7
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Ignore WiMax at your own peril, broadcasters.
Now that digital, High Definition, FMeXtra (www.derinc.com) and other delivery systems, are here, all that adjacent channel interference from HD Radio is unnecessary. I seems HD Radio and NRSC-5a, may never get final FCC approval.
700WLW said:
Ignore WiMax at your own peril, broadcasters.
Now that digital, High Definition, FMeXtra (www.derinc.com) and other delivery systems, are here, all that adjacent channel interference from HD Radio is unnecessary. I seems HD Radio and NRSC-5a, may never get final FCC approval.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Have you actually READ that article? He concludes that HD has a future, if compelling programming is offered. The answer to his own question (about it being "dead on arrival") is NO!
Have you actually READ that article? He concludes that HD has a future, if compelling programming is offered. The answer to his own question (about it being "dead on arrival") is NO!
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
I especially like the next to last paragraph of the article...
"What is astonishingly clear to a radio person at CES is how opportune, not threatening, new tech is. Let's harness the potential of HD-R by avoiding radio business-as-usual on HD2."
Taking things in context. What a concept!
I especially like the next to last paragraph of the article...
"What is astonishingly clear to a radio person at CES is how opportune, not threatening, new tech is. Let's harness the potential of HD-R by avoiding radio business-as-usual on HD2."
Taking things in context. What a concept!
7
700WLW
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
What you fail to take into account, is something called Portable Internet Radio via WiFi/WiMax - why, spend money on HD radios, with just lousy local programming, when Portable Internet radios get thousands of world-wide stations, including HD Radio stations. IBOC does not work, as advertised over the broadcast bands, causing adjacent-channel interference and has only 60% the coverage of analog - seems like a no-brainer !
Mike Walker said:
What you fail to take into account, is something called Portable Internet Radio via WiFi/WiMax - why, spend money on HD radios, with just lousy local programming, when Portable Internet radios get thousands of world-wide stations, including HD Radio stations. IBOC does not work, as advertised over the broadcast bands, causing adjacent-channel interference and has only 60% the coverage of analog - seems like a no-brainer !
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Here's a better one. Why take 700 seriously when he alternates between "I love radio! I listen all the time. That oldies show on WABC is wonderful". and "Why waste time with local radio?"
Most of what's on internet radio IS LOCAL RADIO. Most of the highest rated online streams are RADIO STATIONS! Here's a better complexity...why go through the frustrations and limitations of a point to single-point network like an i.p. connection over the internet, with limitations in coverage and bandwidth, not to mention cost(as in recurring monthly fee!), when you can just get the freakin' digital signal FOR FREE over the air, whether you pay a bundle for wireless internet access or not?
Here's a better one. Why take 700 seriously when he alternates between "I love radio! I listen all the time. That oldies show on WABC is wonderful". and "Why waste time with local radio?"
Most of what's on internet radio IS LOCAL RADIO. Most of the highest rated online streams are RADIO STATIONS! Here's a better complexity...why go through the frustrations and limitations of a point to single-point network like an i.p. connection over the internet, with limitations in coverage and bandwidth, not to mention cost(as in recurring monthly fee!), when you can just get the freakin' digital signal FOR FREE over the air, whether you pay a bundle for wireless internet access or not?
7
700WLW
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Why, listen to local AM ? I do, listen to out-of-state AM every night and Scott Sloan WLW and WABC Saturday Night Oldies are favorites - I actually called in one night and got to talk with him on-air (scared to death). Having grow up on SW, and now that it is mostly religious fanatics, the only thing left is nighttime AM, with all the comforting hisses, fading, pops, and crackles - is that about, what iNiquity claims ? Yes, most comsumers have ISPs (here we go again) and Internet Radio is part of that for free - why, listen to just lousy local stations, when one can get thousands, from all over the world (just wait, for portable internet radio to proliferate):
"Quickly Find 1400 Plus FREE Internet Radio Stations"
http://www.radiotower.com/
Reception of HD Radio is problematic, at best, even with external antenna systems.
Mike Walker said:
Why, listen to local AM ? I do, listen to out-of-state AM every night and Scott Sloan WLW and WABC Saturday Night Oldies are favorites - I actually called in one night and got to talk with him on-air (scared to death). Having grow up on SW, and now that it is mostly religious fanatics, the only thing left is nighttime AM, with all the comforting hisses, fading, pops, and crackles - is that about, what iNiquity claims ? Yes, most comsumers have ISPs (here we go again) and Internet Radio is part of that for free - why, listen to just lousy local stations, when one can get thousands, from all over the world (just wait, for portable internet radio to proliferate):
"Quickly Find 1400 Plus FREE Internet Radio Stations"
http://www.radiotower.com/
Reception of HD Radio is problematic, at best, even with external antenna systems.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Neither internet radio, nor any other i.p. technology where bandwidth costs skyrocket as listenership increases, will EVER supplant "point to multipoint" technologies such as terrestrial and satellite, where costs DECREASE (per-capita) as audience increases.
With internet radio, it's actually possible for a company to become bankrupt by success. "Hey yout think we're losing money at 10,000 streams, wait till you see how much we can lose with 200,000!"
Neither internet radio, nor any other i.p. technology where bandwidth costs skyrocket as listenership increases, will EVER supplant "point to multipoint" technologies such as terrestrial and satellite, where costs DECREASE (per-capita) as audience increases.
With internet radio, it's actually possible for a company to become bankrupt by success. "Hey yout think we're losing money at 10,000 streams, wait till you see how much we can lose with 200,000!"
7
700WLW
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Prove it !
Mike Walker said:
Prove it !
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Mike said:
#1-No they are not. Listening to licensed radio station streams only amount to 20 to 30% of total internet radio listening, and few over the air stations are among the highest rated.
#2-Most people already have internet access, and computers, so it costs nothing extra to listen to internet radio. Nothing (like expensive, single purpose HD radios) to buy, no monthly fees, and you can even listen to many of the satellite radio streams, local radio station streams, and tens of thousands of other stations, worldwide, at no extra cost.
Multipoint internet streaming is already here, so repeating point to point comments about internet streaming and costs, are irrelevant, and pointless.
Mike also said:
Is that the same thing as:
We are loosing money broadcasting on 1,000 HD radio stations but we are hoping for 10,000 more!
Remember, HD radio has cost a lot, and so far has no revenue, much less profits.
Mike said:
#1-No they are not. Listening to licensed radio station streams only amount to 20 to 30% of total internet radio listening, and few over the air stations are among the highest rated.
#2-Most people already have internet access, and computers, so it costs nothing extra to listen to internet radio. Nothing (like expensive, single purpose HD radios) to buy, no monthly fees, and you can even listen to many of the satellite radio streams, local radio station streams, and tens of thousands of other stations, worldwide, at no extra cost.
Multipoint internet streaming is already here, so repeating point to point comments about internet streaming and costs, are irrelevant, and pointless.
Mike also said:
Is that the same thing as:
We are loosing money broadcasting on 1,000 HD radio stations but we are hoping for 10,000 more!
Remember, HD radio has cost a lot, and so far has no revenue, much less profits.
7
700WLW
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
"Quickly Find 1400 Plus FREE Internet Radio Stations"
http://www.radiotower.com/
Click on the link, pull down "Browse By Country", then tell me most of the stations are local !
Mike Walker said:
"Quickly Find 1400 Plus FREE Internet Radio Stations"
http://www.radiotower.com/
Click on the link, pull down "Browse By Country", then tell me most of the stations are local !
SOMEBODY'S got to say it, so I will.
When I weighed-in on HD Radio during my presentation at the recent Radio Advertising Bureau convention, reaction was 50/50 gasps/howling.
And after I was mouthing-off about it at Arbitron's annual Consultant Fly-In, RadioWorld asked me to commit my review of The Emperor's New Clothes to writing: http://members.aol.com/cookeh/RadioWorld022207.pdf
Several Chief Engineers have Emailed me "THANK YOU!" and "CONGRATULATIONS!"
Don't shoot the messenger...
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
When I weighed-in on HD Radio during my presentation at the recent Radio Advertising Bureau convention, reaction was 50/50 gasps/howling.
And after I was mouthing-off about it at Arbitron's annual Consultant Fly-In, RadioWorld asked me to commit my review of The Emperor's New Clothes to writing: http://members.aol.com/cookeh/RadioWorld022207.pdf
Several Chief Engineers have Emailed me "THANK YOU!" and "CONGRATULATIONS!"
Don't shoot the messenger...
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
M
Mike Walker
Guest
First of all, THANKS FOR POSTING HERE PERSONALLY. Second, for those who will pile on saying that you believe HD offers nothing of value, please back me up. That ain't what you said. You said that, if properly implemented with some VALUE to extra streams...such as taking AM talk stations where they haven't gone before (something I have believed should be done with HD2 streams for a LONG time), and if the public is properly educated about the advantages, then new technology like HD (wi-fi, etc.) is a net plus...a real enhancement, not just little-understood marketing b.s. But you've got to get it right. Otherwise, the detractors are right.
Did I summarize your point of view correctly?
Did I summarize your point of view correctly?
Mike: THANK YOU.
You got it right, and I'm glad I wasn't misunderstood.
This'll be what-we-make-of-it.
But until receivers proliferate, it's all academic.
Even if nothing ever comes of it, innovation NOW can yield on-air and online content options we'd not otherwise hear.
You got it right, and I'm glad I wasn't misunderstood.
This'll be what-we-make-of-it.
But until receivers proliferate, it's all academic.
Even if nothing ever comes of it, innovation NOW can yield on-air and online content options we'd not otherwise hear.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
By LOCAL I mean TERRESTRIAL. They are "local" radio...as in AM or FM stations that broadcast to a local community. Here's the first page of "North Carolina" from YOUR link. http://www.radiotower.com/?c_code=USA - North Carolina&h_i=0&h_r=6
NOTE: THEY'RE ALMOST ALL TERRESTRIAL, "local" radio stations, just as I said!
Find WWWC, WKSK, WNCW. WFAE, WDAV, WUNC, WLYT, or WNYC on there. ALL STREAM ONLINE FROM THEIR WEBSITES, as do most REAL radio stations (the ones with transmitters and antennas, who measure their audience in thousands, rather than dozens, or even single digits.
Check out the total number of people using shoutcast sometime. With all those so called "stations". 198,000 and change total now. And they're averaging "thousands" of "stations". Say it's a thousand "stations" (it's a lot more!). That's 198 listeners per station. Math, what a concept...especially for a computer whiz like you! Wait...if it's ten thousand stations, that's 19.8 listeners per station. Do you even think about the validity of your arguments?
Sure there are lots of sad little guys playing radio in the basement, running a Shoutcast server to their 15 listeners. THAT AIN'T RADIO!
By LOCAL I mean TERRESTRIAL. They are "local" radio...as in AM or FM stations that broadcast to a local community. Here's the first page of "North Carolina" from YOUR link. http://www.radiotower.com/?c_code=USA - North Carolina&h_i=0&h_r=6
NOTE: THEY'RE ALMOST ALL TERRESTRIAL, "local" radio stations, just as I said!
Find WWWC, WKSK, WNCW. WFAE, WDAV, WUNC, WLYT, or WNYC on there. ALL STREAM ONLINE FROM THEIR WEBSITES, as do most REAL radio stations (the ones with transmitters and antennas, who measure their audience in thousands, rather than dozens, or even single digits.
Check out the total number of people using shoutcast sometime. With all those so called "stations". 198,000 and change total now. And they're averaging "thousands" of "stations". Say it's a thousand "stations" (it's a lot more!). That's 198 listeners per station. Math, what a concept...especially for a computer whiz like you! Wait...if it's ten thousand stations, that's 19.8 listeners per station. Do you even think about the validity of your arguments?
Sure there are lots of sad little guys playing radio in the basement, running a Shoutcast server to their 15 listeners. THAT AIN'T RADIO!
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Read the RAIN site and the lead article from yesterday, where it shows that every Internet stream today will lose enormous amounts of money (from Pandora on down...) based on the just-approved per-performance per-stream cost of RIAA licensing.
A number of large streaming only stations say the RIAA cost will be nearly double the potential ad revenue per 1000 streams, based on standard stream CPMs that advertisers are willing to pay.
700WLW said:
Prove it !
Read the RAIN site and the lead article from yesterday, where it shows that every Internet stream today will lose enormous amounts of money (from Pandora on down...) based on the just-approved per-performance per-stream cost of RIAA licensing.
A number of large streaming only stations say the RIAA cost will be nearly double the potential ad revenue per 1000 streams, based on standard stream CPMs that advertisers are willing to pay.
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Here are the Arbitron ratings for the highest rated internet streamers.
On air streaming stations are definitely in the minority with listeners. All broadcasters are always shouting "we're #1!", As usual, Mike's claims, such as
Total non-broadcast streaming listeners exceed broadcast streaming listeners by a wide margin.
Here are the links:
http://www.arbitron.com/onlineradio/home.htm
http://www.arbitron.com/onlineradio/home.htm
Here are the Arbitron ratings for the highest rated internet streamers.
On air streaming stations are definitely in the minority with listeners. All broadcasters are always shouting "we're #1!", As usual, Mike's claims, such as
are, once more, debunked.
Total non-broadcast streaming listeners exceed broadcast streaming listeners by a wide margin.
Here are the links:
http://www.arbitron.com/onlineradio/home.htm
http://www.arbitron.com/onlineradio/home.htm
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Re: "Cooke: Is HD Radio Dead on Arrival?"
Just because there are a few very popular online streamers, does not mean that IN TOTAL online streaming of terrestrial radio isn't dominant, any more than having an AM talk station as the market leader means that more people listen to AM than FM in a market. Apples and oranges.
Just because there are a few very popular online streamers, does not mean that IN TOTAL online streaming of terrestrial radio isn't dominant, any more than having an AM talk station as the market leader means that more people listen to AM than FM in a market. Apples and oranges.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Thank YOU, Sir. People here think I'm extremely pro HD. Not so. I'm extremely pro DIGITAL RADIO. I have an HD radio, and really enjoy ONE Local station broadcasting classical at a high data rate. It sounds PHENOMENAL. But the vast majority of HD2 streams are lackluster. I WISH someone would put some of the talk stations I CAN'T hear on HD2. Hell, maybe that little jazz station at Winston Salem State University (with limited coverage) would make a great HD2 stream for someone. Let's get creative!
- Status