Goodbye AM & FM & HD

[gr8oldies]

I stream talk stations from all over the country and I have never encountered geofencing. The only time a station's real-time content is not avalialbe is when there's a sporting event, but I suspect the event is blocked from streaming even in the local area.

I second that I've not seen talk stations geo-fence syndicated programs.

 

[Kelly A]

I second that I've not seen talk stations geo-fence syndicated programs.

Live syndicated programs being listened-to out of market?

 

[TheBigA]

His answer was that eventually Nielsen is supposed to provide a different encoder for specifically a live stream. Ran into the same here in D.C. with TV.

So what you're saying is stations are streaming but not encoding, thus not getting credit. This may be another explanation for the data in the Edison Research Study linked earlier. But like others here, I frequently stream out of market stations for both local and syndicated programming. I don't use a secondary platform such as TuneIn. I use the link provided on the station website. No issues with streaming the content.

 

[101.9 La Kalle]

That's not only an ageist and racist remark but also a complete generalization without basis.

I don't think they meant it that way.

 

[Kelly A]

So what you're saying is stations are streaming but not encoding, thus not getting credit.

Correct.

This may be another explanation for the data in the Edison Research Study linked earlier. But like others here, I frequently stream out of market stations for both local and syndicated programming. I don't use a secondary platform such as TuneIn. I use the link provided on the station website. No issues with streaming the content.

A handful of stations have agreements with syndicatior's which allow streaming, but it's supposed to be geo-fenced. Stations encoding on their web stream essentially get away with it until another station outside the streamed station market carrying the same syndicated show complains. And again; the issue is live programs, not delayed.

 

[gr8oldies]

Live syndicated programs being listened-to out of market?

During Rush's day, I could hear him from Tennessee on KFI, WHIO Dayton and several other places. Spots were subbed but it was still that station's feed....they didn't go silent or add local WOKI's feed.

 

[Kelly A]

During Rush's day, I could hear him from Tennessee on KFI, WHIO Dayton and several other places. Spots were subbed but it was still that station's feed....they didn't go silent or add local WOKI's feed.

There are many more right-wing syndicated hosts than just Limbaugh carried on many more stations these days.

 

[fybush]

Every cluster I've ever visited in a PPM market has had a separate set of encoders for the stream.

And I've yet to find any station that geofences any syndicated programming other than sports play-by-play.

I'd be very interested in hearing any actual examples of one that does.

 

[wadio]

Live syndicated programs being listened-to out of market?

Absolutely. All the time.

 

[wadio]

Actually, there is factual basis for the statement. According to MRI-Simmons, the audience for News Talk format is:

60% male, 86% white, and the average age is 59, with 60% of the audience at 55+ and 38% at 65+

What we see is that this audience seeks out this format even when it's on AM and there are similar stations on FM.

There is nothing racist or ageist about the truth, and the courts say that radio stations can sell formats based on audience demographics.

I'd like to dig deeper into this.

It's 2022, and advertisers can use all kinds of metrics to target their ads.

If you shop online for a product, or walk down the street with a phone in your pocket, they know a lot about you. Chances are they know where you live and about your neighborhood. They know about your past purchases, your product preferences, your usual shopping areas and your spending habits. They often know much more, such as your income and credit score.

Those are all useful indicators of who might buy for your product or service. But of what possible value is it for them to know your age or the color of your skin?

When I go into a store for groceries, clothing, electronics, power tools or whatever I encounter other customers of all different ages, sexes, skin color, and speaking different languages. If I owned a business, wouldn't I want to attract them all?

Teslas have become very popular in my area -- I can't leave the house without seeing two or three of them, and the drivers are often old white men. Should Tesla avoid targeting 55+ while males? Wouldn't it be better to ignore age, race and gender as a criteria and focus on other factors that might actually result in a sale? In other words, age, race and gender might be very broad predictors of a person's buying habits, but today there are better ways to narrow it down. No need for generalizations.

Broadcast radio's inability to micro-target listeners might be its ultimate downfall, but streaming to individual IP addresses could be its salvation.

So when I read about "angry white males" in these threads I think it has more to do with what's going on in the posters' heads than what's happening in the real world.

 

[TheBigA]

Should Tesla avoid targeting 55+ while males? Wouldn't it be better to ignore age, race and gender as a criteria and focus on other factors that might actually result in a sale?

Interesting subject. I have yet to hear a Tesla ad on the radio. I haven't seen one on TV either. News/talk radio hosts tend to view electric cars as a bad thing. So I'm not sure that's a good example. But the profiling you're talking about comes from the advertisers, not radio. Radio just wants to make some money.

So when I read about "angry white males" in these threads I think it has more to do with what's going on in the posters' heads than what's happening in the real world.

I was listening to Brian Kilmeade this morning. He was pretty angry about China and covid restrictions. He said he wants to prosecute Dr. Fauci. As I said before, the content of the news/talk programming is what leads to the generalization.

 

[Kelly A]

I'd like to dig deeper into this.

It's 2022, and advertisers can use all kinds of metrics to target their ads.

If you shop online for a product, or walk down the street with a phone in your pocket, they know a lot about you. Chances are they know where you live and about your neighborhood. They know about your past purchases, your product preferences, your usual shopping areas and your spending habits. They often know much more, such as your income and credit score.

Those are all useful indicators of who might buy for your product or service. But of what possible value is it for them to know your age or the color of your skin?

That's a common metric for political polling and advertiser's actually. Haven't you heard the terms: 'White, middle class, college educated'? or 'White, non-college educated', or 'White, retired, seniors' Then there's: 'Person's of color, college educated, and 'Person's of color, non-college educated and Hispanic, of the same.
Age is typically broken out into groups similar to what media uses and combined with one of the categories here.

When I go into a store for groceries, clothing, electronics, power tools or whatever I encounter other customers of all different ages, sexes, skin color, and speaking different languages. If I owned a business, wouldn't I want to attract them all?

Depends as to whether you're selling from a mom-and-pop environment, or a larger company attempting to reach and develop potentially years of brand loyalty.

Teslas have become very popular in my area -- I can't leave the house without seeing two or three of them, and the drivers are often old white men. Should Tesla avoid targeting 55+ while males?

Why should they advertise, when sales (and Tesla stock) is already pretty brisk? Tesla has always been what's known as a marquis brand. Anyone who isn't Rip Van Winkle already knows who Tesla is and what they make.

Wouldn't it be better to ignore age, race and gender as a criteria and focus on other factors that might actually result in a sale? In other words, age, race and gender might be very broad predictors of a person's buying habits, but today there are better ways to narrow it down. No need for generalizations.

In theory, what you say makes sense. But, as BigA pointed out, this isn't something that radio or TV controls, but the way advertisers want to play the game. You build long term customers by catching them younger, not in their waning years.

Broadcast radio's inability to micro-target listeners might be its ultimate downfall, but streaming to individual IP addresses could be its salvation.

The term downfall isn't fair because radio is 'broad-casting', not targeted. Consumers/Listeners want both for the foreseeable future.

So when I read about "angry white males" in these threads I think it has more to do with what's going on in the posters' heads than what's happening in the real world.

How do you get an audience to follow a talk radio host? Say things that resonate with the audience. The unfortunate thing in these politically-charged days, is that usually involves whatever nutty conspiracy theory is making rounds on Facebook, 4Chan, 8Chan, Truth Social, or Twitter. "Conservative" talk show hosts play to the fears and verbally confirm what (usually senior white males) are already thinking. As PT Barnum once said: “The greatest humbug of all is the man who believes—or pretends to believe—that everything and everybody are humbugs.”

 

[Hole in your radio]

That depends. If you're talking about a 65+ year old white male, they're willing to put up with quite a bit of noise and distortion when listening to talk radio on AM.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

 

[Marcos_C]

Local AM stations carrying right-wing talk have market exclusivity to protect the affiliate's, so wide-area, non-geofenced, live streaming these particular talk hosts isn't typically available.

This is not a station policy; it is the policy of the show's syndicator. Basically, they allow streaming only in the station's market or the county of license of a small unranked market station.

That is not true. A lot of stations make their live streams of shows hosted by Beck, Travis and Sexton, Bongino, Hannity, etc. available nationwide.

 

[davideduardo]

Much depends on whether a particular station is also Nielsen-encoding it's stream. As has already been mentioned; if a station is encoding it's stream same as OTA, then they'll get market credit outside the intended market. Nielsen though, generally discourages encoding a non-geofenced web stream because it potentially encroaches on markets other than the intended market.

I have never heard that. In fact, Nielsen encourages encoding of everything as that increases PUR (Persons Using Radio) which is a major concern today in the industry.

Since out-of-area stations seldom show up in sufficient numbers in distant markets to make any difference, that means that the occasional listening to a distant station will usually not even qualify the station for a 0.1 share.

For example; someone streaming a syndicated host from WABC's encoded stream while they're visiting say, Los Angeles, where the same syndicated host plays on a local station, is being unfair to the LA station and it's advertisers.

But that listening to WABC by a New York City resident in a far away location will be attributed only in the New York Metro Survey Area tabulations because that meter is specific to one local market no matter where it may be. A metered person's listening when out of market is not even identified as such. The meter just registers what is heard and, if the station is encoded, feeds that data back to Nielsen.

 

[wadio]

I was listening to Brian Kilmeade this morning. He was pretty angry about China and covid restrictions. He said he wants to prosecute Dr. Fauci. As I said before, the content of the news/talk programming is what leads to the generalization.

I agree about Kilmead. He's not a talker I listen to. So why generalize based on his show? Talk hosts are individuals. Listeners are individuals. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[davideduardo]

That is not true. A lot of stations make their live streams of shows hosted by Beck, Travis and Sexton, Bongino, Hannity, etc. available nationwide.

As I said, that decision is made by the syndicator, not the station. The post was responding to seemed to say that the decision was station-based, which is not the case.

 

[davideduardo]

Are you sure about that?

I checked with my contact and that is not an official policy. In fact, encoding of "everything possible" is encouraged.

 

[TheBigA]

I agree about Kilmead. He's not a talker I listen to. So why generalize based on his show?

It's not just one. I can give you a list of angry talk show hosts. Bongino may be the angriest. But Shapiro rants a lot too.

 

[wadio]

As I said, that decision is made by the syndicator, not the station. The post was responding to seemed to say that the decision was station-based, which is not the case.

Either way, all the shows you mentioned are available nationwide on a huge number of stations. I have yet to find a show that's blocked anywhere, so it seems to be a moot point.