HD DIGITAL RADIO QUESTION

[700WLW]

ElCheapo wrote: Wireless internet is targeted for 2008 automobiles? What color of crack are you smoking?"

You're either quite ignorant about wireless Internet technologoes such as Mobile Wimax, Wibro and EV-DO or you are in denial. I've been listening to flawless Internet radio reception every day for well over a year in my car all over Southern California and adjoining states. Yes, I'm a bit of an early adopter, but many more will be following soon. Ubiquitous wireless Internet is HD Radio's worst nightmare, second only to public apathy.

Right... And what exactly are you listening to on your laptop while you drive around?

I obviously made a huge mistake here - I thought I was dealing with people who could at least fathom what normal people are like and how they use radio.

My bad...

I will be installing Internet Radio in my car in 2008 - meanwhile, I listen to AOL Radio while I post !

 

[vsa]

ElCheapo wrote: "Why don't you share 5 of these high quality internet stations you listen to all the time with the rest of the class?"

You want 5? Well, I can't say I listen to all that many different stations. But these are among my favorites:

Radio Paradise - http://207.200.96.231:8002
The Current - http://currentstream2.publicradio.org/current
Virgin Radio, London - http://85.159.184.49:80
Sky FM's Classical & Flamenco Guitar - mms://wstream5b.di.fm/guitar
AccuRadio Comedy - http://lb2.accuradio.com/asx?channel=Comedy&sub=SubPrimary&br=accuradio&intro=true

These are all Windows Media or AAC+ streams. I mostly use Windows Media Player 10 for Pocket PC or TCPMP v0.71 with an AAC+ plug-in as my players. All of them sound more than adequate through my car stereo system. I could stream at higher bitrates, but my car's stereo can't really tell the difference so why use more bandwidth, although I have an all-I-can-eat service?

 

[ElCheapo]

ElCheapo wrote: "Why don't you share 5 of these high quality internet stations you listen to all the time with the rest of the class?"

You want 5? Well, I can't say I listen to that many different stations. But these are among my favorites:

Radio Paradise - http://207.200.96.231:8002
The Current - http://currentstream2.publicradio.org/current
Virgin Radio, London - http://85.159.184.49:80
Sky FM's Classical & Flamenco Guitar - mms://wstream5b.di.fm/guitar
AccuRadio Comedy - http://lb2.accuradio.com/asx?channel=Comedy&sub=SubPrimary&br=accuradio&intro=true

These are all Windows Media or AAC+ streams. I mostly use Windows Media Player 10 for Pocket PC or TCPMP v0.71 with an AAC+ plug-in as my players. All of them sound more than adequate through my car stereo system. I could stream at higher bitrates, but my car's stereo can't really tell the difference so why use more bandwidth, although I have an all-I-can-eat service?

The Radio Paradise server reports 6 people are listening with a capacity of 300.

Virgin is reporting 12 people listening with a capacity of 2000.

You're right - terrestrial radio should be scared to death.

 

[Chuck]

I couldn't get the comedy linkto work, but the rest certainly did. SKY FM sounded very good on my wireless laptop.

Right now, Internet listening isn't that big a deal. My station has been streaming for some time now. On a good weekday we get 40-50 listeners at a time. Sometimes, less. That's not much, but probably more people than are listening to HD radio stations in many large metros. The kicker is we are a very small rural station in Arbitron market 148.

I can't help but think there is a potential there. It is not here yet, but I think it is coming. In the mean time it isn't very expensive to participate.

 

[vsa]

ElCheapoDinosaur wrote: "The Radio Paradise server reports 6 people are listening with a capacity of 300. Virgin is reporting 12 people listening with a capacity of 2000. You're right - terrestrial radio should be scared to death."

You don't know Internet radio. These are new and rarely-used AAC+ streams. Each of these stations serve up many types of streams at various speeds. Their Windows Media and 128k MP3 streams are extremely popular. Both stations have many thousands of simultaneous listeners. Besides, Internet radio's prime time is weekday business hours.

Dinosaur.

 

[Chuck]

The Radio Paradise server reports 6 people are listening with a capacity of 300.

Virgin is reporting 12 people listening with a capacity of 2000.

You're right - terrestrial radio should be scared to death.

To be fair, it is Sunday night. We are running a show produced by local High School students. I'm not listening off the air, much less on the Internet, and I doubt that many other people are either. Sunday night is the "Dead Zone."

How many people are listening to your station? And what percentage is that of your daytime listenership? I'll bet the percentages are similar.

 

[vsa]

Chuck wrote: "How many people are listening to your station?"

Did I say I have a station?

I invite you to check out http://www.shoutcast.com . They list up to thousands of MP3 and AAC+ streams starting by the most popular. Each station's current audience level is posted and varies by daypart. Windows Media stream stats aren't so easily available to everyone. Read the numbers and weep. Traditional radio has a long way to go in catching up to most streamers. At least you are in the game.

 

[Chuck]

Each of these stations serve up many types of streams at various speeds. Their Windows Media and 128k MP3 streams are extremely popular. Both stations have many thousands of simultaneous listeners. Besides, Internet radio's prime time is weekday business hours.

That is a good point. You were just looking at Shoutcast stats. Most Internet stations have multiple streams, one for each format. That makes it very hard to get an accurate nose count by just looking at one stream's stats.

 

[Chuck]

Chuck wrote: "How many people are listening to your station?"

Did I say I have a station?

I invite you to check out http://www.shoutcast.com . T

Actually, my comments were directed at El Cheapo. I run a licensed FM radio station that also streams in Shoutcast, Windows Media and Real formats.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[vsa]

Chuck,

No problem. Sorry, I misunderstood.

I see HD Radio as a very poor Internet radio wanna-be. Its bandwidth is limited. Its signal is horrible - effective out to barely only about 90dbu in the real world until you have to add an unsightly antenna. It's data services are just trying to copy what Internet radio has to do by statute in the U.S.

 

[ElCheapo]

ElCheapoDinosaur wrote: "The Radio Paradise server reports 6 people are listening with a capacity of 300. Virgin is reporting 12 people listening with a capacity of 2000. You're right - terrestrial radio should be scared to death."

You don't know Internet radio. These are new and rarely-used AAC+ streams. Each of these stations serve up many types of streams at various speeds. Their Windows Media and 128k MP3 streams are extremely popular. Both stations have many thousands of simultaneous listeners. Besides, Internet radio's prime time is weekday business hours.

Dinosaur.

You can call me names all you want. That still doesn't change the fact that internet radio is zero threat at the moment - the infrastructure to get it into cars conveniently just isn't there. The limited infrastructure that does exist isn't free - so it suffers from the same basic problem that satellite radio does, only many of the internet streams also feature commercials - which makes them worse than satellite. My wireless broadband service costs nearly $20 per month, and I know there's no way I could use it on the move - it barely works when it's not moving.

If I wanted to get mobile broadband through Sprint, it would cost me $59 per month for unlimited bandwidth. That's 5X the cost of satellite - which itself has very limited penetration.

Not only are you paying more, you're getting less - and that's if the technology was convenient, which it's not.

Yeah... I can see other people dropping $60 per month for this...

 

[vsa]

I pay Verizon Wireless $40 for unlimited wireless data at about 700-800kbps down and 110kbps up, in addition to my voice plan. It'll come down once Mobile Wimax kicks in. As upload speeds increase, I'll drop the voice plan and go wireless VOIP. Yes, $40 or $60 a month is a lot of money, but I wouldn't go back now, even if the price stayed this high.

As the price drops, the popularity will increase. It was the same with wired broadband, ElCheapo. Meanwhile, you're waiting for the price of single-purpose HD radios to drop.

People willingly, even gladly, pay for broadband Internet access. Internet radio is considered a free bonus that comes along for the ride.

 

[ElCheapo]

I pay Verizon Wireless $40 for unlimited wireless data at about 700-800kbps down and 110kbps up, in addition to my voice plan. It'll come down once Mobile Wimax kicks in. As upload speeds increase, I'll drop the voice plan and go wireless VOIP. Yes, $40 or $60 a month is a lot of money, but I wouldn't go back now, even if the price stayed this high.

As the price drops, the popularity will increase. It was the same with wired broadband, ElCheapo. Meanwhile, you're waiting for the price of single-purpose HD radios to drop.

People willingly, even gladly, pay for broadband Internet access. Internet radio is considered a free bonus that comes along for the ride.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Cable companies have an amazing amount of bandwidth in their networks - especially since they're using fiber now.

Strange... That hasn't caused the prices for cable modems to plummet that much. I'm paying $20 per month for horrible service from clearwire because I didn't want to pay the cable company $50 for it (which has turned out to be a mistake.)

Cell service has become cheaper, but they still aren't giving it away either. My cell phone bill runs close to $80 per month after all the junk fees are added on.

Somehow, I just can't see mobile internet reaching a price point that threatens terrestrial radio of any kind or even satellite radio in the near future.

If people aren't willing to pay $10 for satellite, they're certainly not going to pay $40 - $60 for internet radio in the car.

Technology aside, most peoples tastes just aren't that exotic. Radio is convenient and free. It will continue to be convenient and free. When HD prices come down, people will be enjoying that convenient, free service as well.

 

[vsa]

ElCheapo wrote: "I guess we'll just have to wait and see."

You're right. Time will ultimately tell.

My point though is that most people will WANT wireless Internet access for its convenience. Webcasters don't and won't have to worry about selling specialized radios. People own or buy Internet access devices. The Internet radio part comes free. No radio purchase is required - unlike XM, Sirius, HD and even old fashioned radio. Gradually, it will become every bit as easy to use as an analog radio.

Internet-only webcasters have been busy building their brands online for several years now, building loyal audiences.

Have you started yet?

 

[ElCheapo]

ElCheapo wrote: "I guess we'll just have to wait and see."

You're right. Time will ultimately tell.

My point though is that most people will WANT wireless Internet access for its convenience. Webcasters don't and won't have to worry about selling specialized radios. People own or buy Internet access devices. The Internet radio part comes free. No radio purchase is required - unlike XM, Sirius, HD and even old fashioned radio. Gradually, it will become every bit as easy to use as an analog radio.

Internet-only webcasters have been busy building their brands online for several years now, building loyal audiences.

Have you started yet?

Of course...

Radio has offered streaming for years. Even Virgin which you cited earlier is primarily a terrestrial broadcaster.

All of the Clear Channel HD channels are available online.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

ElCheapo said:

All of the Clear Channel HD channels are available online.

And tens of thousands of other streams to choose from as well, not even mentioning podcasts and downloads. Wow! All that, and mini personal choice programmed iPods and cell phones too!
Ain't life grand in the world of new technology.

 

[700WLW]

ElCheapo wrote: "I guess we'll just have to wait and see."

You're right. Time will ultimately tell.

My point though is that most people will WANT wireless Internet access for its convenience. Webcasters don't and won't have to worry about selling specialized radios. People own or buy Internet access devices. The Internet radio part comes free. No radio purchase is required - unlike XM, Sirius, HD and even old fashioned radio. Gradually, it will become every bit as easy to use as an analog radio.

Internet-only webcasters have been busy building their brands online for several years now, building loyal audiences.

Have you started yet?

Of course...

Radio has offered streaming for years. Even Virgin which you cited earlier is primarily a terrestrial broadcaster.

All of the Clear Channel HD channels are available online.

More and more broadcasters will move to streaming online, as there will be Internet Radio in automobiles, as early as 2008, and portable Internet Radio receivers are currently hitting the market. HD Radio will fail, and what will be left will be Internet Radio and analog receivers. Clear Channel is already moving to streaming over cell phones.