Good Karma To Lease 880; WCBS News Programming To End

[Kevin411]

But the biggest change in "suburban" advertising in the last 15 years is new, more efficient advertising methods. A jewelry chain with locations only in New Jersey has no reason to spend big money with WCBS reaching listeners in Queens or further out Long Island, who are unlikely to go to Jersey for shopping.
Those newer methods are primarily online advertisements with YouTube, Amazon, Yelp, Facebook and others. Even though the cost per impression can be quite high, knowing the subject had some interest in your products is

But ''Kars 4 Kids" is everywhere!

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

But the population density declines in proportion to the distance from the East River. So that area of Sag Harbor and the Hamptons that used to be a sub-set rated market in the sub-set rated Long Island market have very few people compared to those cities, towns and villages closest to Manhattan.

Not sure about 98.7, but many stations are on first adjacent channels, WBLI 106.1 is one that comes to mind, and have protected signals much closer to New York City.

I can't think of another reason for 880 to be an attractive facility vs. FM, except ground wave in the Eastern direction.

One way to address the fading issue would be to shorten the sectionalized portion of the 880 antenna so that the skywave ground wave fade zones are not in areas that are important. WABC always claimed that their 181 degree tower gives them a better signal because of that.

 

[Gregg.]

All-News is an expensive format to operate. Doing it x2 is a significant drain on revenue. And a huge part of 880's billing was the Mets, which Audacy has retained the rights to air on 880.

WCBS-FM has a higher profit margin and would not be sacrificed under these circumstances.

They weren't doing it x2 the last few years. Both WINS and WCBS had combined newsrooms. So it was doing it x1.75. Street reporters, writers, traffic reporters, production people were working for both stations. Now when a street reporter goes out to cover a story, or a newswriter puts a story together, they are only doing it for WINS. No double bang for the buck.

A large, but not huge, part of the billing was the Mets. But remember, when WOR had the Mets, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, it never made anyone's Top Station Billing list. So some of WCBS's billing was from the news format. WCBS made it to #10 or 11 every year. One year before WINS got its FM simulcast, it was WINS #8, WFAN #9, WCBS #10.

It turns out from a recent BIA list that WCBS-FM is America's #13 highest billing station. BIA says it billed $24,175,000 last year, just behind KTRH Houston. So that would not be sacrificed. But Audacy's Classic Hip Hop WXBK 94.7 is New York's lowest rated FM station.

 

[TheBigA]

So some of WCBS's billing was from the news format.

Maybe. Both Saturday and Sunday were filled with infomercials. I'll bet they paid more than the Kars for Kids spots during news.

 

[KMan]

Maybe. Both Saturday and Sunday were filled with infomercials. I'll bet they paid more than the Kars for Kids spots during news.

There were very few infomercials on weekends. Less than what KNX had before they were banished to the AM only.

 

[Kent]

It turns out from a recent BIA list that WCBS-FM is America's #13 highest billing station. BIA says it billed $24,175,000 last year, just behind KTRH Houston. So that would not be sacrificed. But Audacy's Classic Hip Hop WXBK 94.7 is New York's lowest rated FM station.

When David says radio's billing is off 60% to 2/3 from what it was in 2004 once adjusted for inflation, you can see it clearly here. In 2004, CBS-FM's last full year in the oldies format, it billed just north of $30 million. To move today's $24,175,000 to 2004 dollars, subtract about $10 million. So, WCBS-FM was billing $2.5-3 million a month in 2004 and is now doing about $1.2 million per month in the same year's money.

 

[TheBigA]

There were very few infomercials on weekends. Less than what KNX had before they were banished to the AM only.

Perhaps the word infomercial was incorrect. I should have used long-form sponsored programming. So the gardening show was an example. While Dr. Lederman was strictly an infomercial. In either case, it was brokered programming, not traditional news programming. Gardening shows, travel shows, financial planning shows are all sales tools. Sometimes there's a bulk buy of spots during the week and a weekend sponsored hour.

 

[luperm]

When David says radio's billing is off 60% to 2/3 from what it was in 2004 once adjusted for inflation, you can see it clearly here. In 2004, CBS-FM's last full year in the oldies format, it billed just north of $30 million. To move today's $24,175,000 to 2004 dollars, subtract about $10 million. So, WCBS-FM was billing $2.5-3 million a month in 2004 and is now doing about $1.2 million per month in the same year's money.

The obsession with billing is strange without a thorough look at expenses. It's abundantly clear why Audacy (and radio in general) has really trimmed costs.

 

[Weiserguy]

But the population density declines in proportion to the distance from the East River. So that area of Sag Harbor and the Hamptons that used to be a sub-set rated market in the sub-set rated Long Island market have very few people compared to those cities, towns and villages closest to Manhattan.

You'd be surprised, David. My wife and I drove out to the East End for a long weekend a couple of years ago. We stayed in Wading River (where I spent a couple of summers at Boy Scout camp). The camp is still there, but back then it was like the pine barons, lots of land and minimal population. It's not like that anymore. It may not be Queens, but a lot of that area has gotten developed. You have to drive further east onto the North Fork to find the "old" East End" of farm stands and charming little villages. We also took a side trip to Sag Harbor ("famous" as the home of WLNG) and the Hamptons, and that was like being in Napa Valley, you could barely move around for all the foot and vehicular traffic. So I think your memory no longer reflects reality.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

News stations rarely had infomercials on the weekends back in the day. It was usually for Christian Preaching and other Talk stations that needed to fill time on the weekends because the weekday shows were not on. But even as recent as 10 years ago there were infomercials on WLS-FM for example early on Saturdays, and that is a music station. That's obviously a sign of the times as far as billing

 

[KMan]

Perhaps the word infomercial was incorrect. I should have used long-form sponsored programming. So the gardening show was an example. While Dr. Lederman was strictly an infomercial. In either case, it was brokered programming, not traditional news programming. Gardening shows, travel shows, financial planning shows are all sales tools. Sometimes there's a bulk buy of spots during the week and a weekend sponsored hour.

I understand what you meant.

There wasn't that much of it though obviously there is variance if you are referring to two weeks ago, two years ago, or a decade ago.

Tanya Hansen did a full newsblock from 6AM-11AM ET both Saturdays and Sunday. Maybe there was a brokered hour after she wrapped up (usually on Saturdays), maybe there wasn't.

Until the recent changes about a year ago to replace the live news programming weekend late afternoons and evenings with WCBS Magazine, another anchor would follow after Tanya and anchor live mid-days.

Yes, there was some brokered programming. But it wasn't much. An hour or two on Saturdays.

 

[Kent]

The obsession with billing is strange without a thorough look at expenses.

If billing were going up, I would agree. Knowing that you have to cut expenses when billing goes down to maintain your profit margin, however, doesn't require an accounting degree.

It's abundantly clear why Audacy (and radio in general) has really trimmed costs.

Absolutely! Whether you want to say revenue is down 60% to 2/3 from 2004 when adjusted for inflation or that revenue is down roughly 40% from 2004 in today's dollars, the WCBS-FM situation makes very obvious why costs are getting cut everywhere.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

You'd be surprised, David. My wife and I drove out to the East End for a long weekend a couple of years ago. We stayed in Wading River (where I spent a couple of summers at Boy Scout camp). The camp is still there, but back then it was like the pine barons, lots of land and minimal population. It's not like that anymore. It may not be Queens, but a lot of that area has gotten developed. You have to drive further east onto the North Fork to find the "old" East End" of farm stands and charming little villages. We also took a side trip to Sag Harbor ("famous" as the home of WLNG) and the Hamptons, and that was like being in Napa Valley, you could barely move around for all the foot and vehicular traffic. So I think your memory no longer reflects reality.

I put in the Riverhead Zip Code 11901 into the V Soft Zip Code program. Not a single New York City FM was listed above 50 dBu. Granted, the New York City AM signals all show well below 1 mV/m, but I suspect if you go West from there, along the North Shore of Long Island, 880 may be heard well for a few miles inland.

Zip Code Signal | V-Soft Communications Propagation & FCC Allocation Software Broadcast/RF

zipsignal.v-soft.com

 

[Weiserguy]

I put in the Riverhead Zip Code 11901 into the V Soft Zip Code program. Not a single New York City FM was listed above 50 dBu. Granted, the New York City AM signals all show well below 1 mV/m, but I suspect if you go West from there, along the North Shore of Long Island, 880 may be heard well for a few miles inland.

Zip Code Signal | V-Soft Communications Propagation & FCC Allocation Software Broadcast/RF

zipsignal.v-soft.com

Driving east on the LIE, the NYC FM's have largely evaporated by Yaphank, Calverton, that area, consumed by adjacent-channel interference from the East End and LI Sound-adjacent Connecticut stations.

 

[davideduardo]

You'd be surprised, David. My wife and I drove out to the East End for a long weekend a couple of years ago. We stayed in Wading River (where I spent a couple of summers at Boy Scout camp). The camp is still there, but back then it was like the pine barons, lots of land and minimal population. It's not like that anymore. It may not be Queens, but a lot of that area has gotten developed. You have to drive further east onto the North Fork to find the "old" East End" of farm stands and charming little villages. We also took a side trip to Sag Harbor ("famous" as the home of WLNG) and the Hamptons, and that was like being in Napa Valley, you could barely move around for all the foot and vehicular traffic. So I think your memory no longer reflects reality.

I'm just looking at population per square mile of the East End vs. the far western part of "Nassau - Suffolk". It's still minimal by comparison.

 

[davideduardo]

News stations rarely had infomercials on the weekends back in the day. It was usually for Christian Preaching and other Talk stations that needed to fill time on the weekends because the weekday shows were not on.

If you go several decades back, those Sunday shows were on to comply with PA, Religion and Other program requirements. Most were not paid.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

If you go several decades back, those Sunday shows were on to comply with PA, Religion and Other program requirements. Most were not paid.

I was talking more about Christian Preaching and regular Talk stations running infomercials for herbal supplements on the weekends, usually almost always filling time when the weekday programming was not on. A lot of the time, Best Of shows did not exist. These days, some of those hours have best of replays for the weekday programming but not always.

 

[TheBigA]

Some former WCBS reporters have already found work:

Former WCBS Reporter Joe Connolly Finds New Home at WABC - Radio Ink

Business news reporter Joe Connolly has joined 77 WABC for a new segment highlighting area businesses after the closure of NYC's WCBS-AM.

radioink.com

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Some former WCBS reporters have already found work:

Joe Connolly always delivered such excellent business reports on WCBS without even a hint of political slant. I had tremendous respect for him so it's disappointing to see him go to such a partisan outlet, but I guess the options for talent are dwindling and they have to take what they can get.

You said reporters -- plural. Anyone else?

 

[pjc1961]

Though no one invited him, John Catsimatidis entered the chat to say that he had a deal with Audacy earlier this year to acquire WCBS, but it fell through. That was according to a story published yesterday (8/26) in Barrett Media...which has apparently been wiped from their site.

Just in case it resurfaces:

https://barrettmedia.com/2024/08/26/john-catsimatidis-i-had-a-deal-with-audacy-to-buy-wcbs-880-that-fell-through/

The story was likely based on the interview Catsimatidis had on the "Sid and Friends" program dated Monday 8/26/2024.

Podcast link to that interview below - go to the "4:00" minute mark to hear the discussion about WABC,
the demise of WCBS 880 and John's attempt to purchase 880 to turn it in to "a B-station to WABC".
He claims the sale was thwarted when "the Soros situation came out".

John Catsimatidis | Red Apple Media Owner & Operator | 08-26-24

Red Apple Media owner & operator John Catsimatidis joins Sid live in-studio to talk about how ridiculous it is the amount of criminals that are roaming free in our streets. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

wabcradio.com