"have a little bigotry with your music"

[954]

David

> > Dave ... haven't you ever heard an oldies song and said
> > "wow, I haven't heard that one in years?" Why can't you
> give
> > the listeners credit for that much intelligence, rather
> than
> > thinking they only want to listen to the top 50 of all
> time,
> > over and over and over and over again? (When's the last
> > time you heard THAT?)
> >
> > 73s from 954
> >
> WOW, I love your response to David (better say David and not
> Dave or you'll be corrected by the Authorities)!!

Sorry. I'll remember that.

> I think DE's problem is that while he may have EXTENSIVE
> background and experience in radio and radio stations
> setting up, researching, programming, engineering, hiring,
> firing, owning, selling, and selling air time (I know this
> is just a very small sample of David's extensive
> background...for a more complete story check out his website
> if you haven't already), David is not really into the Oldies
> as most of the rest of us are.

That explains a lot.

After all, Miami's short-lived classical station WKAT was ruined by hiring a PD or MD (I forget which) who wasn't really a fan of classical music. Dee Silvers alienated listeners by making fun of the music. (This is not to say that Miami couldn't support a classical station. It had WTMI for 30 years, 9 months, and 2 weeks. Until it was sold.)

Do DE's conclusions, maybe, make more sense in other genres?

73s from 954
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[davideduardo]

Re: wow this thread is still alive!

> >
> WOW, I love your response to David (better say David and not
> Dave or you'll be corrected by the Authorities)!!
> I think DE's problem is that while he may have EXTENSIVE
> background and experience in radio and radio stations
> setting up, researching, programming, engineering, hiring,
> firing, owning, selling, and selling air time (I know this
> is just a very small sample of David's extensive
> background...for a more complete story check out his website
> if you haven't already), David is not really into the Oldies
> as most of the rest of us are.

Two clarifications... maybe three.

First, I grew up on Top 40. I was so into it I went to Chicago once and camped out in the lobby of WLS till I had every jock's autograph on a photo card. I got into radio partly by being fascinated with talents like Alan Freed and Pete "Mad Daddy" Myers. My favorite stations included WABC, WLS, WKBW and others like it from that era.

Second, I interned in Mexico at a group where one of my jobs was with XERC, which payed half English and halfo Spanish Top 40 hits. One thing I did was learn to edit the Spanish and English versions into bilingual versions for a show in the afternoon called "Bilingües 7-90" where we played these for an hour.

Third, I put the first Top 40 in South America on in '64. It payed at least half English hits. I travelled often to the US to monitor new Top 40 variants, like KHJ in '65.

I collected popp music, having at one time things like the original pressings of al the Buddy Holly and the Crickets 45s and LPs... I had hundreds and hundreds of songs.

> It's not his fault because
> he may be a native born American, but his extensive travels
> around the World (high school in Equador was it?) gave him a
> chance to hear World music, much of it Latin American in
> origin and he didn't hang around Cleveland long enough and
> also was brought up in a household where exposure to Latino
> music was probably the norm therefore he grew up liking that
> music much more than Top 40 hits of the 50s and 60s.

My family did not speak Spanish. I learned it by listening to the radio...

> So he
> has a bias. We all have a bias in one way or another when
> it comes to our musical preferences and what you grew up
> listening to on the radio, records, and TV helped form that
> bias. Because David's intelligence gave him the gift of the
> ability to program oldies stations even though he only liked
> some of the music.

In 1970, I was in DC, where we put on WEEL, one of the first three or four oldies stations in the US. I did it because I thought the oldies were a better option than the rash of bubble gum at that time... 1910 Fruitgum Company, Archies, etc.

> This is just MY OBSERVATION after
> reading countless numbers of David's posts over the last 5
> years or so. I'm sure David will respond because well as
> George Strait sang "I've Come To Expect It of You".
> To David, I hope you can respond in a concise manner rather
> than picking apart each sentence. You can do that I know
> you can :>)

I simply have two more points. First, oldies is less and less viable as a format that attracts sales demos. And, personally, I find that as time goes by there are fewer and fewer old song I want to hear any more. The few I do want to hear I have on iTunes and that is it. I don't want to hear a bunch of ageing old Top 40 jocks trying to relive the 60's, either.
>
> now playing on WRLL "Rumble" - Link Wray an "Oh Wow" song
> for some of you.
>

It's an "oh, gawd" song to me. Dated, badly recorded and best forgotten.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Re: thanks for the (long as usual) reply

> I simply have two more points. First, oldies is less and
> less viable as a format that attracts sales demos.

Yes you are probably right. Does that mean Vietnamese and/or Korean formats in SoCal are more viable? (Yes I know they're mostly brokered)
Does that mean that 95.9 The Fish and any other Christian Contemporary formats are more viable?
Does that mean that 99.5 FM KKLA Christian talk and other Christian talk stations (like KWVE 107.9 owned by Calvary Church) are more viable??
Does that mean that stations like Jill FM (!!!!) are more viable??

> And,personally, I find that as time goes by there are fewer and
> fewer old songs I want to hear any more.

That's great DE!!! And you are not alone, but don't you think there are many here who totally disagree with you?

>The few I do want to
> hear I have on iTunes and that is it.

Why don't you name a few that you DO like??????? I have NEVER seen you give an example of any specific "oldies" song(s) that you like!!!

>I don't want to hear a
> bunch of aging old Top 40 jocks trying to relive the 60's,
> either.
> >

Right. In the earlier part of your post you talk about how you idolized DJs etc and your fav stations were WABC WLS etc. Mine was 990 WIBG and I idolized Hy Lit and Joe Niagra. But you don't mention the music these stations played. Why is that, David??


> > now playing on WRLL "Rumble" - Link Wray an "Oh Wow" song
> > for some of you.
> >
>
> It's an "oh, gawd" song to me. Dated, badly recorded and
> best forgotten.
>

Your last statement says a lot about YOU.

My opinion is ... YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--and you never will, but I'm sure we all can live with that :>)

 

[davideduardo]

Re: thanks for the (long as usual) reply

> > I simply have two more points. First, oldies is less and
> > less viable as a format that attracts sales demos.
>
> Yes you are probably right. Does that mean Vietnamese
> and/or Korean formats in SoCal are more viable? (Yes I know
> they're mostly brokered)

Most of that programming (Asian... Chinese dialects, Korean, Vietnamese, Tagalog, Thai) are on inferior FMs or AMs that are not viable in English or Spanish. They make tons of money based on the investment.

> Does that mean that 95.9 The Fish and any other Christian
> Contemporary formats are more viable?

In Dallas, Christian Contemporary is defintely mor eviable. Of course, part of the measure of viability is the ratio of cash fow to station price or value. A full FM in LA is worht over $300 million. It HAS to make more than a $35 million AM that is in Korean. Yet both may be very good investments.

> Does that mean that 99.5 FM KKLA Christian talk and other
> Christian talk stations (like KWVE 107.9 owned by Calvary
> Church) are more viable??

Considering what what is not Salem paid more than a decade ago, it is very viable. It is an inferior facilty, however, and does not enter into the ocmparison with a KRTH or such.

KWVE is an even worse facilty, hightly directional, and limited to lower OC. And it is run as a pastoral outreach, not a commercial station per se.

> Does that mean that stations like Jill FM (!!!!) are more
> viable??

Worst FM in LA. Bar none. Not viable at all, ever.

In general, you are comparing dreadfull signals with formats that go on major signals. The little signals are niched. The big ones are mass appeal. You can not compare them.
>
> > And,personally, I find that as time goes by there are
> fewer and
> > fewer old songs I want to hear any more.
>
> That's great DE!!! And you are not alone, but don't you
> think there are many here who totally disagree with you?

Not per the listenrs themselves. First, most oldies listeners that would like rare songs are over 55, and of literally no sales value. And, second, the under 55's did not live most of these songs so they have no emotive pull.
>
> >The few I do want to
> > hear I have on iTunes and that is it.
>
> Why don't you name a few that you DO like??????? I have
> NEVER seen you give an example of any specific "oldies"
> song(s) that you like!!!

60's to 1970: Anything by CCR.. Lots of Supremes, 4 Tops, Motown things. Union gap. Mercy. Badfinger. Almost every early Bee Gees tune, most Beach Boys and Four seasons, some Jan and Dean. Sylkie with the original Got to Hide Your Love Away. Mary Hopkin. Let it all Hang Out. Cyrkle. Tommy Roe. Iron Butterfly. Sugar Sugar, Dusty Springfield, Bryan Highland, late elvis like Suspicious Mind. Downtown. Satisfaction and some other stones like ruby tuesday. No Beatles at all. White Room, Crystals, nearly all Phil Spector wall of sound. Doors: riders and Light my Fire. Guess Who nearly anything. Grassroots. Ike and Tina - Mockingbird (1960) and Proud Mary. Etc.
>
> >I don't want to hear a
> > bunch of aging old Top 40 jocks trying to relive the 60's,
>
> > either.
> > >
>
> Right. In the earlier part of your post you talk about how
> you idolized DJs etc and your fav stations were WABC WLS
> etc. Mine was 990 WIBG and I idolized Hy Lit and Joe
> Niagra. But you don't mention the music these stations
> played. Why is that, David??

Most of it is burnt or was never a hit. Do you know how wrong the national charts were then? I visited wibbage, and liked it so much I had a dog named wibbage, too. I even bought shares in Storer because of it. But that was 40 years or more ago. I don't wear the same clothes, or use the same expressions, either.
>
>
> > > now playing on WRLL "Rumble" - Link Wray an "Oh Wow"
> song
> > > for some of you.
> > >
> >
> > It's an "oh, gawd" song to me. Dated, badly recorded and
> > best forgotten.
> >
>
> Your last statement says a lot about YOU.

I used to adore the Ventures. I had every album, and there were lots of them. At the time, they were great. But today, they embarass me and I could not stand to listen to even one cut. I don't live in 1965.
>
> My opinion is ... YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> --and you never will, but I'm sure we all can live with that
> :>)

I get it enough to have an oldies station in LA that beats KRTH. That does not mean I want to hear only oldies. Our listeners don't, either. The average adult listener listens to 3 different stations each week.

What I do get is that oldies, irrespective of the several hundred songs I may have collected, is not a viable FM format any more in most markets, especially the larger ones. This is because the listeners are too old.

 

[954]

old Top 40 jocks trying to relive the 60s, per DE

> And, personally, I find that as time goes by there are fewer and
> fewer old song I want to hear any more.

Good for you, David! So listen to American Top 40. But quit trying to make oldies obsolete by minjimizing the audience or its importance.

There are very few songs since the 70s (other than specific genres like jazz, classical, and country) that interest me on more than an occasional basis. But I can enjoy music of the 20 and 30s (dismuke.org), 40s, and 50s all the time without being bored. There are so many I've never heard before!

What makes your _personal_preference_ more important than mine?

> The few I do want to
> hear I have on iTunes and that is it. I don't want to hear a
> bunch of ageing old Top 40 jocks trying to relive the 60's,
> either.

That's nice.

I'd much prefer THAT to young jocks playing the rap and crap that passes for music today.

73s from 954
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