HD-2 channels now showing in ratings without translators

[radiogooroo]

I got to take a look at the entire ratings report for Houston a few days ago. In Houston, there are now two HD-2 channels making a showing in the PPM ratings - one of which is doing better than several AM stations in the market. These are HD-2 channels which aren't being translated on analog.

Previously, I thought there was no measurable HD-2 listening taking place because the only ratings reports I had looked at were the publicly available ones. It hadn't occurred to me that just because the parent station subscribes, that doesn't necessarily mean Arbitron is going to publicly share the ratings for their non-subscribing HD subchannels.

It makes me wonder how many other PPM markets are like Houston, and have HD-2 channels showing up in their full ratings reports.

I guess those new vehicles being sold with HD Radios in them are finally starting to move the needle.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Which ones? I looked up the April PPM's and didn't see any in the top 20.

Houston is a bit of a weird market - the over the air channels basically suck - ALL the good stuff is on HD-2. One example is oldies - Houston is one of the only major markets without an oldies / classic hits station, so I wouldn't be surprised if KRBE-HD2 or KGLK-HD2 shows up on the ratings. Smooth jazz is on one or two HD-2 channels, etc. Formats that formerly were on the air and have been the victims of relatively recent format changes. It is so bad over the air, I can't find enough stations to fill up the presets, so I leave them on settings for Dallas or Austin when I travel there.

 

[nd2023]

Just because HD2s are showing up in the ratings doesn't mean that people are listening over the air.

 

[iyiyi]

Just because HD2s are showing up in the ratings doesn't mean that people are listening over the air.

I guess it just means that those PPM devices people wear are the only things that bother listening to the OTA HD2s then.

-

 

[Mediafrog+]

I guess those new vehicles being sold with HD Radios in them are finally starting to move the needle.

Probably so. Seems HD radio is becoming standard in the audio systems of most new cars, along with available SiriusXM. People are starting to buy cars again after the big economic bust.

However other HD radios, such as small portables, table models, or components of a larger system are virtually nonexistent. Where have all these gone? Are any still available? Where?

 

[mmnassour]

Just because HD2s are showing up in the ratings doesn't mean that people are listening over the air.

I guess it just means that those PPM devices people wear are the only things that bother listening to the OTA HD2s then.

-

Or maybe it's a repeater broadcast?

 

[radiogooroo]

Which ones? I looked up the April PPM's and didn't see any in the top 20.

You won't see them unless you're an Arbitron subscriber. The HD2 channels don't subscribe, so they don't show up. Ditto for a few streams. There are a couple of those in Houston that show up in the PPM ratings occasionally.

KTBZ-HD2 is one of them. Forgot what the other one is. I'll have to check.

 

[radiogooroo]

Or maybe it's a repeater broadcast?

Definitely not. There's only one HD2 being translated on analog in the market, and that's not one of the two that shows up.

 

[davideduardo]

I got to take a look at the entire ratings report for Houston a few days ago. In Houston, there are now two HD-2 channels making a showing in the PPM ratings - one of which is doing better than several AM stations in the market. These are HD-2 channels which aren't being translated on analog.

I looked at the ratings for the last 6 months, and found only one HD-2 without a translator which had any presence...

KTBZ-HD2 did not make any of the books, but they showed up with a 0.2 in several individual weeks, but never in more than one of the 4 weeks in a book.

I can't see any other HD-2, and don't find any that have "made the book" for the full 4 week average.

 

[davideduardo]

KTBZ-HD2 did not make any of the books, but they showed up with a 0.2 in several individual weeks, but never in more than one of the 4 weeks in a book.

Typo... that should be 0.1.

In other words, one meter / one household or dwelling unit.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Which ones? I looked up the April PPM's and didn't see any in the top 20.

You won't see them unless you're an Arbitron subscriber. The HD2 channels don't subscribe, so they don't show up. Ditto for a few streams. There are a couple of those in Houston that show up in the PPM ratings occasionally.

KTBZ-HD2 is one of them. Forgot what the other one is. I'll have to check.

Please do - I don't see them here:

http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb033

 

[radiogooroo]

Please do - I don't see them here:

http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb033

The two stations, which show up in PPM weeklies occasionally are KTBZ-HD2 and KLTN-HD2.

 

[davideduardo]

You won't see them unless you're an Arbitron subscriber. The HD2 channels don't subscribe, so they don't show up. Ditto for a few streams. There are a couple of those in Houston that show up in the PPM ratings occasionally.

The HD2 and streams of subscribed stations, I believe, do show in the public release of 6+ data.

The reason why the KTBZ HD-2 did not show in the published ranker is that it has never "made the book" for a full 4 week survey; it has only appeared a couple of times in the last 40 weeks that I looked at with an occasional 0.1 in one week.

I can't find any HD 2 that has appeared in a full book, and the KTBZ HD2 is the only one that has occasionally popped up in weeklies that I can find in the last few months.

 

[davideduardo]

Please do - I don't see them here:

http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb033

The two stations, which show up in PPM weeklies occasionally are KTBZ-HD2 and KLTN-HD2.

KLTN-HD did not exactly "show" as in the past 78 weeks it appeared once with a 0.0 which is arbitron's way of saying "bubbling under" and just below the MRS for a 0.1 share (they got a 0.1 in evenings and weekends, but nothing else). That was the 2nd week of May of 2012, or 13 months ago.

 

[radiogooroo]

The HD2 and streams of subscribed stations, I believe, do show in the public release of 6+ data.

The reason why the KTBZ HD-2 did not show in the published ranker is that it has never "made the book" for a full 4 week survey; it has only appeared a couple of times in the last 40 weeks that I looked at with an occasional 0.1 in one week.

I can't find any HD 2 that has appeared in a full book, and the KTBZ HD2 is the only one that has occasionally popped up in weeklies that I can find in the last few months.

Regardless, audio from HD-2 channels has now been measured by PPM devices. I never said it was setting the world on fire, just that PPM has detected some measurable level of listening from two HD-2 channels in the Houston market.

 

[davideduardo]

The HD2 and streams of subscribed stations, I believe, do show in the public release of 6+ data.

The reason why the KTBZ HD-2 did not show in the published ranker is that it has never "made the book" for a full 4 week survey; it has only appeared a couple of times in the last 40 weeks that I looked at with an occasional 0.1 in one week.

I can't find any HD 2 that has appeared in a full book, and the KTBZ HD2 is the only one that has occasionally popped up in weeklies that I can find in the last few months.

Regardless, audio from HD-2 channels has now been measured by PPM devices. I never said it was setting the world on fire, just that PPM has detected some measurable level of listening from two HD-2 channels in the Houston market.

That's a valid point. I'd bet $100 that the listening came from inadvertent in-car listening where a receiver that was HD capable was tuned "across" an HD2 channel and the listener tried the station for a few days after discovering it.

 

[Ai4i]

I'd bet $100 that the listening came from inadvertent in-car listening where a receiver that was HD capable was tuned "across" an HD2 channel and the listener tried the station for a few days after discovering it.

Is this not how a lot of radio discovery works?
Let us modify the Paul Drake Equation for our use.
The human population within the station's coverage area.
The number of HD receivers owned by them.
The number of HD receivers in current use.
The number of receivers in which people actually tune around outside of their presets.
The likelihood of finding content they want.
Figuring out how to preset the new station.

Look at the NYC board. The first requirement is in the high teen millions and they, at least the posters on the boards, seem to be taking it seriously.

 

[nd2023]

I'd bet $100 that the listening came from inadvertent in-car listening where a receiver that was HD capable was tuned "across" an HD2 channel and the listener tried the station for a few days after discovering it.

Is this not how a lot of radio discovery works?
Let us modify the Paul Drake Equation for our use.
The human population within the station's coverage area.
The number of HD receivers owned by them.
The number of HD receivers in current use.
The number of receivers in which people actually tune around outside of their presets.
The likelihood of finding content they want.
Figuring out how to preset the new station.

Look at the NYC board. The first requirement is in the high teen millions and they, at least the posters on the boards, seem to be taking it seriously.

The bad HD coverage limits the potential population by a lot. There are a lot of HD receivers with HD reception intentionally disabled because of the bad transitions when the HD1 drops out. Some HD radios don't allow HD2s to be preset. Even if HD2s can be preset, it will take several seconds to tune in to them if there's a strong signal, even longer when the signal is weak. A lot of people have apps like iHeartRadio or TuneIn, which list local HD2 stations. If they have a PPM and listen to the HD2 stream, it will count towards the ratings.

 

[Barry]

AllAccess is reporting today that KSHE HD2 in St. Louis is the first HD2 in a top 50 market to have ratings in Arbitron books for 2 consecutive months. Furthermore, it can only be heard on HD2. It is not rebroadcast on translators; I believe it is not even available online.
I had posted a few months ago that this is a rather unique HD2, as it has its own separate PD, and has "underwriters", resembling public radio. KSHE HD2 broadcasts freeform classic rock.
Perhaps this is an indication that there is a potential audience for quality and unusual programming on HD2.

"Underground" Radio: http://www.kshe95.com/HighDefinition/

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Even if HD2s can be preset, it will take several seconds to tune in to them if there's a strong signal, even longer when the signal is weak.

That is the biggest annoyance to me - practically ALL my presets are on HD-2. There are probably a dozen HD-2's and one HD-3 in Houston that have compelling formats - unlike the analog and HD-1 which are the poorest it has ever been my displeasure to deal with. The lock time going from HD-2 to the next HD-2 is annoying as heck!

I don't have any signal problems - I have a REAL antenna on my car, not a shark fin, nub, or other ridiculous compromise. The biggest problem I have is interference from local osciallators in other cars, causing HD to drop out in mine. I had a 97.1 fan right beside me for 4 miles this morning - UGH! He would move a little bit out of range, I'd get HD back on 107.5. I see this guy about one day out of five on my commute. 97.1 isn't the most popular station in town, but he cranks it enough I can tell the station even with his window closed. Then he would get back beside me - HD GONE! Darn I wish somebody had thought of this problem before they put the sidebands on first adjacent channels. BAD engineering. Really BAD! I suspect a variant of this problem is what people all over the country are experiencing as HD coverage issues.

Oh and home radios are doing it, too. I drive down a street, somebody listening to the Arrow 93.7 causes 104.1 KRBE-HD-2 to drop out. Same street, every day. He had his window open one day so I verified what station he had on.