Bruce, you said it well. Apparently WOGL is doing well in the ratings, but I'm not one of their listeners for the reasons you stated. Even my wife, who listened quite often to WOGL finally got bored and has tuned away to B101, WJBR, WMGK, and WBEN. I agree, that it would be great for Philly to get a real Oldies station. With WOGL doing so well in ratings though, don't look for them to be the one.
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T
Those RRRRs
Guest
They are doing so well because they are the only game in town. And the crap about "oldies doesn't sell" is a lie. But apparently it doesn't generate enough money to keep the greedy corporations happy. But remember those are the same corporations who are creating cookie cutter stations and firing thousands of people anyway so their stocks will continue to increase.
One day the bottom will fall out. It's a disgrace.
Aside from specialty shows like the countdowns and Saturday night dance party, WOGL has become increasingly focused on a short list of mostly 70s oldies. Clearly listening to consultants who are working with them to increase ratings and lower the demos. On paper, it works. But it also makes for a musically dull station. And, like Mike from DE, my TSL has gone down a lot in recent months.
They are the only game in town, if you don't count rimshot WVLT in South Jersey. But, WVLT is does not always have consistent programming (informercials, etc.) and its signal is only good in a few parts of the Philly market. So, WOGL is free to lean their format in certain constricted ways that are designed to increase sales - pure and simple.
Granted WOGL is still better than what most big markets have, though that is starting to change a bit. Citadel is rolling out two "real oldies" FMs in Washington and Atlanta to repeat its success in Chicago. However, these stations will generally have much less personality than WOGL with most music being satellite delivered. But they will also have a bigger playlist with a lot more 60s oldies. WZZN in Chicago does have some local components, including a M-F evening show with the great Dick Biondi. THAT show is a 5 hour long blast from the past!
All in all, we have PPM to thank for this. Without it, there would be few oldies stations left.
They are the only game in town, if you don't count rimshot WVLT in South Jersey. But, WVLT is does not always have consistent programming (informercials, etc.) and its signal is only good in a few parts of the Philly market. So, WOGL is free to lean their format in certain constricted ways that are designed to increase sales - pure and simple.
Granted WOGL is still better than what most big markets have, though that is starting to change a bit. Citadel is rolling out two "real oldies" FMs in Washington and Atlanta to repeat its success in Chicago. However, these stations will generally have much less personality than WOGL with most music being satellite delivered. But they will also have a bigger playlist with a lot more 60s oldies. WZZN in Chicago does have some local components, including a M-F evening show with the great Dick Biondi. THAT show is a 5 hour long blast from the past!
All in all, we have PPM to thank for this. Without it, there would be few oldies stations left.
T
Those RRRRs
Guest
Hmmm. Be afraid. Be very afraid. After all, Sunny was cheaper to run that Rhumba, and Clear Channel still blew it up!
And yes, they lost on that one too. Absolute morons.
It's a disgrace.
I still don't understand WOGL's repetition. To show that this wasn't just taken from a random week I'll give you an example from the last 24 hours.
On Tuesday morning, from 9 to 11 AM, WOGL played 25 songs--14 in the 9 o'clock hour and 11 in the 10 o' clock hour. If you go to the site (www.yes.com/#WOGL?log) you can see this list. Here's what I don't get:
Of those 25 songs, NINETEEN of them were then played again 15 hours later between midnight and 2 AM Wednesday. Not just the same artists--the EXACT SAME SONGS.
Now you could make the argument that it doesn't matter--that the listeners at 10 AM are not the listeners at midnight. Or, you could say, that if they ARE listening at both times, why fix it? Isn't the fact that they're listening that much proof that it's a successful format?
In a market with so little to choose from, not exactly.
Because my guess is that WOGL is weighing the listeners they DO have, not the ones they don't. They don't know who is NOT listening. (And since they're in 2nd place, they hardly care.)
But I still don't get the repetition. Is it about royalty fees? For example, once they play "Nowhere to Run" by Martha and the Vandellas, is it cheaper (or FREE?) to play it again within the same 24 hour period? After all, why would they constantly go back and play THE EXACT SAME SONGS over and over again?
Or--sadly--is it all done by a computer? Are songs chosen that day just recorded in their system during the night hours because they don't want to pay someone to run the system?
Whatever way you look at it, it's all about repetition.
And once another station comes in and figures that out (like the old Sunny 104.5 or the old Magic 103) WOGL's #2 position will be history overnight.
On Tuesday morning, from 9 to 11 AM, WOGL played 25 songs--14 in the 9 o'clock hour and 11 in the 10 o' clock hour. If you go to the site (www.yes.com/#WOGL?log) you can see this list. Here's what I don't get:
Of those 25 songs, NINETEEN of them were then played again 15 hours later between midnight and 2 AM Wednesday. Not just the same artists--the EXACT SAME SONGS.
Now you could make the argument that it doesn't matter--that the listeners at 10 AM are not the listeners at midnight. Or, you could say, that if they ARE listening at both times, why fix it? Isn't the fact that they're listening that much proof that it's a successful format?
In a market with so little to choose from, not exactly.
Because my guess is that WOGL is weighing the listeners they DO have, not the ones they don't. They don't know who is NOT listening. (And since they're in 2nd place, they hardly care.)
But I still don't get the repetition. Is it about royalty fees? For example, once they play "Nowhere to Run" by Martha and the Vandellas, is it cheaper (or FREE?) to play it again within the same 24 hour period? After all, why would they constantly go back and play THE EXACT SAME SONGS over and over again?
Or--sadly--is it all done by a computer? Are songs chosen that day just recorded in their system during the night hours because they don't want to pay someone to run the system?
Whatever way you look at it, it's all about repetition.
And once another station comes in and figures that out (like the old Sunny 104.5 or the old Magic 103) WOGL's #2 position will be history overnight.
The winner so far this week in WOGL's most-repeated song list is "Love Train" by the O Jays. This is when it has played on 98.1 in the first 3 days:
2 AM Monday
8 AM Tuesday
10 AM Tuesday (not kidding)
12 AM Wednesday
3 PM Wednesday
10 PM Wednesday
They must love the O Jays because that same day they played "Backstabbers" at 7 and 11 AM, respectively.
If you look at their playlist at www.yes.com/#WOGL?log you'll see that "Me and Mrs. Jones" by Billy Paul also got played Tuesday at both 8 and 10 AM . Brutal.
2 AM Monday
8 AM Tuesday
10 AM Tuesday (not kidding)
12 AM Wednesday
3 PM Wednesday
10 PM Wednesday
They must love the O Jays because that same day they played "Backstabbers" at 7 and 11 AM, respectively.
If you look at their playlist at www.yes.com/#WOGL?log you'll see that "Me and Mrs. Jones" by Billy Paul also got played Tuesday at both 8 and 10 AM . Brutal.
These posts simply convince me that tuning in to 98.1 WOGL is a waste, for my ear. So many great Oldies songs and they beat the same songs to death over and over. I keep waiting for some FM or even an flame throwing AM station to decide to take on WOGL/WMGK and give Philly a real oldies station again. My vote for a flip to real Oldies would be 93.7 WSTW, 95.7WBEN, 99.5WJBR, 102.9WMGK, or 106.1 or 950 WPEN. or 610 WIP. I realize that most of these would never consider such a move, but these stations cover the metro area quite well so they'd pull in a large oldies base from the entire tri-state Philly/Wilmington/Trenton area.
And again, you have all these other stations that are producing mediocre numbers. If you were in 17th place out of 20 stations in the fifth biggest market in the country, would you sit still? Think about it: here's WOGL playing about 400 songs, (or 20% of their so-called "2000 song playlist"), 80 % of the time. And these other stations in 12th and 17th and 19th place can't give 'em a run for their money? Can't any of these other stations step up and say, "Hey... we could play "My Guy" by Mary Wells 8 times a week TOO!"
You almost wonder if WOGL owns stock in satellite radio.
You almost wonder if WOGL owns stock in satellite radio.
Just to show you they're consistent, WOGL did the double-play thing again Thursday.
On Thursday morning, from 9 AM to 11, they played a total of 29 songs. On Friday morning, from midnight to 2 AM, they played 19 of those 29 songs again.
And don't worry if you missed it: many songs from the list (Play That Funky Music by Wild Cherry, The Love I Lost by Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes, Band of Gold by Freda Payne, Go All the Way by The Raspberries, Evil Woman by ELO, You Got It by Roy Orbison, and You Are the Sunshine of My Life by Stevie Wonder, among others) are sure to be played at least one more time Friday.
For this dubious list of repeated classics, visit www.yes.com/#WOGL?log
On Thursday morning, from 9 AM to 11, they played a total of 29 songs. On Friday morning, from midnight to 2 AM, they played 19 of those 29 songs again.
And don't worry if you missed it: many songs from the list (Play That Funky Music by Wild Cherry, The Love I Lost by Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes, Band of Gold by Freda Payne, Go All the Way by The Raspberries, Evil Woman by ELO, You Got It by Roy Orbison, and You Are the Sunshine of My Life by Stevie Wonder, among others) are sure to be played at least one more time Friday.
For this dubious list of repeated classics, visit www.yes.com/#WOGL?log
Perhaps you have too much time on your hands? One of the oldest tricks in the book is to repeat midday in overnight on a library based station. It gives the rotations a break.Then the focus is on an 18 hour music log. Do your research. Very common practise.
I heard the Me and Mrs Jones piece. It was correlated not only to Gamble and Huff's entry to the Rock and Roll hall of fame but to the Elliott Spitzer story.
So you want a deep cut 50s station with card reader talent and no relevant local content or commentary?
Ever work in Radio? Sounds like an express ticket to a 1 share!!
I heard the Me and Mrs Jones piece. It was correlated not only to Gamble and Huff's entry to the Rock and Roll hall of fame but to the Elliott Spitzer story.
So you want a deep cut 50s station with card reader talent and no relevant local content or commentary?
Ever work in Radio? Sounds like an express ticket to a 1 share!!
The 9 AM-midnight example was just to point out how obvious the repetition has become. But take some time and look at their site and you'll see what I mean. Take, for example, a group like the Commodores. They had 10 songs that made the top ten. But if you only listened to WOGL, you'd never know that; they only play 3 of those songs, each 4 to 5 times every single week. (The big 3 being Lady (You Bring Me Up), Easy, and their favorite, Brick House.) Forget Sail On or Sweet Love or Three Times a Lady (a #1 hit) or Still (another #1 hit) or even Nightshift. And don't tell me Nightshift is from the 80's...so is Lady (You Bring Me Up).
You can go through many groups like this. Neil Diamond had 3 #1 hits (Cracklin' Rosie, Song Sung Blue, and You Don't Bring Me Flowers with Barbra Streisand.) Yet the only 2 songs played (except on rare occasions--once a month, if that) are Cherry Cherry and Sweet Caroline. Chicago's "Feelin Stronger Everyday" gets at least 4 plays a week...every single week. Baby What A Big Surprise? None. Hard Habit to Break? None. If You Leave Me Now? None.
Donna Summer gets 6 or 7 plays every day. Roberta Flack? I'll bet she hasn't been played 5 times in 2008.
The Four Tops get 6 to 7 plays a day. The Fifth Dimension? Maybe once or twice a week. And as for Simon and Garfunkel, Mrs. Robinson gets more plays than all other S&G songs combined. Or take a song like "Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes" by Edison Lighthouse. They were a studio group from 1970. Their leader, a guy named Tony Burrows, did similar songs with First Class (Beach Baby) White Plains (My Baby Loves Lovin') and The Brotherhood of Man (United We Stand). Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes gets between 5 and 6 plays every week. The others, even though they all charted about the same, don't get played at all.
That's all it's about: why do so many songs never get played while others get played once a day, every day. Suspicious Minds by Elvis is okay, but 8 times in 7 days is unbelievable.
And sadly, depending on where you work, you can't always turn off what's playing in the background. "Then Came You" by Dionne Warwick and the Spinners? 6 times a week. Dionne Warwick as a solo artist? Never. She had 31 total top 40 hits. One gets played. Olivia Newton John & John Travolta's "You're The One That I Want" gets 6 plays a week too. But Olivia had 28 other top 40 hits--Hopelessly Devoted To You, Magic, Xanadu, Suddenly, Please Mr. Please, I Honestly Love You, Let Me Be There, Physical, Make A Move On Me, A Little Bit More, If You Love Me Let Me Know, Have You Never Been Mellow, If Not For You, etc. Who decides that one song deserves 6 plays a week and all these other songs not at all? Bee Gees all the time, Barry Manilow almost never. Stevie Wonder all the time, Carly Simon almost never. It's not about who, it's about balance. The play one fifth of their so-called "song collection" OVER and OVER and OVER.
If you can explain that I'm all ears...
You can go through many groups like this. Neil Diamond had 3 #1 hits (Cracklin' Rosie, Song Sung Blue, and You Don't Bring Me Flowers with Barbra Streisand.) Yet the only 2 songs played (except on rare occasions--once a month, if that) are Cherry Cherry and Sweet Caroline. Chicago's "Feelin Stronger Everyday" gets at least 4 plays a week...every single week. Baby What A Big Surprise? None. Hard Habit to Break? None. If You Leave Me Now? None.
Donna Summer gets 6 or 7 plays every day. Roberta Flack? I'll bet she hasn't been played 5 times in 2008.
The Four Tops get 6 to 7 plays a day. The Fifth Dimension? Maybe once or twice a week. And as for Simon and Garfunkel, Mrs. Robinson gets more plays than all other S&G songs combined. Or take a song like "Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes" by Edison Lighthouse. They were a studio group from 1970. Their leader, a guy named Tony Burrows, did similar songs with First Class (Beach Baby) White Plains (My Baby Loves Lovin') and The Brotherhood of Man (United We Stand). Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes gets between 5 and 6 plays every week. The others, even though they all charted about the same, don't get played at all.
That's all it's about: why do so many songs never get played while others get played once a day, every day. Suspicious Minds by Elvis is okay, but 8 times in 7 days is unbelievable.
And sadly, depending on where you work, you can't always turn off what's playing in the background. "Then Came You" by Dionne Warwick and the Spinners? 6 times a week. Dionne Warwick as a solo artist? Never. She had 31 total top 40 hits. One gets played. Olivia Newton John & John Travolta's "You're The One That I Want" gets 6 plays a week too. But Olivia had 28 other top 40 hits--Hopelessly Devoted To You, Magic, Xanadu, Suddenly, Please Mr. Please, I Honestly Love You, Let Me Be There, Physical, Make A Move On Me, A Little Bit More, If You Love Me Let Me Know, Have You Never Been Mellow, If Not For You, etc. Who decides that one song deserves 6 plays a week and all these other songs not at all? Bee Gees all the time, Barry Manilow almost never. Stevie Wonder all the time, Carly Simon almost never. It's not about who, it's about balance. The play one fifth of their so-called "song collection" OVER and OVER and OVER.
If you can explain that I'm all ears...
C
cbsstaffer
Guest
Bottom Line... "only safe game in town"...if a new station flipped to oldies, opened the Billboard book from 55 to 75, played everything in the top 100, they would bring OGL to its knees...plain and simple....
They should really take a cue from their sister station WCBS-FM, which can be somewhat repetitive at times, but nothing like what Bruce Truckman described. At least they generally play all of the big hits from their core artists, routinely cycle songs in and out, and will occasionally throw in an "oh wow" track. Don't see why this approach couldn't work on WOGL. And if this means adding more 80s music, then so be it.
Could it be " Many are called...Few are Chosen?" What if those are the songs their listeners want to hear. I am a regular listener, it is on my pre-sets but I am not as glued to the radio as some who weigh in here, but why would an obvious market leader intentionally hurt itself? They must be going where their listeners take them. How else do you win in this fickle landscape?
As to cbsstaffer, obviously not in the loop at the station, or a happy camper with the direction of their own career,wouldn't songs from 1955, 53 years ago, attract the perhaps upscale but not targeted 65+ listeners while chasing away the 40 somethings most stations like that target? It's about following the money, no?
Is there a station that plays songs from 1955 that wins in ratings anywhere?
As to cbsstaffer, obviously not in the loop at the station, or a happy camper with the direction of their own career,wouldn't songs from 1955, 53 years ago, attract the perhaps upscale but not targeted 65+ listeners while chasing away the 40 somethings most stations like that target? It's about following the money, no?
Is there a station that plays songs from 1955 that wins in ratings anywhere?
To MJB1124:
It's funny that you mention CBS-FM in New York--that's where my whole curiousity about WOGL came from. I was up in New York doing work for a few days and I had the station on while I drove. I started noticing songs I never heard anymore, songs that fit WOGL's format but just aren't played. Songs like "Time Passages" by Al Stewart and "Fool If You Think It's Over" by Chris Rea. I hadn't heard that song in years and years. When I got back to Philly I started wondering where these songs went, who decided they were in or out. That's when I started noticing the repetition that exists at OGL--the Build Me Up Buttercup/Piano Man/Jimmy Mack barrage that's so evident here. Those few days in NYC reminded me just how many great songs there were back then--even in the limited window of 64 through the 70's. So many songs that don't make the cut here for some reason.
If you go to their website in fact, they show their complete playlist ( www.wcbsfm.com ) The list has all types of names you don't hear on WOGL--The Buckinghams, The Dave Clark Five, Spanky and Our Gang, Cat Stevens, England Dan and John Ford Coley, etc. How all these bands get left out so we can be treated to "Brick House" six times a week is beyond me.
I go back to my original question: Why aren't other Philly stations copying this blatantly simple format?
It's funny that you mention CBS-FM in New York--that's where my whole curiousity about WOGL came from. I was up in New York doing work for a few days and I had the station on while I drove. I started noticing songs I never heard anymore, songs that fit WOGL's format but just aren't played. Songs like "Time Passages" by Al Stewart and "Fool If You Think It's Over" by Chris Rea. I hadn't heard that song in years and years. When I got back to Philly I started wondering where these songs went, who decided they were in or out. That's when I started noticing the repetition that exists at OGL--the Build Me Up Buttercup/Piano Man/Jimmy Mack barrage that's so evident here. Those few days in NYC reminded me just how many great songs there were back then--even in the limited window of 64 through the 70's. So many songs that don't make the cut here for some reason.
If you go to their website in fact, they show their complete playlist ( www.wcbsfm.com ) The list has all types of names you don't hear on WOGL--The Buckinghams, The Dave Clark Five, Spanky and Our Gang, Cat Stevens, England Dan and John Ford Coley, etc. How all these bands get left out so we can be treated to "Brick House" six times a week is beyond me.
I go back to my original question: Why aren't other Philly stations copying this blatantly simple format?
F
Fredrated
Guest
cbsstaffer said:
Did you really mean Top 100 or perhaps Top 10?
A station playing everything that ever charted in the Billboard Hot 100 wouldn't even crack a .1....
Top 10 maybe, but you still need to include common sense and gut feeling and not go strictly by chart numbers..or you'd be pounding Billy Don't Be A Hero every day (among others) Yummy Yummy Yummy anyone?
Music programming is more of a science than just strictly numbers.
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