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Goodbye Progressive Talk msg at wavz.com
- Thread starter raccoonradio
- Start date
I saw this on Joe Amarante's blog at newhavenregister.com
THEY DID NOT PROMOTE THIS STATION AND FOUND OUT THAT THEY DO NOT EVEN KEEP STATS ON THE LISTENERSHIP. I RECALL IN THE EARLY DAYS THAT THEY DID AND IT INCREASED 1300%. I AM NOT SURE WHEN THEY STOPPED FOLLOWING THIS BUT THEY DID. HOW CAN THEY SILENCE THE VOICE OF THE MAJORITY (IN CT)OR AT THE VERY LEAST HALF OF THE POPULATION. DONT WE, THE PUBLIC,
OWN THE AIRWAVES? MY EMAIL IS [email protected].
THEY DID NOT PROMOTE THIS STATION AND FOUND OUT THAT THEY DO NOT EVEN KEEP STATS ON THE LISTENERSHIP. I RECALL IN THE EARLY DAYS THAT THEY DID AND IT INCREASED 1300%. I AM NOT SURE WHEN THEY STOPPED FOLLOWING THIS BUT THEY DID. HOW CAN THEY SILENCE THE VOICE OF THE MAJORITY (IN CT)OR AT THE VERY LEAST HALF OF THE POPULATION. DONT WE, THE PUBLIC,
OWN THE AIRWAVES? MY EMAIL IS [email protected].
P
PaulBWalkerJr
Guest
Weird email address, but anyways...
The listenership may have increased, but was the advertiser support there? THATS THE MOSTIMPORTANT QUESTION!!
The listenership may have increased, but was the advertiser support there? THATS THE MOSTIMPORTANT QUESTION!!
NH Register article
http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17818468&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=590581&rfi=6
(It says that station ran shows from AAR yet 2 of the 3 they mentioned were actually Jones; oh well...)
WELI/WAVZ PD quoted as saying that the ESPN brand is well known and "just word of the change to ESPN sent station advertisers lining up to buy spots". Sports indeed an easier sell.
One listener said she wanted to hear Franken's last show Feb 14 but now cannot. (But maybe WWRL
can be picked up...? btw WWKB 1520 in Buffalo can be heard mid to late afternoons this time of yr in
far-flung locations like Beverly MA where I am; that did sound like Schulz as I dial scanned)
>>Shanley wished WAVZ had been more local.
Local def. is important...and the prog talkers in Western MA, and Brattleboro VT do have local shows...
http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17818468&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=590581&rfi=6
(It says that station ran shows from AAR yet 2 of the 3 they mentioned were actually Jones; oh well...)
WELI/WAVZ PD quoted as saying that the ESPN brand is well known and "just word of the change to ESPN sent station advertisers lining up to buy spots". Sports indeed an easier sell.
One listener said she wanted to hear Franken's last show Feb 14 but now cannot. (But maybe WWRL
can be picked up...? btw WWKB 1520 in Buffalo can be heard mid to late afternoons this time of yr in
far-flung locations like Beverly MA where I am; that did sound like Schulz as I dial scanned)
>>Shanley wished WAVZ had been more local.
Local def. is important...and the prog talkers in Western MA, and Brattleboro VT do have local shows...
New Haven Register's Joe Amarante, in his latest blog entry, is extremely critical on how Clear Channel runs its local stations. He responds to a complaint letter about WAVZ's switch from progressive talk and WELI's news department being outsourced to Syracuse. Amarante says, "Clear Channel is a ruthless, money-first corporation that doesn't care about the public interest." He also says, "CC airing progressive talk? Talk about a doomed partnership (which may have been the political strategy all along)."
Joe's blog entry at
http://javajoesjournaljive.blogspot.com/2007/02/more-on-wavz-and-clear-channel.html
Joe's blog entry at
http://javajoesjournaljive.blogspot.com/2007/02/more-on-wavz-and-clear-channel.html
To all who ask if the advertiser support was "there" (wherever there is) I'd suggest a class in good salesmanship. Good salesmen can sell anything, anywhere at anytime. Lousy book? they sell "selected audience." Great book, they sell "ears." The real problem is there are less and less good salespeople and more and more incompetent ones.
Our job as broadcasters is to create and make available compelling product. It is up to the salespeople to make the station money.
Our job as broadcasters is to create and make available compelling product. It is up to the salespeople to make the station money.
G
GreatCalloftheNE
Guest
sdkalb said:
This post is absolutely on the money!!! All this crap about not being able to sell a format due to ratings or an out-of-favor format like Oldies is just that; CRAP!!! The salespeople in radio today are order-takers not salespeople. Get out of the office and go knock on some doors....do some cold-calling....have some spec commercials made to play for a prospective client and you might find you can make some money instead of relying on some ad agency to phone in an order.
Find some hungry salespeople!!!
I don't think it even gets down to good vs. lousy salespeople. On a local level, it is possible to put some boots on the ground and sell lib talk, oldies, ethnic and the whole nine yards. However, the commitment to these formats on a national level is less than impressive. The Clear Channels of the world see that national buys who often pay top dollar don't flock to many of these formats because they don't fit the profile of their target audience. They sometimes don't even get any numbers, which can take localization, time and money. When the budgets are even being slashed by the big chains for their dominant station A, then how much local commitment will station B get?
Maybe liberal talk would get some extra time to establish itself in Brattleboro, VT, but larger market owners don't give questionable returns much of a lifespan. With that kind of timeline, some dedicated local salespeople don't get much of a chance to warm mom and pop stores up to the new flavor of the month to make enough of a difference. By the way, cracking the whip doesn't improve subpar sales any more than it does any other form of productivity.
It is a shame, from a listener and radio geek standpoint, that real alternatives so often get shot down before getting a chance. The simple fact is that a big AM (station A), often the only AM left in town with over a 3 share, is usually making the money targeting conservative, middle-aged males who spend more money than some other potential audiences. That type of conservative talk can be sold in combo with a recognizable name like ESPN on an also-ran sister (station B). If both liberal talk and sports get a 1 share max, then sports would be the easier sell when you're already getting the bigger bucks selling Rush.
Maybe the day will come when more companies stop treating formats as flavor of the month as long as their primary stations make money. It takes commitment and consistency in sales and programming.
Maybe liberal talk would get some extra time to establish itself in Brattleboro, VT, but larger market owners don't give questionable returns much of a lifespan. With that kind of timeline, some dedicated local salespeople don't get much of a chance to warm mom and pop stores up to the new flavor of the month to make enough of a difference. By the way, cracking the whip doesn't improve subpar sales any more than it does any other form of productivity.
It is a shame, from a listener and radio geek standpoint, that real alternatives so often get shot down before getting a chance. The simple fact is that a big AM (station A), often the only AM left in town with over a 3 share, is usually making the money targeting conservative, middle-aged males who spend more money than some other potential audiences. That type of conservative talk can be sold in combo with a recognizable name like ESPN on an also-ran sister (station B). If both liberal talk and sports get a 1 share max, then sports would be the easier sell when you're already getting the bigger bucks selling Rush.
Maybe the day will come when more companies stop treating formats as flavor of the month as long as their primary stations make money. It takes commitment and consistency in sales and programming.
With all respect to people of Polish heritage (of which I am part one), CC would play 24 hours of Polish Wedding Marches if they thought they could make a $. They would also give that format virtually no time to establish itself before they swapped it to Russian Wedding Marches (also part Russian.) To them radio stations are just like 7-11s. How little do we have to pay the folks who work there aand can we program the station using the least number of talented people in order to draw another from the station.
As for salespeople, we have created a generation of order takers who are run by bean counter sales managers and GMs. Good salespeople know their clients. I am reminded of my cousin who used to sell fabric. He never owned a computer. He knew the name the family history of every client he had. At the larger department stores he knew the buyer, when to call him or her and his job was to anticipate his client's needs...not just fill them. He must have been pretty good 'cause he managed to retire on his 65th birthday with two houses, money in the bank and also put two kids through college and paid for at least one superb wedding.
He knew his clients and his products like the back of his hand. How many salespeople know what is on the air of their station right now.
When broadcasters ran radio evereyone made money, we all liked the gig and the industry was thriving. Now we are owned by who-the-hell-knows...the industry is lagging and with the exception of the major markets what little talent remains is looking for the next career.
As for salespeople, we have created a generation of order takers who are run by bean counter sales managers and GMs. Good salespeople know their clients. I am reminded of my cousin who used to sell fabric. He never owned a computer. He knew the name the family history of every client he had. At the larger department stores he knew the buyer, when to call him or her and his job was to anticipate his client's needs...not just fill them. He must have been pretty good 'cause he managed to retire on his 65th birthday with two houses, money in the bank and also put two kids through college and paid for at least one superb wedding.
He knew his clients and his products like the back of his hand. How many salespeople know what is on the air of their station right now.
When broadcasters ran radio evereyone made money, we all liked the gig and the industry was thriving. Now we are owned by who-the-hell-knows...the industry is lagging and with the exception of the major markets what little talent remains is looking for the next career.
The story of a successful salesperson is one where he/she gets the time to establish a relationship with the client. "Take the money and run" doesn't work in the longer run if the buyer doesn't realize service or value in your product. Sales turnover doesn't help. I know one salesman who cared a great deal about the industry and was willing to give a commitment. He worked for one local owner who had no big picture of what his station was, resulting in an inconsistent product and no documented listenership. If the staff doesn't know what their station is, how will listeners and advertisers warm up to it? On the other end of the spectrum, this salesman also worked for one of these corporate radio malls with short-terms quotas and ultimatums that few people could build on with a quick turnaround. He was canned. Next!
Back to WAVZ... This legendary station has been through so much since Top 40 left in 1979. They gave standards the boot several times only to go from the frying pan into the fire with things like Z-Rock and Foz Sports. Will this sports switch help? We'll see... and probably very quickly.
Back to WAVZ... This legendary station has been through so much since Top 40 left in 1979. They gave standards the boot several times only to go from the frying pan into the fire with things like Z-Rock and Foz Sports. Will this sports switch help? We'll see... and probably very quickly.
Oldbones said:
Damn straight man. JRC, the company that owns The New Haven Register also owns The New Britain Herald, which is the semi-local paper where I live and the paper has seriously gone to hell over the years. Screw up after screw up after screw up. Especially on the Comics Page. Further more the Cable Lineup on the TV Listings page is way out of date for COX Cable. (Both systems).
K
KML0224
Guest
Agreed. They still don't even carry listings for WCTX-TV either. I simply can not understand that one.
Monica from Naugatuck has started a group and a petition drive for progressive talk.
New group at groups.yahoo.com ...
saveprogressivetalkct
Petition drive at ...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/928961862
New group at groups.yahoo.com ...
saveprogressivetalkct
Petition drive at ...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/928961862
Whenever I hear Clear Channel attacked as heartless or just in it for the money, I have to say, "What do you think they operate a business for?" Yes, radio is a business - not only a soapbox for people of differing points of view to meet and debate the issues (local and non-local) of the day. The latter point sounds noble (I too would like to think politics is just like Mr. Smith Goes to Washington), but walk around the shopping mall or stop in at a McDonalds and ask people if they care more about their local school's budget, the mathematics program, or Anna Nicole's death. Clear Channel should b egiven credit for staying with Air America on its stations as long as it did - there were several ratings periods where progressive talk ratings were low but he format wasn't dropped. You can't say the same thing about the formats of dance music, country music, or progressive rock. Clear Channel has brought a wider array of formats (admittedly similar between cities and pre-tested and pre=packaged for national distribution without a care about local differentiation), but we still have more formats in many cities thanks to CC than existed before CC's domination. Radio is a business, and if there is money to be made in filling a niche, radio will jump on the bandwagon. If the audience isn't there, you can't keep playing to an empty house.
>there were several ratings periods where progressive talk ratings were low but he format wasn't dropped.
Part of the argument here is that Clear Channel did absolutely nothing to promote the progressive talk format on WAVZ. No newspaper ads, billboards, bumper stickers, etc. Now the only talk left is the string of conservative shows on CC's WELI. Posters to other boards have reported the same for CC progressive talkers in Boston and elsewhere, and Ed Schultz has blasted CC for mismanaging its liberal talk stations. Is there an agenda here from a conservative company, as the New Haven Register's Joe Amarante indicated on his blog? Sean Hannity loves to say lib talk is failing, but Ed Schultz claims he is beating Hannity in several cities.
BTW - There have been ads for ESPN Radio 1300 at the top of the sports section of the New Haven Register every day since the format change.
Part of the argument here is that Clear Channel did absolutely nothing to promote the progressive talk format on WAVZ. No newspaper ads, billboards, bumper stickers, etc. Now the only talk left is the string of conservative shows on CC's WELI. Posters to other boards have reported the same for CC progressive talkers in Boston and elsewhere, and Ed Schultz has blasted CC for mismanaging its liberal talk stations. Is there an agenda here from a conservative company, as the New Haven Register's Joe Amarante indicated on his blog? Sean Hannity loves to say lib talk is failing, but Ed Schultz claims he is beating Hannity in several cities.
BTW - There have been ads for ESPN Radio 1300 at the top of the sports section of the New Haven Register every day since the format change.
Bill1820 said:
If much of corporate America was unwilling to advertise on Air America, as has been reported, what was Clear Channel supposed to do? Sooner or later, it had to throw up its hands and replace liberal talk with Latino music or sports talk, formats that don't have advertisers shunning them for fear of appearing "unpatriotic" or "traitorous" to conservative listeners.
>If much of corporate America was unwilling to advertise on Air America, as has been reported
We don't know if CC salespeople in Boston and New Haven bothered to show flyers for the progressive talk stations. We do know there was no promotion in New Haven. Therefore, I'm sure there was no effort to sell advertising. Proof that there is interest in talk that's different than the conservative rants on WELI - Rosa DeLauro has been reelected to Congress each time since the early 90s. New Haven hasn't had a Republican mayor since the early 50s. Last year state Dems voted against Senator Lieberman in a primary because they did not like his stand on the war, and CT voters threw out two Republican congressional incumbents. Progressive talk (or at least a schedule of left-middle-right talk) could work here if handled by dedicated broadcasters who aren't interested in promoting a narrow political agenda.
We don't know if CC salespeople in Boston and New Haven bothered to show flyers for the progressive talk stations. We do know there was no promotion in New Haven. Therefore, I'm sure there was no effort to sell advertising. Proof that there is interest in talk that's different than the conservative rants on WELI - Rosa DeLauro has been reelected to Congress each time since the early 90s. New Haven hasn't had a Republican mayor since the early 50s. Last year state Dems voted against Senator Lieberman in a primary because they did not like his stand on the war, and CT voters threw out two Republican congressional incumbents. Progressive talk (or at least a schedule of left-middle-right talk) could work here if handled by dedicated broadcasters who aren't interested in promoting a narrow political agenda.
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