-58, which is licensed to Birmingham.
WJSU-40
One example that comes quickly to mind is the ion trio around Boston. The stations that are now WPXG 21 Concord NH and WDPX 58 on Cape Cod, relaying WBPX 68 from Boston, both started out as stand-alone operations. 21 was WNHT, and it took a stab at being New Hampshire's CBS affiliate in the late 1980s before going dark for a few years. 58 was a Cape Cod-based indie, WCVX, complete with low-budget local news.
There was a failed standalone NBC up north, too: there were two attempts to do local TV for the White River Junction VT-Hanover NH area in the 1970s and 1980s, first as WRLH-TV 49 (later 31) and then as WNNE-TV 31. WNNE eventually became (and remains) a satellite of WPTZ-TV 5 Plattsburgh/Burlington, and I don't think there's any separate programming on WNNE anymore. (There were at least local news inserts until a decade or so ago.)
There was a failed standalone NBC up north, too: there were two attempts to do local TV for the White River Junction VT-Hanover NH area in the 1970s and 1980s, first as WRLH-TV 49 (later 31) and then as WNNE-TV 31. WNNE eventually became (and remains) a satellite of WPTZ-TV 5 Plattsburgh/Burlington, and I don't think there's any separate programming on WNNE anymore. (There were at least local news inserts until a decade or so ago.)
Scott Fybush said:
The other most inexplicable example I can think of is the infamous WOAY in Oak Hill, WV, which was on the prized channel 4 in the analog age, but now uses its PSIP channel 50 to identify in the digital age. I don't understand why they did it; did they think PSIP was a passing fad and decided not to use it, or was it a 'viewers don't know we aren't literally on channel 4 anymore so let's use 50 instead' thing? Most broadcasters (especially in the Appalachians and Rockies) prized a 2-13 VHF signal, and do now, if just for the number I'm sure (and not the digital problems of VHF).
As for the WMLW/WBME example, really the only viewers who were affected were those on over-the-air and satellite, who just had to switch channel positions; most of the market uses cable and the only change was the providers grabbed WMLW's new HD signal, and it only helped that station because now shows that air on there aren't marginalized by a poor low-power analog signal, but air in full HD. They didn't even have much of an on-air campaign outside of tickers to let everyone know about the switch, and the providers got the switch down quickly (though the guide providers too awhile).
with its infamous 12 video and 4 audio channels
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=kaxt#station
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=kaxt#station
I know you didn't say this, but I remember seeing in TV Guide that WUND was licensed to Columbia. Why they felt the need to change call letters I don't know. The move to Edenton came many years later.RadioDaze said:
mrschimpf said:
There was a lot of confusion in the early days of DTV about how channel mapping would work and the extent to which viewers would need to know a station's new RF channel. I recall a few examples from the early DTV days: then-KBHK in San Francisco (analog 44/digital 45) had a "44/45" bug that it used for a while around 2000-2001, and WCBS-TV's IDs n the early '00s used to have a big "2 News" on top and a "DT-56" in smaller print down below. I think they still had some news vehicles with the "DT-56" painted on them even after the transition, when WCBS-TV's digital signal migrated from 56 to 33.
WOAY's use of 50 instead of 4 probably doesn't cause any real-world problems; the nearest virtual 50 is over the mountains in Washington DC, after all. But it may cause a headache for WOAY in another couple of years when the FCC repacks the UHF spectrum and almost certainly will send WOAY down to a lower UHF channel. There would be a tremendous irony if WOAY ends up operating on, say, channel 31 and still remaps to "50"!
There were a few stations promoting their RF DTV channels. In Detroit, WXYZ/7 was using a special "41" logo alongside their circle-7 logo for awhile. As recently as 2007, WWJ/62 was showing Channel 44 in their ID, but not mentioning 62.
Here in Hartford/New Haven, WTIC-TV (FOX) of Hartford uses channel 31 for their digital signal. They were channel 61 in the analog days. The "61" part is no longer mentioned, save for one spot where attorney John Haymond says "FOX 61" (for a weekly visit he makes on their Tuesday morning newscasts). Occasionally on the hour and in station promos, you will see, at the bottom center of the screen, in tiny ass print: "WTIC-DT 31 HARTFORD/NEW HAVEN". It's the only times I'm aware of that channel 31 is acknowledged. Nobody says "31" on the air at all.
Converting the analog to digital in Hartford/New Haven...
3 (CBS) to 33 [Hartford]
8 (ABC) to 10 [New Haven]
18 (UNI) to 46 [Hartford]
20 (CW) to 20 [Waterbury] was first on 12
24 (PBS) to 45 [Hartford] was first on 42 (?)
26 (ION) to 26 [New London] was first on 34
30 (NBC) to 35 [New Britain]
53 (PBS) to 9 [Norwich] was first on 45
59 (MY) to 39 [New Haven]
61 (FOX) to 31 [Hartford]
65 (PBS) to 6 [New Haven] may move to 41
Converting the analog to digital in Hartford/New Haven...
3 (CBS) to 33 [Hartford]
8 (ABC) to 10 [New Haven]
18 (UNI) to 46 [Hartford]
20 (CW) to 20 [Waterbury] was first on 12
24 (PBS) to 45 [Hartford] was first on 42 (?)
26 (ION) to 26 [New London] was first on 34
30 (NBC) to 35 [New Britain]
53 (PBS) to 9 [Norwich] was first on 45
59 (MY) to 39 [New Haven]
61 (FOX) to 31 [Hartford]
65 (PBS) to 6 [New Haven] may move to 41
M.J. said:
PBS station WYIN Gary, IN has been promoting that they're on RF 17 since they signed on to their digital signal in 2004. They only do it during station identification. Otherwise, they jusy call themselves Lakeshore Public Television. If it weren't for the FCC mandating them to map to 56.1, they would map to 17.1.
Here in Phoenix, KASW channel 61 was originally a WB affiliate and branded as WB 61. Later, it became WB 6/61, as the dominant cable provider, Cox, had them on channel 6. That morphed into WB 6 and finally, CW 6. Their analog channel was 61; their digital signal broadcasts on RF 49. Per FCC rules, they identify through PSIP as channel 61.x.
Scott Fybush said:
I get both WPTZ and WNNE... the only difference are the local spots (I even think WNNE's Master Control is in Plattsburgh.) Their news studio is now WPTZ's Upper Valley Bureau. It is very similar to the arrangement Gannett uses with WCSH and WLBZ except last I knew WLBZ had a 6 and 11 PM newscast during the week.
...for a while, WEAU-DT in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, occasionally used a "39" logo in the same pattern and type as WEAU's "13" to ID itself on the air as recently as five years ago; the channel 39 digital transmission was dropped on 2/16/09 when 13 flash-cut to digital from analog. However, the WEAU tower collapsed during an ice storm on 3/22/11, and when the replacement tower was completed last December, WEAU returned to the air over Channel 38, mapping to 13.1 (is there another station using Channel 39 in Western Wisconsin or Minneapolis-St. Paul?)...M.J. said:
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