Good News For Many of the Area's Country Music Fans

[TimeIsTight]

how many times can that pie be sliced up? PLJ, Fresh, Lite, KTU, Z-100 and then "FM News".

The idea for the format was dumb. Period. Just because TMZ works for a 1/2 hour a day on TV doesn't mean that a 24/7 format of it was going to work.

Yes, and the pie is sliced even further by the women that listen to WCBS and WINS. It's not like only men listen to these 2 news stations.

With fully one-third of all the potential listeners in the entire NY Radio Market tuning into just Lite, or KTU every week, there can be little doubt that PLJ, Fresh, Lite, KTU, and Z-100 share much of the same cume, and probably share most of the same young female listeners.

But, none of those are "foreground formats" that are more attractive to some advertisers, and if FM News joined the party it would have that advantage along with being able to squeeze in more spots per hour.

The fact that young women will watch TMZ, Extra or Entertainment Tonight a half hour a day is exactly why a radio equivalent aimed at them "could" work.

All that would be needed is for the target audience of women to flip over from the nearby FM music channels they now listen to, for ten-minutes at a time, multiple times a week and you've got a very sellable audience. They would do that for the same reasons they watch TMZ, and it would be there for them 24/7.

This would not be "their mother's" WCBS or WINS which, thankfully, don't offer that fluff stuff. Those two established real news stations are both over on the AM side, where the bulk of young women never go, and it's probably too much trouble to switch bands for ten or twenty minutes anyway. FM News was never intended to try and pull audience from WCBS, or WINS. It wants to "share" audience with the big music FMs. Just look at the cumes and demos of all the stations we're talking about from the perspective of advertisers who want to reach "young women."

Also, from the view of radio's actual customers, the advertisers, a "foreground format" would be something different than the music formats that their targets already listen to, while a Country music format would offer them nothing different except a likely smaller audience with likely less attractive economic statistics attached. They want the young professionals with extra money to spend, and McMansion dwelling, SUV driving, soccer moms who buy a lot of goods and services, not the folks struggling to make ends meet who find themselves working as waitresses or making minimum wage in Wal-mart. ( I know this is an overboard description, but it illustrates the point) Advertisers want a format that reaches out for the top of the economic scale, not one that they perceive as appealing to the lower rungs of the ladder. No doubt, news pulls in better at the higher end and the listeners pay closer attention.

 

[Jeffrey]

For many years, all the "experts" thought that a Country format would never work in Boston. Sure there were rimshots, but never a full market signal Country music station.

Until Greater Media's purchase of the former Classical WCRB on 102.5

WCRB went off to a rimshot (99.5) and GM moved WKLB's Country music format to a full signal.

Country in Boston, over WKLB, is now the #4 total audience station in the market.

Now, what's this about Country not going to work in the NYC metro?

Ridiculous.

Someone is missing a golden opportunity.

Boston to New York? Seriously that's like comparing night to day. Have you been here?

 

[nd2023]

how many times can that pie be sliced up? PLJ, Fresh, Lite, KTU, Z-100 and then "FM News".

The idea for the format was dumb. Period. Just because TMZ works for a 1/2 hour a day on TV doesn't mean that a 24/7 format of it was going to work.

Yes, and the pie is sliced even further by the women that listen to WCBS and WINS. It's not like only men listen to these 2 news stations.

With fully one-third of all the potential listeners in the entire NY Radio Market tuning into just Lite, or KTU every week, there can be little doubt that PLJ, Fresh, Lite, KTU, and Z-100 share much of the same cume, and probably share most of the same young female listeners.

But, none of those are "foreground formats" that are more attractive to some advertisers, and if FM News joined the party it would have that advantage along with being able to squeeze in more spots per hour.

The fact that young women will watch TMZ, Extra or Entertainment Tonight a half hour a day is exactly why a radio equivalent aimed at them "could" work.

All that would be needed is for the target audience of women to flip over from the nearby FM music channels they now listen to, for ten-minutes at a time, multiple times a week and you've got a very sellable audience. They would do that for the same reasons they watch TMZ, and it would be there for them 24/7.

This would not be "their mother's" WCBS or WINS which, thankfully, don't offer that fluff stuff. Those two established real news stations are both over on the AM side, where the bulk of young women never go, and it's probably too much trouble to switch bands for ten or twenty minutes anyway. FM News was never intended to try and pull audience from WCBS, or WINS. It wants to "share" audience with the big music FMs. Just look at the cumes and demos of all the stations we're talking about from the perspective of advertisers who want to reach "young women."

Also, from the view of radio's actual customers, the advertisers, a "foreground format" would be something different than the music formats that their targets already listen to, while a Country music format would offer them nothing different except a likely smaller audience with likely less attractive economic statistics attached. They want the young professionals with extra money to spend, and McMansion dwelling, SUV driving, soccer moms who buy a lot of goods and services, not the folks struggling to make ends meet who find themselves working as waitresses or making minimum wage in Wal-mart. ( I know this is an overboard description, but it illustrates the point) Advertisers want a format that reaches out for the top of the economic scale, not one that they perceive as appealing to the lower rungs of the ladder. No doubt, news pulls in better at the higher end and the listeners pay closer attention.

Too bad that the young women aren't listening. When it's being out-cumed by Family Radio even months after the world didn't end, and they're getting twice the ratings, there's something wrong with FM News. I can't imagine the higher income people listening to a news format that seems "dumbed down" compared to NPR.

 

[TimeIsTight]

You're absolutely right about the FM News "experiment" being a real flop so far, but Edison tried hundreds of filament materials before he got a working light bulb. That's just how trying something new works, especially when you want a long lasting success.

It now sounds like FM News is trying to be a pioneer in "automated" news, and a big problem is that their recorded reports, like sports, become outdated too quickly. Still, that would indicate they are still committed to all news but for more than just young women. If young women were still the main target, they might be trying female centric talk. (So how do you feel about this week's movie star marriage breakup?????)

I can't imagine the higher income people listening to a news format that seems "dumbed down" compared to NPR.

Unfortunately, most radio news sounds "dumbed down" when compared to NPR. People will listen to more than one news outlet depending on what kind of news they want. On TV, there are plenty of viewers who catch the CBS or NBC evening news shows and then hang around and watch the entertainment news shows that follow. There are probably even viewers who watch the PBS Newhour, and later catch Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. I've done it.

Apologies for going so far off the Country Music topic, but the bottom line is: In the New York Market, Country will work fine on suburban rim-shots in areas where likely Country Music fans live. But, on the much more valuable full market coverage stations, where spots are sold by the numbers, there are ethnic population, advertiser needs, and economic realities against it. For the few available full market signals there are too many other formats that are more likely to deliver what "advertisers" want, and advertisers pay all the bills. If there were seven more FM channels available in New York, one might be Rock, another Dance, and still another Country, but there aren't going to be seven more channels available for music formats, and there will probably be less than there are now as AM talk formats migrate over to FM to draw in younger listeners who never tune to the AM band.

 

[MarkW]

The mere notion that "young" women would flock to a lifestyle topic-heavy news format on the FM dial is absurd.

The fact that young women will watch TMZ, Extra or Entertainment Tonight a half hour a day is exactly why a radio equivalent aimed at them "could" work.

Why would they turn to a new radio station to get that info when they can already get it from: a) TV, b) innumerable online sources, and c) a number of morning radio shows with years of heritage in the market?

Blink 102.7, anyone?

Trying to battle CBS and WINS in the traditional news realm is just moronic, too, when you are trying to do so with just a fraction of their resources and talent.

101.9 will be ESPN Radio soon enough, assuming ESPN doesn't get its hands on 94.7 first.

 

[TimeIsTight]

Why would they turn to a new radio station to get that info when they can already get it from: a) TV, b) innumerable online sources, and c) a number of morning radio shows with years of heritage in the market?

They would turn to a new radio station for that info, for lots of reasons among them: when they are driving.

The info would be available 24/7 in any location or during any activity where they would normally use a radio. That stuff is only on TV and during the morning radio shows at certain hours, and its tough to read from the internet while washing your car or sorting laundry. Radio is an electronic friend that talks to you when you are busy with other activities but can still listen. TV and the internet don't work in those situations.

Trying to battle CBS and WINS in the traditional news realm is just moronic, too, when you are trying to do so with just a fraction of their resources and talent.

As far as trying to "battle" CBS and WINS, as stated previously, most young women don't tune to AM radio for anything at any time. CBS and WINS aren't on most of their radar screens. That's part of the point of starting an FM News station for them.

 

[HHH]

For many years, all the "experts" thought that a Country format would never work in Boston. Sure there were rimshots, but never a full market signal Country music station.

Until Greater Media's purchase of the former Classical WCRB on 102.5

WCRB went off to a rimshot (99.5) and GM moved WKLB's Country music format to a full signal.

Country in Boston, over WKLB, is now the #4 total audience station in the market.

Now, what's this about Country not going to work in the NYC metro?

Ridiculous.

Someone is missing a golden opportunity.

Boston to New York? Seriously that's like comparing night to day. Have you been here?

I am not saying that they are similar markets.

I am pointing out that "experts" are not always right.

 

[WNTIRadio]

They would turn to a new radio station for that info, for lots of reasons among them: when they are driving.

The info would be available 24/7 in any location or during any activity where they would normally use a radio. That stuff is only on TV and during the morning radio shows at certain hours, and its tough to read from the internet while washing your car or sorting laundry. Radio is an electronic friend that talks to you when you are busy with other activities but can still listen. TV and the internet don't work in those situations.

Nice sentiment, but it didn't work. Can we agree that the idea was flawed from the get-go? Perhaps a nightly 1/2 hour "entertainment magazine" at 6pm would have covered it in the context of an all real news station, with some quick updates about what's coming up tonight on the entertainment report.

And the biggest problem is that info HAS already been available on the internet 24/7. The internet DOES work in those situations because it's now boiled down to an app on a smartphone. People can put down their laundry for 2 seconds and read a headline about Madonna's baby.

That idea limited the potential audience to such a small slice of women as well. Forget most men for that format. And a lot of the women I know could give a rat's ass about pointless entertainment news.

 

[TimeIsTight]

Perhaps a nightly 1/2 hour "entertainment magazine" at 6pm would have covered it in the context of an all real news station, with some quick updates about what's coming up tonight on the entertainment report.

Perhaps all news radio should concentrate all sports and business news reports into a half hour of appointment radio a day too? That just isn't how radio works today, it's a little bit at a time, hopefully very current, around the clock so listeners can jump in and jump out.

And the biggest problem is that info HAS already been available on the internet 24/7. The internet DOES work in those situations because it's now boiled down to an app on a smartphone. People can put down their laundry for 2 seconds and read a headline about Madonna's baby.

Couldn't we say the same thing about all news and information? Since it's available on smart phones and the internet why bother to have news on radio or TV? While we're driving we can all pick up the smartphone and use an app to catch up on the latest Yankees score, why bother to broadcast the games? Besides on the internet you can pick exactly the topics you are interested in and on the radio they force feed you stories and take away your freedom of choice.

Agreed, that Walt Sabo's execution didn't work, and was really flawed from the get go. I couldn't listen for very long without it starting to make my skin crawl. I think it only fair to mention that there was more than just "entertainment fluff news" aimed at young women, there were good tips on child care, and I actually picked up a new way on removing skins from almonds in the kitchen. It was a radio version of the women's section of the big bookstore magazine racks, and there are a lot of "gossip" magazines there, along with fitness, cooking, travel, parenting, career advice etc. There are a lot of information areas that are attractive for modern women, and spoken word radio could serve those interests well, if it found the right presentation formula.

I give Sabo credit for trying something new, and there were very good business reasons for what he was trying. But it did not catch on in the time it was given, or with the limited promotion it had. I think they have broadened the target to include young men, and are still tinkering. They have invested in doing a news format in three major markets, when they settle on a winning formula they are going to push it big, and I wouldn't write them off until they give it that one big try. But until then they will tinker and may bounce around the ratings basement for a while longer. They, obviously, still have their eyes on the big all news prize.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Try and defend it as you might, it was a flop. All news stations are targeted at just about everyone, not just a small slice of an already sliced up pie. That's why this didn't work. Sabo fell flat on his face with this. It's like when you see a movie trailer and everyone in the theater knows it's going to be a bad move... everyone except the people that wrote the move and produced it. That's what the original FM News format was.

At least they've broadened the approach to more real news now. But with two heritage and very successful all news stations in the market, a half hearted automated approach isn't going to unseat them. It's like comparing the Newark Bears with the Yankees and Mets.

 

[MarkW]

As far as trying to "battle" CBS and WINS, as stated previously, most young women don't tune to AM radio for anything at any time.

"Young women" like zany, highly produced morning shows with ensemble casts that talk about the same type of garbage one sees on E!, ABC prime time, or MTV, mixed with plenty of phoners and opportunities to interact.

I am not sure why you believe they would be interested in the slopped-together, rip & read approach that 101.9 offered. Also, I am confused as to why you think 101.9's content would have appealed to young women. You must define "young" as over the age of 40? If their target was "young" women, they missed the mark by a mile!!!

Here's an idea, how about putting someone who actually belongs to the desired demo group in charge of programming?

 

[TimeIsTight]

I am not sure why you believe they would be interested in the slopped-together, rip & read approach that 101.9 offered.

Obviously, the execution was a mess. But I am sure the various lifestyle, and entertainment topics are of interest to younger women, and the proof is on the magazine rack, in big bookstores and in beauty pallors. There is all kinds of marketing data available to prove that.

Also, I am confused as to why you think 101.9's content would have appealed to young women. You must define "young" as over the age of 40? If their target was "young" women, they missed the mark by a mile!!!

I winced at stories I heard about Snooki on Jersey Shore, or about Lindsay Lohan, or Justin Beiber, but I am sure those stories had a lot of appeal for girls and women under 40. Women under 40 also cook, shop, care about fashion, are parents etc. Why wouldn't they care about those features? And I am sure they also care about the weather, traffic and transit info, and hopefully about some general news.

Here's an idea, how about putting someone who actually belongs to the desired demo group in charge of programming?

Wasn't that why Liz Aiello was there? She had been the news director of Howard 100 news, put together at Sirius Satellite Radio by Howard Stern. She then moved over to run the Martha Stewart Living channels at Sirius. I don't know how old she is, but that is certainly a background in "celebrity gossip" and "female lifestyle" radio that few people have, and I am sure that is why she was at Merlin.

When you're developing something brand new you can't find people with exactly the right experience. It's not like if they were starting a Country format and they just went out and looked for successful Country program directors in other major markets and just lured one away. So, it appears they got the best background for the job, and it just didn't work. That is not the first time a radio format experiment failed quickly and it won't be the last. And that's good, because people should always try to innovate and do things better.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Those features besides Snooki, yes. Women listen to ZANY morning shows with that type of fare all the time. Here's the difference... those shows are limited to a particular time, and more importantly, don't take the subject matter seriously and try and pass it off as serious news. All the morning hosts I've ever heard are poking fun at the Kardashians and Snooki, not seriously reporting on it.

Howard 100 news works because it's in the context of the Howard Stern channels and is actually funny. Hearing a serious news anchor do an update about Eric the Midget is funny. Hearing Shuli do a goof report on Richard Christy's back sweat is funny. But those are quick updates once an hour during shows. And they're not meant to be taken seriously or have an entire format where millions of dollars are on the line built around them. They're spice on the channels.

Where FM News missed the mark is that it was neither funny, or serious. It fell in that middle void, trying to pass off non-news as serious news with awkward banter between the air staff. Hiring Liz Aiello, who has NO experience with a 24/7 all news format to run it was a huge mistake. At Sirius, she never had to deal with ratings and most importantly, billing. Or PPMs for that matter. Walt Sabo and should have known better. Randy Michaels too.

In fact, quoting their own website, it seems they broke both cardinal rules with 101.9:

RULES FOR MERLIN MAGICIANS

1. Rule #1- Use your best judgment.

2. Rule #2 -See rule number one.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Hey guys, please take another gander at the title of this thread...