God Bless KTRB...

[Lou_S]

Matching the time electricity is generated vs. when it is used is the rub in most of the alternative power schemes. You must generate electricity at the instant it's needed unless you have a place to "put" it like into a storage battery to withdraw later. Or use the excess to pump water uphill into a reservoir then use it later to spin a generator.

Wind power is notoriously unpredictable. Since it can take several hours to bring a power plant online, every kilowatt contributed by a wind turbine is backed up by an equivalent amount of conventional power up and spinning on hot standby, consuming fuel in the process.

Even solar power is backed up by a running reserve, especially on cloudy days where the brightness of the sun hitting the panels can vary.

In KTRB's case, to carry them through the night you're looking at a battery bank about as large as that propane tank. Do the math with the initial price of the panels, amortize the cost of replacing the batteries every few years and suddenly running a generator doesn't look all that bad.

As long as the grid is out of reach, the real killer is not being able to use much more economical diesel out there.

BTW - I'm assuming that farm just to the south of the array is also off the grid? If not, I'd think seriously about cutting a deal to tap into their private line, even if it's single phase, and put a 5 Kw box out there.

 

[Mediaace]

Seeing as 3-phase runs up 84; why can't PG&E just string the service lines directly to the site? Is it the costs? Got to be cheaper than trucking propane there at some point. What would the ROI be? Thoughts? Sorry if this has been covered before but I'm dumbfounded to see anyone put this sort of investment into a broadcast property only to all but abandon it.

Matching the time electricity is generated vs. when it is used is the rub in most of the alternative power schemes. You must generate electricity at the instant it's needed unless you have a place to "put" it like into a storage battery to withdraw later. Or use the excess to pump water uphill into a reservoir then use it later to spin a generator.

Wind power is notoriously unpredictable. Since it can take several hours to bring a power plant online, every kilowatt contributed by a wind turbine is backed up by an equivalent amount of conventional power up and spinning on hot standby, consuming fuel in the process.

Even solar power is backed up by a running reserve, especially on cloudy days where the brightness of the sun hitting the panels can vary.

In KTRB's case, to carry them through the night you're looking at a battery bank about as large as that propane tank. Do the math with the initial price of the panels, amortize the cost of replacing the batteries every few years and suddenly running a generator doesn't look all that bad.

As long as the grid is out of reach, the real killer is not being able to use much more economical diesel out there.

BTW - I'm assuming that farm just to the south of the array is also off the grid? If not, I'd think seriously about cutting a deal to tap into their private line, even if it's single phase, and put a 5 Kw box out there.

 

[SFStatic]

Had heard from someone in the building at the time that it was going to be a 7 figure amount to run power in there. That, and the usual California NIMBY stuff probably were a big part of deciding to go with the propane.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

I've been to a few FM transmitter sites up in the hills around here with ZERO human life nearby (plenty of cows, though) and you could follow the line of power poles down the mountainside, across the foothills, mile after mile after mile until they faded into the distance.

I visited one site a couple of years back that was so remote that I began questioning how good a friend the engineer was, and how bad I may have pi$$ed him off at any point...

All things being equal, it doesn't appear that the KTRB night site is that frightfully remote in comparison.

 

[KBOS1965]

I'm just posting this because I don't think anybody else has. KTRB filed for STA to operate 20KW nights using a rented diesel generator. They claim that two propane generators on site are not working, and that repairs would be too costly. I'm guessing that the original problem with using diesel was based on the amount of fuel stored on site, and with 20KW they can get in under the wire.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

The STA (written by engineer John Burger) says KTRB "is operating" on the rental diesel generator, yet no one here seems to be able to hear it.

The FCC "granted" the STA two days ago.

 

[Rusty Muck]

On a hunch, I checked in to KTRB's website just to see how they were doing. There was a wholesale liquidation sale on that site - almost everything's gone.

The only two pages that remain are the contact us page (with lots o' HTML coding that didn't translate) and an advertising page, which merely has an e-mail addy for the Comerica executor listed. The 'contact us' page also now defaults as the front page.

There's no program schedule, no listen live, no front page stuff, no nothing.

At some point, it really starts to sink in just how much Pappas wasted away their company through bad decision after bad decision.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

At some point, it really starts to sink in just how much Pappas wasted away their company through bad decision after bad decision.

Well, when you build a night site with no permanent power within miles, yeah.

They were likely hoping they were building a 50 kW goldmine in San Francisco, instead, they got the economic shaft.

 

[DanStrassberg]

Well, when you build a night site with no permanent power within miles, yeah.

The best place for KTRB would appear to be a diplex with KKGN 960. I think the current 50 kW ND Days (currently at the KFAX site) could be duplicated at the KKGN site. At night, KTRB would have take whatever night power the FCC would grant from KKGN's three-tower array, whose orientation isn't perfect for KTRB but ought to be workable. My guess is that using the KKGN array, KTRB ought to be able to get 5 kW-N or something close to it--likely enough to deliver an NIF signal to 80% of the population of San Francisco, even given KTRB's 8+ mV/m NIF.

 

[Lou_S]

Is the Army still using those ship crane across the freeway? If so, they may preclude any high power operation from KKGN. IIRC, at one time KIQI had a restriction on their license to reduce power any time the cranes were in operation due to sparking from the crane's cables. KKOL in Seattle has the same problem with the Port of Tacoma after they built a 50 kw plant adjacent to the Port facilities. For the moment they're running fulltime on their night pattern at reduced power but the case is far from settled.

 

[DanStrassberg]

Is the Army still using those ship crane across the freeway? If so, they may preclude any high power operation from KKGN.

Since I am 3000 miles away, I have no way of knowing, but I have to assume that you are correct. However, all may not be lost as far as KTRB diplexing from the KKGN site. From a financial point of view (and maybe even technically--aside from the crane problem), diplexing full-time from the KKGN site seemed to make more sense than continuing with the 50-kW ND diplex with KFAX during daylight hours but diplexing (at lower power) with KKGN at night. However, under the circumstances, the two-site diplex: 50-kW ND-D from the KFAX site and 5 kW (approximately) DA-N from the KKGN site, seems to be the best alternative. First off, at no time would the power radiated from the KKGN towers approach 50 kW. Second. the higher power would be radiated at night when, I presume, the cranes are shut down.