Future of KKBW 104.9

[bobdavcav]

As Bongwater points out in a couple of posts, it's not that simple. Frequency changes and upgrades require a lot more than simply willing it to happen. FCC R & R contains mileage separation requirements... look 'em up and do your own calculations. I once was provided a proposal to move one of my stations to NEAR Seattle, and it involved something like 20 different moves within Washington and Oregon, in several steps. And that was several years ago. Every time a station upgrades, it reduces the opportunity for another to move.

The 104.5/104.7/104.9 situation involves more than just Aberdeen, Eatonville, and Covington. There's Wenatchee and a few others to consider. Covington and Eatonville are singletons; you can't take away sole service.

As far as spacing goes I've seen the table that provides spacing requirements on the FCC's website. Problem is I'm not sure how exactly to find the distance to two sites. I got most of the steps right, didn't I? There are two issues I could see,
1. I don't think there's enough space between KNRQ and KVAS if KNRQ were to move to 103.9. KVAS could possibly move to 97.5, but I'm not sure if that would comply with the spacing requirements to 97.7 in Oakville.
2. There's a class A in Roseburg that would have to move off of 103.1 to make the upgrade of KYTE possible, but if KSKR could operate on a Portland frequency as a C3, then moving that to 103.3 or 103.5 shouldn't be an issue. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if you could do a first-adjacent A to C0 from KYTE to KRSB.

 

[fordranger797]

Of course, there is also the matter of being willing to move. Any move of this sort can take place unless each, individual station owner is willing to make it happen. With so many station that would need to adapt, it's probably a lost cause.

 

[Bongwater]

Of course, there is also the matter of being willing to move. Any move of this sort can take place unless each, individual station owner is willing to make it happen. With so many station that would need to adapt, it's probably a lost cause.

Too many headaches, too many engineers, too much $$$. The paperwork alone could deplete a rainforest.

 

[fordranger797]

Too many headaches, too many engineers, too much $$$. The paperwork alone could deplete a rainforest.

Agreed. Its more a matter of finding a format that services the south sound at this point.

 

[crainbebo]

You'd have to work on CFUN-FM2 on 104.9, KDUK, KDUX, KKRV and maybe even the Sechelt BC 104.7 (?) and of course KMCQ. That's 6 that would need changes in this scenario.

-crainbebo

 

[fordranger797]

Part of me would kind of like to see 104.9 go dark. In all reality, however, the cut and paste format on KKBW is better than not existing at all.

 

[bobdavcav]

You'd have to work on CFUN-FM2 on 104.9, KDUK, KDUX, KKRV and maybe even the Sechelt BC 104.7 (?) and of course KMCQ. That's 6 that would need changes in this scenario.

-crainbebo

Ok I'm not sure I followed you there. KDUK is a C signal on 104.7 in Eugene. KXXO and KZEL co-exist just fine and that's a co-channel separation, why would KDUK need to make any changes? I also don't understand why CFUN-FM-2 would need work? Capital Peak is south of South Mountain, and the stations there co-exist sort of fine, but nothing that the FCC wouldn't approve. Why would KMCQ have to change? If anything they could go a full 100 kw.

 

[fordranger797]

Ok I'm not sure I followed you there. KDUK is a C signal on 104.7 in Eugene. KXXO and KZEL co-exist just fine and that's a co-channel separation, why would KDUK need to make any changes? I also don't understand why CFUN-FM-2 would need work? Capital Peak is south of South Mountain, and the stations there co-exist sort of fine, but nothing that the FCC wouldn't approve. Why would KMCQ have to change? If anything they could go a full 100 kw.

I think it was easier back then. There were less radio stations on the FM dial to deal with, and few LPFM's. Putting together a full class C station in a market like Seattle is probably as likely as KBSG and KWJZ returning to the Seattle airwaves. They recently crammed that 104.9 signal in Seattle in over the fringe coverage of KKBW, so that would have to be dealt with along with everything else. Theoretically, if CFUN was the only co-channel (not counting the 104.7's and 105.1's), South Mountain or Capitol Peak could work and co-exist.

 

[crainbebo]

Bill Wolfenbarger
"The 104.5/104.7/104.9 situation involves more than just Aberdeen, Eatonville, and Covington. There's Wenatchee and a few others to consider. Covington and Eatonville are singletons; you can't take away sole service."
Those few others are probably KDUK, as they boom in way into Portland and beyond, CFUN-FM2 104.9 and maybe some little translators.

-crainbebo

 

[fordranger797]

This is one fix that I see for this matter, and it involves the classic "move in". What if they moved the COL from Eatonville to Tacoma, and then moved the transmitter to Browns Point in Tacoma? If I recall, that site did have decent coverage into the city of Seattle, the eastside, as well as other Seattle suburbs. I suppose it would retain its function as a C3 in that scenario?

Probably a dumb idea, but it seems like it would beat covering all of the deer out in the countryside. The cost of engineering this switch would prove moving to be far from worth the expense, though.

 

[bossbill]

This is one fix that I see for this matter, and it involves the classic "move in". What if they moved the COL from Eatonville to Tacoma, and then moved the transmitter to Browns Point in Tacoma? If I recall, that site did have decent coverage into the city of Seattle, the eastside, as well as other Seattle suburbs. I suppose it would retain its function as a C3 in that scenario?

Probably a dumb idea, but it seems like it would beat covering all of the deer out in the countryside. The cost of engineering this switch would prove moving to be far from worth the expense, though.

As I earlier stated, it's not that simple. First, Eatonville has only one radio service, and given the crowded band, there is no service that could replace it. Plus, the frequency is subject to limitations due to co-channel, first adjacent, and second adjacent channels. Believe me, if the folks who do this stuff all the time can't come up with anything, the rest of us probably can't either.

 

[fordranger797]

As I earlier stated, it's not that simple. First, Eatonville has only one radio service, and given the crowded band, there is no service that could replace it. Plus, the frequency is subject to limitations due to co-channel, first adjacent, and second adjacent channels. Believe me, if the folks who do this stuff all the time can't come up with anything, the rest of us probably can't either.

Well I guess KKBW is just going to be one of those stations that will see a lot of change for the rest of its life. I think we all can agree, its a tough one to find an effective format for. I don't know if active rock is the way to go, but it must be making money.

 

[bossbill]

Well I guess KKBW is just going to be one of those stations that will see a lot of change for the rest of its life. I think we all can agree, its a tough one to find an effective format for. I don't know if active rock is the way to go, but it must be making money.

In this market, one should not assume that a business is making money. The days of radio stations "printing money" are long gone. Some cash flow, some don't. With the proliferation of FM radio stations since the Telecommunications Act of 1996, we not only have too many signals in most markets, audiences naturally gravitate toward signals they can hear easily, and generally have no idea of a station's "City of License". Back in the AM days, with fewer stations and smaller footprints, small towns had their "local" radio stations. The way FM signals propagate, it's not like that so much anymore.

In Seattle, can you identify COL for all the "Seattle" stations? 30 seconds... go

 

[fordranger797]

In this market, one should not assume that a business is making money. The days of radio stations "printing money" are long gone. Some cash flow, some don't. With the proliferation of FM radio stations since the Telecommunications Act of 1996, we not only have too many signals in most markets, audiences naturally gravitate toward signals they can hear easily, and generally have no idea of a station's "City of License". Back in the AM days, with fewer stations and smaller footprints, small towns had their "local" radio stations. The way FM signals propagate, it's not like that so much anymore.

In Seattle, can you identify COL for all the "Seattle" stations? 30 seconds... go

Maybe someone can answer this...

I know that a station must keep 60dbu coverage in their COL, but are they also obligated to provide some sort of local content (by means of a public service announcements catering to that community)? Up to this point, I never thought that the COL meant anything in terms of station programming. Looking at the Eatonville example once more, a Tiger Mountain signal in Seattle theoretically blankets south Pierce County with 60dbu coverage, wouldn't it hypothetically be possible for KKBW to move to a site that still keeps Eatonville in the fringe of the 60dbu? [Keep in mind that I mention this in the scenario that there are no co channels, adjacent channels, or second adjacent channels to think about]

 

[bobdavcav]

City grade is 70, not 60 DBU. As for programming, I don't know. There was a rundown on this board several years back of stations that don't do anything for the community they're licensed to. One example I remember quite clearly even though I haven't seen that post in a couple of years is 101.1 KEYF-FM/Cheney, WA city officials were stunned to know they still had a radio station. Of the other stations mentioned in that list, both KRWM and KIXZ at the time now KIIX were listed as having no local news or service to their local communities. What that means I'm not exactly sure, especially since KCMS and KCIS were the only two stations on the aforementioned list that were listed as having programming directed at Edmonds. I'm not sure how they came up with that analysis though. Yes some of the spots on KCMS do target more up into the south Snohomish County area than some of the other stations, but other than that what does KCMS do for Edmonds? How about the stations licensed to Tacoma? KHHO might have some local spots as their signal isn't that strong up north, but KIRO-FM, KHTP, and KBKS are also licensed to the same city. What do they do for the south Sound? Not much. They're all targeting the market as a hole.

 

[bossbill]

Programming specifically for a City of License would be difficult and not very productive. Listeners tune in to stations because of a good listenable signal and a format they like. The Commission does require stations keep a quarterly report of community issues and records of on-air discussion of the issues, but the community is not defined by the City of License. There are no yardsticks as to how much time is devoted to the issues.

It is much easier in a small market such as ours to cover issues of our COLs. We have stations licensed to Aberdeen, Ocean Shores, Cosmopolis, Raymond. We regularly cover these communities (and the others in the area) in our newscasts and on-air interviews.

 

[crainbebo]

KRWM does news updates in the mornings...but they are not all about Bremerton, they are about Seattle, Tacoma, etc. the prime demos.
The one station I listen to a lot from the Eastern Sierra (KSRW Sierra Wave 92.5) has 7AM, 8AM, NOON AND 5PM newscasts! All are one hour each. When was the last time anyone in Western WA had local radio newscasts like this - other than news/news talk stations?

-crainbebo

 

[fordranger797]

KRWM does news updates in the mornings...but they are not all about Bremerton, they are about Seattle, Tacoma, etc. the prime demos.
The one station I listen to a lot from the Eastern Sierra (KSRW Sierra Wave 92.5) has 7AM, 8AM, NOON AND 5PM newscasts! All are one hour each. When was the last time anyone in Western WA had local radio newscasts like this - other than news/news talk stations?

-crainbebo

With the ratings that KWRM gets, they best include every community in their newscast. I really don't think an hour is needed to get the news across; 10 minutes of news, sports, and weather at the top of the hour seems like plenty.

 

[notalent]

"They're all targeting the market as a hole."

Quote of the week!

 

[notalent]

A few extra details for the record on the former 104.9 translator on Mt Jupiter referred to earlier. The one that interfered with KFNK.

That particular translator was improperly built as the installer used a transmitting antenna different than what was listed on the CP/license and operated at a power greater than authorized.

In addition they were licensed to be fed by a station that could not be reliably received from the TX location. I believe it was a low power biblecaster on 89.5 in Covington or some where thereabouts.

The receiver had no squelch and a pretty wide open front end. Instead of muting upon loss of signal it picked up the (analog fm) edges of KAOS and was broadcasting that distorted off channel audio.

The owners at the time, from Olympia I believe, did not respond when notified of the audio and the interference.

After several weeks of broadcasting the sideband of KAOS on 104.9 they did reduce the power but did not fix the audio issue.

The FCC became interested and the translator ceased broadcasting on 104.9

That translator was licensed at 3 watts and actually probably putting out 10.

It disrupted KFNK reception from Seatac north.

The future UW Bothell LPFM on 104.9 will be 100 watts, but not on top of a giant hill.