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Giving up the HD Ghost
- Thread starter jas2525
- Start date
jas2525 said:
The only companies that are still holding on to HD are the ones heavily invested in it and "partnered" with iBiquity. The rest of the American broadcasting business has effectively hung a DNR sign on the patient's bed.
It's not so much DNR as DOA.
Between the 1% power outputs to begin with and the poor quality of most of the HD radios that have been made so far, the system never had a chance to take off. That's not even including the poor sound quality, the huge chunk of adjacents eaten up by sidebands and the entire AM side of things in total.
That said, I don't think FM HD is going to go away so soon like AM HD seems to be doing now. FM HD lets clusters put their AM on an FM signal which can then be ponied off to a translator in some cases. I see a niche where "complementary alternative programming" may find a home on commercial FMs with HD installed. Say, the main channel does rock and the HD-2 is alternative, or country/classic country, etc. Of course this has to be coupled with either a strong online presence or a translator or both to really take off, but the HD is just going to be the smallest part of the pie.
There will be certain markets where HD will never be viable and will fade away or never show up, and there are some markets where it can work reasonably well, like St. Louis or LA.
Last but not least, NPR stations seem to have really embraced the technology to expand their services (i.e. move classical to a subchannel while putting profitable news on the main analog feed) and they will seek to keep or expand those offerings.
So HD will be around, for better or for worse, for the foreseeable future.
Between the 1% power outputs to begin with and the poor quality of most of the HD radios that have been made so far, the system never had a chance to take off. That's not even including the poor sound quality, the huge chunk of adjacents eaten up by sidebands and the entire AM side of things in total.
That said, I don't think FM HD is going to go away so soon like AM HD seems to be doing now. FM HD lets clusters put their AM on an FM signal which can then be ponied off to a translator in some cases. I see a niche where "complementary alternative programming" may find a home on commercial FMs with HD installed. Say, the main channel does rock and the HD-2 is alternative, or country/classic country, etc. Of course this has to be coupled with either a strong online presence or a translator or both to really take off, but the HD is just going to be the smallest part of the pie.
There will be certain markets where HD will never be viable and will fade away or never show up, and there are some markets where it can work reasonably well, like St. Louis or LA.
Last but not least, NPR stations seem to have really embraced the technology to expand their services (i.e. move classical to a subchannel while putting profitable news on the main analog feed) and they will seek to keep or expand those offerings.
So HD will be around, for better or for worse, for the foreseeable future.
As I said before: behold the new digital SCA. Which doesn't even work as well as the old analog one, costs more, and causes destructive interference to the host station and adjacents as an ugly bonus.
BTW, I think we need to start an "FM HD shutoff" thread to track the quiet abandonment of HD by non-HD-Alliance stations. I suspect it's proceeding just like on the AM side.
BTW, I think we need to start an "FM HD shutoff" thread to track the quiet abandonment of HD by non-HD-Alliance stations. I suspect it's proceeding just like on the AM side.
Savage said:
Eventually, station managers are waking up to the fact that HD-FM is costing them several thousand dollars a month in electric costs. They are also noticing it is producing little or revenue.
Of course, just having it running won't attract listeners or entice people to buy HD radios. You still have to provide some kind of programming, which no matter how lame it is, still costs money. With budgets being fairly tight, it does not take a rocket-scientist to figure out that this is the wrong technology at the wrong time.
I think HD radio is already dead for any commercial or consumer use. I think the only thing it could be used for is for some sort of utility use. It could be used similar to the the way they used subcarriers on FM to broadcast musak to stores or reading services for the blind etc. It could also be used as an STL to relay audio to another AM or FM transmitter across town instead of using microwave or cables. I've thought about getting HD radio but where I live, there are only 2 stations using it. One is college jazz station with no subchannels and the other is NPR with news/talk on the main and clasical on the sub. I'd like to have the classical channel, but I can't see spending money for a new radio when I'm not even sure I could get reception. I can always find the music I like on the internet or sat. radio in the car if I choose. I think radio need to realize that they blew it big time with HD radio. This will go down in the graveyard of forgotten technology such as Betamax, Polovision instant home movie film, Digital Compact Cassette (DCC), Quad, HD DVD, RCA Seletavision CED video disc etc.
For FM stations, I would anticipate the HD signals would continue until the cost of the equipment is fully amortized, probably around fifteen to twenty years, or until the equipment requires replacement. Then a decision needs to be made as to whether it should be replaced and HD radio continued for a particular market, based on future prospects for the medium at that point in time. I expect NPR and public stations who most benefit from the medium to continue. Everything else will be based on an individual owner and market.
Pubcasters' interest in HD Radio is solely predicated upon getting additional NPR and local distribution streams (at taxpayer expense, largely) which in turn helps generate more charitable giving. The only significant source of receivers for pubcasters is giving away HD Radios as premiums in pledge drives.
As the sources for quality receivers are drying up, and the many technical faults of HD Radio are gradually becoming more apparent over time, I fully expect NPR to vigorously explore alternative distribution methods other than HD Radio. Remember, NPR has learned the lesson - it's all about generating content and getting content out there efficiently. They really don't care that much about the specifics of the vehicles used. Let's further recall that, as early adopters, pubcasters' HD plants are among the oldest in the industry, and will be first up for replacement when fully amortized, which will usher in the first hard looks at the feasibility of continuing.
I predict that public radio support for HD will slowly erode in the future - and the troubled system will have lost another "enthusiastic" initial supporter. I further predict political changes in Washington which will remove financial incentives pushing broadcaster adoption of HD.
As the sources for quality receivers are drying up, and the many technical faults of HD Radio are gradually becoming more apparent over time, I fully expect NPR to vigorously explore alternative distribution methods other than HD Radio. Remember, NPR has learned the lesson - it's all about generating content and getting content out there efficiently. They really don't care that much about the specifics of the vehicles used. Let's further recall that, as early adopters, pubcasters' HD plants are among the oldest in the industry, and will be first up for replacement when fully amortized, which will usher in the first hard looks at the feasibility of continuing.
I predict that public radio support for HD will slowly erode in the future - and the troubled system will have lost another "enthusiastic" initial supporter. I further predict political changes in Washington which will remove financial incentives pushing broadcaster adoption of HD.
Savage, it was Bush's FCC that approved IBOC. I do hope that AM HD dies, it flat out does not work.
I do listen to WGBH-FM HD2 which carries the signal of WCRB 99.5 FM which has it xtmr.north of Boston. I am south of Boston.
Has anyone north of Boston listened to hear how WCRB-HD sounds with all 96kbps going to HD1?
I do listen to WGBH-FM HD2 which carries the signal of WCRB 99.5 FM which has it xtmr.north of Boston. I am south of Boston.
Has anyone north of Boston listened to hear how WCRB-HD sounds with all 96kbps going to HD1?
To be fair there are some good quality HD radios. The Insignia portable HD radio is the best portable radio out there. And the Sony XDRF1HD is the best radio receiver. I doubt we would have had those innovations in radio quality if it weren't required for HD reception. HD radio will die, but these radios will last.
Nick said:
The Sony has already been discontinued.
Hopefully the existing units last a long time. Now that they are discontinued I take extra care to treat my XDR-F1HD well. I could care less about the fact that it has HD Radio, but for Dxing purposes the selectivity on this unit is the best. Of course Sony probably would have never put filtering this good in an analog only radio, I believe the filters main purpose is to prevent analog interference with the digital sidebands.
spunker88 said:
Out of a total of five Sony's, I have only three surviving, and one of those has a bad display (The backlight is out). One of the surviving ones has been sent back to Sony for warranty repair because it was dead out of the box.
One of the recently deceased suffered a power supply melt down right after it went out of warranty. The other one started sounding like "Max Headroom" speaking through the "Little Jewel Vowel Eliminator." It sounded absolutely awful, even on analog. Using the "reset" button did nothing to help. These failures happened several months apart, so both went into the trash. In retrospect I should have saved them for parts, but at the time you could buy one for under $80, so the adventure of fixing one was not on my agenda.
I also have a deceased Sangean HDT-1 sitting on a shelf.
Don't get me wrong. I like these radios, but their longevity seems to leave a lot to be desired. YMMV
D
Darth_vader
Guest
Yeah, Chuck, in fact you're going to find that in a lot of products these days. Almost everything made within the last 20 years onward has been designed to fail within the first year or so of regular use. This isn't something that's limited to Ibiquity System receivers. I usually only pull out my main XDRF1HD for DX work, and the rest of the time it lives in a dust-free padded nylon case in my equipment cabinet. I expect to get at least a good decade of use out of that rig. The one in the truck (the cheaper one, in fact; different vendor on Amazon) is my everyday rig, and will probably fail way sooner.
Generally speaking, longevity went completely out of the equation in the manufacture of household appliances at least as far back as the mid 80s. My Mum's already on her fifth washing machine since her '88 White-Westinghouse gave up the ghost two decades ago, and she's already working on her third dishwasher. (But it's a Bosch, so I expect that to hold on at least until I'm old enough that the AARP start seeking me out.)
Welcome to 1991. We've been wondering when you'd arrive......
Generally speaking, longevity went completely out of the equation in the manufacture of household appliances at least as far back as the mid 80s. My Mum's already on her fifth washing machine since her '88 White-Westinghouse gave up the ghost two decades ago, and she's already working on her third dishwasher. (But it's a Bosch, so I expect that to hold on at least until I'm old enough that the AARP start seeking me out.)
Welcome to 1991. We've been wondering when you'd arrive......
Darth_vader said:
Yep, it is the painful truth. Recently our four year old freezer crapped out (right out of warranty). Countless other devices either don't work out of the box or seem to expire prematurely, so it is not just a HD radio problem.
On the other hand, if a consumer buys a new device - say a nice new HD radio - and it craps out after the "wow" factor has worn off, he may think long and hard before purchasing a replacement. There is always some new technological bauble that may be more alluring. Since broadcasters have been fairly slow to come up with much that is compelling to listen to on HD (there are exceptions, of course) then a replacement HD radio may be fairly low on the list.
In fact, short of buying a new car, have you seen many HD radios in the stores?
Its hard to find well built electronics anymore. For example many typists consider the IBM Model M keyboard one of the best build keyboards, and it came out in the 1980s. Since then keyboards have become cheap, disposable and made overseas. The 1980s IBM keyboards were still made in America.
With outsourcing and cheap parts today's electronics are more disposable than ever. Part of it is people who demand a cheap product. So much for a society that wants to go green. If electronics were built to last we wouldn't have to landfill them all so quickly. Lead free solder used in electronics today fails earlier, and unless you plan on eating the circuit board using lead in the solder isn't going to hurt anybody.
With outsourcing and cheap parts today's electronics are more disposable than ever. Part of it is people who demand a cheap product. So much for a society that wants to go green. If electronics were built to last we wouldn't have to landfill them all so quickly. Lead free solder used in electronics today fails earlier, and unless you plan on eating the circuit board using lead in the solder isn't going to hurt anybody.
spunker88 said:
So true.
To wit, a company is making a model M style keyboard with the loud mechanical clacking keys and I'd love to have one. Too bad it's well over $100.
There are some more robust electronics out there, they're just considered "pro" grade and come with a "pro" price tag.
As one employed to keep equipment on-line, I see a very disturbing trend to early failures.
There may or may not be any difference in consumer/industrial/commercial equipment, regardless of price.
When something is built any more robust than the cheapest method, you will pay extra for it.
As "electronic" advancements now come at the "expense" ( shortsightedness) of no longer having to fully understand
the basics of electronics, we will see even more of this.
There are only a few gizmos in my life, electrical, electronic, or mechanical that have never had a problem/issue/bug.
The ones I like enough to keep get fixed immediately. Sometimes it may be sidelined or kept for parts.
At work, where it is HOT, I see many new things dying in a year's time, probably due to Tin/Antimony solder cyrstallization.
Everything is designed now in a way that seldom permits engineering for proper dissapation of heat.
I guess all this is why I have hung onto the old stuff that can be fixed.
Sometimes new stuff goes on and on....
A recent HP 8230 laptop went 7 years of daily, almost continuous use, before suffering a solderjoint issue
made it ever glitchier. It never died totally, I migrated everything neatly to another old HP.
The AM transmitter I designed/built in 1992 is still on the air 24/7 and has had only 1 part fail in that time,
an electroliytic filter cap.
My RS Accuriain will probably work long after the last HD signed off. I hardly ever try to use it.
I dislike the form, size, shape, cloddy multi-part construction, and the sound it produces.
The Accurian, and my wife's Kenwood HD car radio are the WORST sounding radios I have ever spent money on,
and the least satisfying to listen to, and have the most annoying controls ( excuse me....."operator interface"), that I
have encountered on ANY radio.
There may or may not be any difference in consumer/industrial/commercial equipment, regardless of price.
When something is built any more robust than the cheapest method, you will pay extra for it.
As "electronic" advancements now come at the "expense" ( shortsightedness) of no longer having to fully understand
the basics of electronics, we will see even more of this.
There are only a few gizmos in my life, electrical, electronic, or mechanical that have never had a problem/issue/bug.
The ones I like enough to keep get fixed immediately. Sometimes it may be sidelined or kept for parts.
At work, where it is HOT, I see many new things dying in a year's time, probably due to Tin/Antimony solder cyrstallization.
Everything is designed now in a way that seldom permits engineering for proper dissapation of heat.
I guess all this is why I have hung onto the old stuff that can be fixed.
Sometimes new stuff goes on and on....
A recent HP 8230 laptop went 7 years of daily, almost continuous use, before suffering a solderjoint issue
made it ever glitchier. It never died totally, I migrated everything neatly to another old HP.
The AM transmitter I designed/built in 1992 is still on the air 24/7 and has had only 1 part fail in that time,
an electroliytic filter cap.
My RS Accuriain will probably work long after the last HD signed off. I hardly ever try to use it.
I dislike the form, size, shape, cloddy multi-part construction, and the sound it produces.
The Accurian, and my wife's Kenwood HD car radio are the WORST sounding radios I have ever spent money on,
and the least satisfying to listen to, and have the most annoying controls ( excuse me....."operator interface"), that I
have encountered on ANY radio.
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