Good Karma To Lease 880; WCBS News Programming To End

[K.M. Richards]

I’m hoping we get more news about that this week

Aug. 31 IS this week.

That's what I'm saying!!!

With the usual exclamation points, which still do not make your hopes any more likely.

Please, guys. Read what Lance wrote. Read what Scott wrote. Read what David wrote. Read what Big A wrote. Read what I wrote.

Even though you don't like it (and I suppose I can't blame you) we have been honest in our answers to you and in evaluating the situation. We all have the credentials. David, in fact, has been in the business longer than I have been alive, much less in radio (and that was 51 years ago for me as of last month). Lance has been reporting on the industry via his Radio Insight since April of 2006. Like me, Scott has been in this business forever. While I don't have details on the somewhat secretive Big A, I have read enough of his posts over the years to be able to confirm that he has to have been in this business for quite a while to know what he knows.

The common factor is that, whether you guys with your hopes and dreams want to admit it or not, RADIO IS A BUSINESS. All five of us, as well as many other RD participants, are professionals. We've been through ownership changes and format flips and the experience of management making both good and bad decisions.

The five of us, with our combined experience spanning several decades, know that whatever happens next on 98.7 will -- by necessity -- be a "safe choice". No one will throw away $50 million on a hunch. They will look at what has and hasn't worked in the recent past and find their own place among formats that have been successful.

It's not personal. It's just business.

 

[mightynine]

Here is "the news": there is no buyer or LMA partner out there, at least not one that wants its identity or plans revealed ahead of time.

The very high likelihood is that whatever's on 98.7 as of next Monday morning will be a filler format run as uncreatively and inexpensively as possible, and we will all find out what it is together by listening on 98.7 at midnight.

No amount of hoping or wishing on a message board is going to change that.

Again: 98.7 right now is that big empty anchor space at the mall where Macy's is a week away from ending its final clearance sale and returning the keys to the landlord.

Your best case scenario is that Spirit Halloween opens up in there next week. It's not going to become a cool indie bookstore or art house cinema. Do you comprehend that at all?

So you're telling me a J-Pop channel is starting on 98.7, got it! ;-)

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

With the usual exclamation points, which still do not make your hopes any more likely.

Please, guys. Read what Lance wrote. Read what Scott wrote. Read what David wrote. Read what Big A wrote. Read what I wrote.

Even though you don't like it (and I suppose I can't blame you) we have been honest in our answers to you and in evaluating the situation. We all have the credentials. David, in fact, has been in the business longer than I have been alive, much less in radio (and that was 51 years ago for me as of last month). Lance has been reporting on the industry via his Radio Insight since April of 2006. Like me, Scott has been in this business forever. While I don't have details on the somewhat secretive Big A, I have read enough of his posts over the years to be able to confirm that he has to have been in this business for quite a while to know what he knows.

The common factor is that, whether you guys with your hopes and dreams want to admit it or not, RADIO IS A BUSINESS. All five of us, as well as many other RD participants, are professionals. We've been through ownership changes and format flips and the experience of management making both good and bad decisions.

The five of us, with our combined experience spanning several decades, know that whatever happens next on 98.7 will -- by necessity -- be a "safe choice". No one will throw away $50 million on a hunch. They will look at what has and hasn't worked in the recent past and find their own place among formats that have been successful.

It's not personal. It's just business.

radioinsight is one of the only 2 industry websites i pay, very very fair price and i get my moneys worth and then some

 

[vchimpanzee]

Classical was 96.3/WQXR and 104.3/WNCN. WNCN got sold in the 90s from GAF to one of the iHeart predecessors and converted into a modern rock station, and later to classic rock.

I'm not sure it was modern rock. I remember it being hard rock.

 

[Weiserguy]

I'm not sure it was modern rock. I remember it being hard rock.

You could be right. Admittedly, I was not living in the NYC market in those years, and it was a few years before most stations started streaming so I couldn't hear it except when I was back East for a family visit or a business trip.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Classical was 96.3/WQXR and 104.3/WNCN. WNCN got sold in the 90s from GAF to one of the iHeart predecessors and converted into a modern rock station, and later to classic rock.

I'm not sure it was modern rock. I remember it being hard rock.

Well, you are both partially correct and partially incorrect.

WNCN was sold in 1974 to Starr Broadcast Group and went progressive rock as WQIV after a challenge by two listener groups who petitioned the FCC to forbid the format change went all the way to the Supreme Court, which refused to grant their petitions.* However, the dissenters formed a corporation and filed a competing application for 104.3; Starr sold the station to GAF to make that application go away and the previous call letters and format were restored in 1975. (That's the backstory that the chimp remembers, I think, and which Weiser omitted.)

However, in 1993 (which I believe you are both remembering), GAF found itself in the same dilemma regarding Classical as a viable commercial format and flipped to a hard AOR as WAXQ (Q104.3, the imaging it still uses 30 years later). They sold the station to Viacom in 1996, who transitioned it to Classic Rock; the decision was based on WXRK going more Alternative/Modern Rock and WNEW-FM was doing a bad job of going after younger Rock listeners. The "hard AOR" years may also be what the chimp is remembering.

(Sidebar: Viacom almost took 104.3 Country.)

Viacom sold its entire radio division to Chancellor Media, which subsequently merged with AMFM, which was in turn purchased by Clear Channel and is now today's iHeart.

But I don't find any evidence in my research that 104.3 ever had a Modern Rock-leaning format.

*-Postscript: When the matter was finally heard, it was determined that the FCC had no legal authority to approve or deny format changes, so the WNCN listener group essentially shot themselves -- and everyone else who would have tried a similar petition -- in the foot.

 

[Kent]

However, in 1993 (which I believe you are both remembering), GAF found itself in the same dilemma regarding Classical as a viable commercial format and flipped to a hard AOR as WAXQ (Q104.3, the imaging it still uses 30 years later). They sold the station to Viacom in 1996, who transitioned it to Classic Rock; the decision was based on WXRK going more Alternative/Modern Rock and WNEW-FM was doing a bad job of going after younger Rock listeners. The "hard AOR" years may also be what the chimp is remembering.

It was actually Entercom that bought WAXQ from GAF. It immediately swapped WAXQ to Viacom for its properties in Seattle as it wanted another station to pair with KISW. As quick as the timing was between the two announcements, it was almost certainly discussed, agreed upon, and worked out before anything was announced. Viacom likely wanted a tax free exchange in order to make the Seattle deal with Entercom. I believe the sale price was around $90 million.

 

[K.M. Richards]

It was actually Entercom that bought WAXQ from GAF. It immediately swapped WAXQ to Viacom for its properties in Seattle as it wanted another station to pair with KISW. As quick as the timing was between the two announcements, it was almost certainly discussed, agreed upon, and worked out before anything was announced. Viacom likely wanted a tax free exchange in order to make the Seattle deal with Entercom. I believe the sale price was around $90 million.

In a three-way deal involving a swap, I usually omit the third party. You are technically correct.

 

[ixnay]

This article was linked earlier in this thread - but the pertinent info as to what contributed to WCBS 880's demise was buried within 2 paragraphs:

Listeners Mourn Loss Of WCBS-AM, A ‘Once Indispensable Part Of New York.’

In the wake of Audacy’s announcement that “Newsradio 880” WCBS-AM will end its 57-year all-news format Aug. 26 — when Good Karma Brands will move the programming of “ESPN New

www.insideradio.com

"For the past five years, WCBS-AM has run a distant second to Audacy’s all-news sister 1010 WINS, according to Nielsen. That became a far more distant second when WINS began its simulcast on 92.3 FM in October 2022, with WCBS-AM currently averaging a 0.6 share during AM drive among adults 25-54 and 0.4 for adults 18-49 for 2024-to-date, vs. WINS’ 4.1 and 3.8 in those demos, respectively.

Since 2019, WCBS-AM was its most competitive with WINS during the height of COVID, hitting a 2.4 share high with 18-49s weekdays 6-10am in April 2020, while WINS, still on just AM at the time, delivered a 6.8. For 25-54s, CBS-AM’s highest point in the daypart was 1.9 in June 2020."
********************************************
In Bob Raissman's NY Daily News sports media column posted on Saturday 8/17/2024,
he revealed the leasing price range for the Good Karma Brands LMA with Audacy:
between $2 million and $4 million per year on the three year deal.

Subscriber only/paywalled:

Bob Raissman: Suzyn Waldman survives weekend with Craig Carton, but Yankees brass should say sorry

After Suzyn Waldman completed her three-game radio “partnership” with Craig Carton, did any Yankees suits thank her for participating in what easily, for the veteran baseball analyst, could have passed for a nightmare?

www.nydailynews.com

Looks like News Radio 880 towards the end was a very white elephant drawing fewer listeners than when the transmitter was undergoing maintenance.

 

[vchimpanzee]

(That's the backstory that the chimp remembers, I think, and which Weiser omitted.)

This may be the article I read. I'm not sure how much I could quote but I have access to it with my library card.

Metal peddling WAXQ in N.Y. market​

Stark, Phyllis.  Billboard; New York Vol. 106, Iss. 32, (Aug 6, 1994): 79.

 

[bmasters1981]

I listen to none of it. I hate Sports and Political Talk radio. That's not my thing. But I understand why they see it as generally a good way to generate revenue.

To be honest, I prefer sports radio over political talk, which is why, the way I see it, it could have been worse-- they could have switched to a radio version/simulcast of FOX "News" Channel, and called themselves 880 WFNC (they could also have become an Evangelical religious station as well, and I don't know what the call letters could have been in that case).

 

[K.M. Richards]

This may be the article I read. I'm not sure how much I could quote but I have access to it with my library card.

Metal peddling WAXQ in N.Y. market​

Stark, Phyllis.  Billboard; New York Vol. 106, Iss. 32, (Aug 6, 1994): 79.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Business/Music/Billboard-Index/IDX/1994/1994-08-06-Billboard-Page-0077.pdf

Confirms what I already said. WAXQ was a hard AOR.

Now, would one of you please explain why this is relevant to the 880 LMA? You've lost me on this siding.

 

[pjc1961]

The original post with the WNCN/WQXR/WAXQ reference:

https://radiodiscussions.com/threads/good-karma-to-lease-880-wcbs-news-programming-to-end.772738/page-36#post-6747412

Spiraled from there...

 

[pjc1961]

Regarding the WHSQ call letters:

In addition to Audacy already being in Hudson Square (345 Hudson St.), ESPN is planning to move its TV studios from the South Street Seaport location
to the new 7 Hudson Square location which is finishing up construction. Disney has offices near there already.

The radio studios have most recently been near Lincoln Center.

The ESPN New York sales staff will be reunited with the on-air staff at the new digs.

ESPN New York and Good Karma Brands Ready for 880 AM Era

The relationship between Good Karma Brands and The Walt Disney Company has stretched for more than a decade and taken on various iterations. Two years

barrettmedia.com

"Starting this week, the pattern of call letters associated with the 880 AM frequency has changed to WHSQ, a syntax that is embedded with an indication of a forthcoming relocation. ESPN New York is moving its local studios to Hudson Square in early 2025, hence the decision to adopt the structure of the new combination.

“We’re excited to have our talent and our shows operating in the same building where our sales offices are, and that’s a big factor of us moving down there,” (Vinny) DiMarco said. “It’s something that we haven’t had recently, and that’s a big part of it. To get the team – the full team – back together in the same building is going to be huge to just continue to drive excitement and camaraderie and collaboration.”"

Article including photos of the new building:

Disney's New York Headquarters Completes Construction At 7 Hudson Square in Hudson Square, Manhattan - New York YIMBY

Construction is finished on SOM and Silverstein Properties' 22-story, 338-foot-tall office complex for Disney at 7 Hudson Square in Hudson Square.

www.newyorkyimby.com

ESPN considering move from NYC Seaport studios and closure of LA broadcast facility

ESPN is reportedly planning to shutter its downtown Manhattan production facility at South Street Seaport ... Read More

www.newscaststudio.com

Included in the move are ABC News, WABC TV, and the live programs "Live with Kelly and Mark" and "The View".

 

[TheBigA]

Included in the move are ABC News, WABC TV, and the live programs "Live with Kelly and Mark" and "The View".

At one time, ABC owned a lot of real estate around Lincoln Center. Apparently they've moved completely, including the original building on 66th Street.

I loved the view at the South Street Seaport

 

[fybush]

At one time, ABC owned a lot of real estate around Lincoln Center. Apparently they've moved completely, including the original building on 66th Street.

I loved the view at the South Street Seaport

They haven't moved quite yet. That's slated for later this year. It's been on a sale/leaseback for a while.

 

[K.M. Richards]

The original post with the WNCN/WQXR/WAXQ reference:

https://radiodiscussions.com/threads/good-karma-to-lease-880-wcbs-news-programming-to-end.772738/page-36#post-6747412

Spiraled from there...

Thank you. Let me back the train up from that siding and get back onto the main line ... 🤪

 

[gimmethemoldies]

Regarding the WHSQ call letters:

In addition to Audacy already being in Hudson Square (345 Hudson St.), ESPN is planning to move its TV studios from the South Street Seaport location
to the new 7 Hudson Square location which is finishing up construction. Disney has offices near there already.

The radio studios have most recently been near Lincoln Center.

The ESPN New York sales staff will be reunited with the on-air staff at the new digs.

ESPN New York and Good Karma Brands Ready for 880 AM Era

The relationship between Good Karma Brands and The Walt Disney Company has stretched for more than a decade and taken on various iterations. Two years

barrettmedia.com

"Starting this week, the pattern of call letters associated with the 880 AM frequency has changed to WHSQ, a syntax that is embedded with an indication of a forthcoming relocation. ESPN New York is moving its local studios to Hudson Square in early 2025, hence the decision to adopt the structure of the new combination.

“We’re excited to have our talent and our shows operating in the same building where our sales offices are, and that’s a big factor of us moving down there,” (Vinny) DiMarco said. “It’s something that we haven’t had recently, and that’s a big part of it. To get the team – the full team – back together in the same building is going to be huge to just continue to drive excitement and camaraderie and collaboration.”"

Article including photos of the new building:

Disney's New York Headquarters Completes Construction At 7 Hudson Square in Hudson Square, Manhattan - New York YIMBY

Construction is finished on SOM and Silverstein Properties' 22-story, 338-foot-tall office complex for Disney at 7 Hudson Square in Hudson Square.

www.newyorkyimby.com

ESPN considering move from NYC Seaport studios and closure of LA broadcast facility

ESPN is reportedly planning to shutter its downtown Manhattan production facility at South Street Seaport ... Read More

www.newscaststudio.com

Included in the move are ABC News, WABC TV, and the live programs "Live with Kelly and Mark" and "The View".

Great timing. I just logged in about to ask what WHSQ means

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Great timing. I just logged in about to ask what WHSQ means

"New York City has a brand new "Q"". That's all I could come up with.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

This is really not something you would expect, or makes much sense, but this is apparently it.

https://www.newyorkyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image00057-1-2048x1536.jpeg