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Great MDs

J

John Waywoods

I firmly believe that the dance format is the most difficult format to program, musically. Since, at its core, it is a "Hit" format, you cannot get away with playing 5 plus year old songs and the hot songs turnover much quicker than that of a t40. Not to mention the diversity in the audience and the number of sub-genres that is unlike any other. I don't know of any other MD who has gained as much notoriety as Frankie Blue, for his work on KTU and HTZ.

Any others?
 
what do you mean you cant play songs that are 5 years old? A dance station should be marketed towards a 18-34 market. Which means the golds should include the hits from the early 90's I for one play a lot freestyle because my market loves it.

I think you need to add Glenn Kalina who programmed WIOQ in Philly.
 
Frankie Blue was a great MD at Z100 but then when he got to KTU he surrounded himself with some incredable people that may go by the waist side because they were so behind the scene. Andy Shane was the MD for the first few amazing years at KTU. After he left Geronimo came in and was pretty much a puppet for Frankie and the soon to take over Jeff Z. Jeff Z then became the MD and was soon to take control when Frankie went ..lets say over the edge. Z was taught by the best but had his hands tied by the market controllers. He was there for 11 years and I feel kept KTU running till Poleman just wanted to get KTU out of the way of Z100 and forced Jeff to take the station older till Jeff just couldn't watch something he helped to build go in the wrong direction. Under Blue and Jeff Z that station found some of the biggest "Indie Label" smashes ever.
Sucks to be living in NY now and have to hear the crappy recurrent radio station KTU has become.
 
Even back in 2002 when I was last in NYC, I kept my radio locked on KTU and it was so far from a currents-based format that it was saddening. If the higher-ups would leave well enough alone, it could still be a great station. If that's true, Dude, that they changed it to keep the station from hurting Z, all I can say is... what morons! You don't harm one of your stations to make the other marginally (at best) more profitable. And people wonder why Clear's selling their smaller-market stations. It's the (dumbass) management, stupid!
 
I think they changed it because the quality of great dance hits back then by amber, d.cox, reina, venga boys, and all the rest went down the toilet in the years that followed, replaced by no vocals trance which is totally CHR unfriendly and pop diva records that are total crap compared to the late 90S/early 00'S tracks that crossed over...
if you thought a current KTU could play the current crap of the past few years and still have an audience, well, honey, you need a doctor...
 
KTU changed because of its demographics. Not because of the music. Current dance music fits a 18-34 not a 25-54 which KTU is. There is a lot of great dance music out there now. Some of it has been the best stuff in years. Radio stations can get ratings with this format if its tried, but the problem is the big companies wont do it because it will effect their top 40 stations. Dance is coming back
 
Wouldn't there be at least ONE station of some stature in America(as in watts) doing this right now then;
it's a handful of low power local or school related stations broadcasting current dance; there hasn't even been ONE real cross over hit (in mediaBase terms) for this entire year, Bob Sinclar tried but it didn't happen...where's the audience; WHO'S the audience?
 
The target audience is anyone who likes commercial dance music. Don't overthink it. Radio is all about making money and serving the community. Mostly the money part. If enough of the community is educated about commercial dance music then a station may pop up. But because it's mostly about the bottom line, you'll only see non-com, smaller or HD stations serving up the format.
 
The problem is alot dance records don't make it in the hands of a PD at Top 40. Ive heard that from several Top 40 PDs. People cant play what they don't have. And with the format I totally disagree with you. Yes people of every age listen to dance music but the currents cater to a younger demo. The research from Disney is pointing towards that. Go to one of the radio shows and see what the demos are. The majority is not over 34. Even the pop remixes are catering towards a younger audience. Who's Justin Timberlake and Hilary Duff's core audience?
 
First things first, great MD's that understand/understood dance music, there's two that I believe were the best in NY at identifying the hits. Andy Shane (Z100 & WKTU) and Paul "Cubby" Bryant (Z100). Both have amazing ears. Both could not just identify a dance hit but they could then make it happen.

There are a lot of other MD's in other markets that kick butt when it comes to picking the hits but these are two that I've had the pleasure of knowing for a long time and they are in my market so I stuck with the NY guys as they crossed records over.

Next, KTU switched as a direct result of a company owning a lot of stations in a market and needing to protect it's investments. KTU was switched to strengthen Z100's demos and to give back some of the older demos to Lite-FM. It's called cluster programming and if you don't know what it is then try to read up on it, it's unfortunately the here and now as well as the future.

As for programming a dance station today, you cannont ignore anyone under 50, especially women as they have a long history in most major markets with the music.

If dance music is going to make a comeback on the FM dial it needs to happen in two places. The first is the street (trendsetters, in NY the latino market). The second is with women. Women have always loved rhythmic dance music and they are still big supporters today. Ex: For the second year in a row in at Madison Square Garden a freestyle show sold out. Older women in this market still love that music and it would have to be a part of any station coming in.

How to get it to happen in the streets and with women is a totally different thread. :)

A properly run and dayparted FM could kick butt in NY. Playing Ferry Corsten in all dayparts isn't going to cut it. But playing Ferry Corsten after 6pm will. You almost have to program the station as if it were two. The day shift filled with the Pop remixes and familiar dance hits and then the night where you can add a slightly more of the clubbish vibe to it. I did this 20 years ago, on a small scale (10 watt station), and it worked with major results (weekly Cume of 250,000).

That said, I still don't believe that any current based dance station is coming into NY anytime soon. The folks at Corporate still don't get it. They don't understand the potential, they've never heard of the genre's stars, and you can't point to anything that indicates that we've had success on a sustained level. I mean, the biggest thing going in Dance right now is Tiesto and his sold out across america tour. Yet, he's only sold 60,000 albums. That my friends points to B-I-G problems for dance music.

jp
 
i beg to differ , John, the folks at corporate DO get it, at least what they need to get, which is that films and tv shows ignore these currents, as do major and minor CHR stations; MTV and all other youth market programming avoid it like the plague, even the BMG Record Club(Get 100 CDS for a penny!)ignores the category;
as to not knowing the stars, well, I guess if the majority of people don't know them,then they may be artists but they're certainly not stars(having to explain who someone is sort of negates the 'star' concept)
dance dug this grave for itself many years ago, and has done nothing to reverse the self inflicted damage beyond wishin and hopin(rosary beads, anyone?)
luv ya, john....
 
Personally I think Dance music is alive and kickin and has never really dug its greave as some claim. The beauty of Dance music is that it can have lyrics or be instrumental. It can be at a tempo of 130 BPM or a tempo of 150. It can be very melodic or very beat oriented. It can recreate live instrument sounds, or create new futuristic ones. It's not as restricted as other genres, and anyone that can't apprwciate it's their loss.
American culture just doesn't seem to be as big on Dance music as other parts of the world. That's been the case since at least the mid 80s.
 
I'll conceed that your partially right Jimi. But when an artist like DHT or Cascada comes along, sells 500,000/ 1 Million downloads (respectively) and then has to fight to get a follow-up on any CHR station that has had success with the first record, then they don't get it and we lose. If it was an R'N'B, Hip Hop, Rock or Pop artist, not only would there have been a shot given to the follow up, but they would have been shouting down from the hills that they all have the exclusive follow up.

You know my position on all of this. The dance industry needs to give itself a kick in the butt and get into the "commercial" state of mind if they want Pop radio play. Some artists give it a go (pretty much any one on our label, Robbins and Lucas Prata), others are too worried about where they or their producers are going to place in the DJ Top 100 poll.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. But I'd still like to see CHR's in "dance friendly" markets lookout for our dance hits. They provide a sensible balance between the various other genres that are played at radio. New York is, and has always been, a rhythmic town. Dance music works here and always has. Z100 has been very supportive of the music but we could use a KTU back again.

jp
 
A couple of things John.
What you said about Dance music providing a balance for CHR radio is very true. Helps a station get its energy going.

Second of all, I think there are plenty, in fact too many, commercial Dance acts. Anyone who thinks that all you've got are just acts targetting DJ Culture (which is my personal preference) is wrong.
There's a million acts like DHT and Cascada. All you gotta do is look at the Belgian Pop charts on any given week, or the Handz Up section of German DJ record stores. There's also always mainstream Dance acts hitting the UK Pop charts or Sweden. Right now a super cheesy act by the name of Befour is Top 5 in Austria with a record that was all the rage in Poland and Russia over the summer...which means that you can find more commercial Dance acts via some of the Dance stations from eastern Europe. Romania is churning out quite a few of them. I also hear plenty of Mainstream Dance on stations like M2O out of Italy, the national Dance stations in Spain, or some of the Dance leaning stations in Greece. Even some of the stations from Australia and Brazil make it look easy to find these accessible records.

It's out there in abundance really. Your label has pretty much been the only one that's been able to properly tap into that resource, market it effectively, and turn out hits. Oftentimes it's b/c of your label's success that these records then become even bigger hits back in Europe, as was the case with both Cascada and DHT.
I like that while Robbins looks for commercial Dance from all sectors. Oftentimes in Europe commercial Dance labels all either focus on a certain type of House, or Euro, or Dance/Pop, but your label is always on the lookout for anything from Trance, to hard stuff, to a retro sounding Dance record.

I think the problem is simply that there aren't a lot of Dance labels like Robbins, not that the music isn't there.
 
Here, let me give you a great example. I just heard a song called "You Are The One" by a Dance act called Millenium played on Flaix FM out of Spain. Turns out the song is Top 10 at the station:
http://www.flaixfm.net/pagina.asp?tipus=pagina&ident=2285

And I was able to easily link you to a good audio link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bk1xIR-Bgco

What seperates this from your typical American production is that it doesn't try too hard to imitate those circuit anthem remixes. Hex Hector remixes were great back in the late 90s, but can we move past them please? This record on the other hand combines elements of Euro, lyrics similar to oldschool Freestyle, and there's some crossover House elements as well. You've also got a Club mix, which is a bit faster sounding (think Cascada), and makes an effort not sound like the other version:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mGsY9bUJ4LI
 
the music's been out there all along, but not THEmusic that connects to the US audience's needs and sensibilities,which is why I've felt a need to shake up the primary premise of presentation and delivery,as the current model, as far as America is concerned,is not working at all, and the few dance hits that leak through(as I stated ages ago) come to be regarded as novelties and 'sore thumb' records, one shots, thus the avoidance of following up on the next record, which, if media regard the product as a novelty(hair, teeth,and a bouncy beat)they won't regard the artist as an ARTIST.
..so, it's great for Rumania and Transylvania but it ain't happening here, not in it's current incarnation, not today, not next year...
 
Well as far as records that shake it up, that too happens quite often, like all of the Scooter releases which are whacky by nature, but very commercial. They're currently Top 10 in Germany with "Question What Is The Question"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dUklTESKmis

Or you've got The Boris Dlugosch remix of The Migrants of "I Thought That". I think it's Borsis's best work to date:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sni52A9yzbE

On the flip side, you've got acts showing a lot of maturity that should be marketed to both the younger and older crowds. A perfect example is the latest release from Infernal titled "10 Miles":
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=infernal+ten+miles

There, a midtempo Dance record that is rich with sound and texture, has good lyrics and vocal performance too.

XM Radio's The Beat has the right idea by playing a variety of Dance styles. They're playing one of these "mature" Dance records right now by the act Plumb titled "In My Arms"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EIHJhGw824g
http://youtube.com/watch?v=67O7xCnpZhk&mode=related&search=

The thing is that a good MD needs to find the BEST Dance records to play on the radio. Some programmers get wayyyy to caught up with playing only the flavor of the moment sound, or only regional sounding records. While it's good to always stay on top of whats coming out of your market, a commercial station should offer the best music out there period, regardless of where it comes from. If the best Dance tunes are made in Timbuktu don't be afraid to play them. Stop trying to imitate certain Hip Hop stations. You don't see Rock stations or CHR stations in Des Moines focusing on local acts, why should you?
 
BTW, a couple of my personal favorite records right now are by Nic Chagall (of Cosmic Gate). Check out both "Back To San Fran", and "What You Need". This guy is definitely a huge part of DJ culture right now so I don't really care whether radio plays these great tracks or not :)

http://www.myspace.com/nicchagall
 
Whats wrong with a regional sound? Thats one of biggest problems with radio today. Radio has lost that local feel. Call Bob Burke at FMQb or talk to Glenn Kalina about Q102 while they were there. They added songs that were Q tracks. You could never explain what it was but when you heard a song, you knew it was a Q track or not. Q today doesnt have that. Northeast we play a ton of freestyle in our gold rotation. San Fran I doubt would do that. I think too many stations have gone vanilla. Some songs just dont work in certain markets. The biggest problem is that a lot of dance labels dont market well to Top 40. There are some record labels and promotors that dont promote to the dance stations well either. Thats a major problem. you got to promote records and send the records to the top 40 stations to get airplay. Robbins has had success doing that. Tommyboy is starting to have success with Bob Sinclar. Thats it. Evermore Its Too Late should have been a Top 40 smash. There was a good Q&A this past week on FMQB that talks about getting records on the air and the need to create a story about the artist or song. Again the music is there but if no one knows about it, then its worthless.
 
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