HD info - total newbie

[LinoNYC]

This from a radio professional broadcast list, this may tell you how many radio pros over here feel about iBlock:


"I think that I am actually going to take my Accurate Radio Shack Hot Damn
receiver apart to see what is not in it.

I have an easier way. Follow a sanitation truck that's just compacted
its load. Since very few have been sold you might have to stalk the
entire department.

Also, never use the term accurate in this context. It's an Accurian.
Accurate isn't a term that in any way applies to this product."

Do you think "quoting" a message board means anything?

It's populated by people like you, hobbyists and others with a frustrated agenda sitting in their basements with ancient radios.

Their "advice" if anyone listened to it, would kill the industry they love.

Really, why bother?

Lino

 

[radiosgalore]

They do allow it. Their specs on occupied bandwidth in the AM service (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/47cfr73.44.htm) have not been revised, and yet HD appears to violate that rule. You'll note that the rule permitting hybrid-HD operation (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...ccess.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/47cfr73.404.htm) requires filtering or other means to avoid messing up the occupied-bandwidth spec for FM stations (subsection e9), but says nothing about AM's except that they "may" reduce their sideband transmissions by 6 dB to avoid interference.

oh gawd! and i thought our Ofcom was bad. according to posters on UK radio forums AM is about dead over there with only major and clear channel stations making any money. There has to be a better way. DRM perhaps?

 

[vsa]

This statement is just plain silly.

Mr. Burns is holding back and being way too modest. HD Radio sounds awesome! The programming is amazing! It's a miracle of technological innovation! The station signals are very robust and cause absolutely no interference or hash! It's a raving success! It's all Americans are talking about! Honest! As honest as our banks are solvent!

It's hard to find an HD radio because they sell out so quickly. Haven't you read about the many riots over HD radios as they are delivered to stores? Many people act like they don't care about it or pretend it's a failure because they've been trying to buy an HD radio sooooo badly for sooooo long. They are trying to discourage others so they'll be able to buy one before someone else grabs it. All the kids in the neighborhood would gladly trade their iPods and other mp3 players for even the cheapest HD radio if they had a chance.

Feel better now?

Never felt better. How many millions of HD radios have been sold in total so far? Have they hit 0.4 yet?

Oh and when internet radio joins Chumby in the niche archive, I promise not to laugh at you........too loud.

Tens of millions of Americans now listen to Internet radio every week and the numbers grow every year. It's a fact. Arbitron says it's 33 million now!

http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=621199

In case you have not noticed, people aren't willing to pay for music anymore, and except for us radio geeks,  the average person won't go to much trouble to listen online. Free city wide WI-Fi/ Wimax isn't going to happen, I'am very sorry to say that but it seems true. There is no question that mass streaming of audio packets will require a much larger pipeline so, do you think that most people will pay extra for it?

Ask the satellite operators.

You're setting up a strawman, then knocking him down.

http://www.convergedigest.com/bp/bp1.asp?ID=521&ctgy=Loop

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...tworks-ready-lte-north-america_540110_13.html

While I resent yout attitude here, I do understand where your mind is "at" regarding the future of radio.  However in my contacts I have seen that the youngest Americans aren't going to bother that much with mass-programmed aural media, however it is delivered.. They (and I ) can roll our own.

Lino

So you're saying that all forms of radio are history. Then why are you bothering with HD radio?

 

[KB1OKL]

This from a radio professional broadcast list, this may tell you how many radio pros over here feel about iBlock:


"I think that I am actually going to take my Accurate Radio Shack Hot Damn
receiver apart to see what is not in it.

I have an easier way. Follow a sanitation truck that's just compacted
its load. Since very few have been sold you might have to stalk the
entire department.

Also, never use the term accurate in this context. It's an Accurian.
Accurate isn't a term that in any way applies to this product."

Do you think "quoting" a message board means anything?

It's populated by people like you, hobbyists and others with a frustrated agenda sitting in their basements with ancient radios.

Their "advice" if anyone listened to it, would kill the industry they love.

Really, why bother?

Lino

This list which I took this exchange from is NOT populated by hobbyists, in fact I am probably one of the only amateur radio operators that only operates ham radio on that list, many there do it but as an adjunct to their professions which are broadcast engineering, programming, consulting etc. in professional radio, many have been in it for years and you would recognize many of them and their stations. It is a real cross section of radio pros there and 99.9% agree that IBOC is a waste of time and money and most also think it is destructive to radio in general and that's their opinion, not mine although I agree with them, I rarely post there as a matter of fact.

 

[LinoNYC]

Tens of millions of Americans now listen to Internet radio every week and the numbers grow every year. It's a fact. Arbitron says it's 33 million now!

http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=62119

Talk about a "straw man", I read the article, what neither they, nor anyone else ever specifies is what sort of net radio. Most people aren't very adventurous and are probably listening to their favorite local station's feed in situation where it is otherwise unavailable.

But...thanks for the link, it had another story, this on HD radio that you conviently overlooked:

http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=636323

Quoting: Consumer awareness of HD Radio currently stands at 77 percent, according to a survey of radio listeners from Critical Mass Media. In another study of current or likely auto buyers by J.D. Powers, 31 percent said they want HD Radio in their next vehicle.

If I said something such as this, people would this I was crazy.

So, either it's true, or the website and the survey are b.s. Which is it?

In case you have not noticed, people aren't willing to pay for music anymore, and except for us radio geeks, the average person won't go to much trouble to listen online. Free city wide WI-Fi/ Wimax isn't going to happen, I'am very sorry to say that but it seems true. There is no question that mass streaming of audio packets will require a much larger pipeline so, do you think that most people will pay extra for it?

Ask the satellite operators.

You're setting up a strawman, then knocking him down.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my point. Most people that listen over the internet are going to be listening to their favorite local station, they'll do so when ota isn't available but are thus unlikely to pay for the extra fee that mobile use entails.

Sure there are people like me that might like to take "Hotwave" from Bangkok with them, but how many will pay for that.

http://www.hotwave.fm/

While I resent yout attitude here, I do understand where your mind is "at" regarding the future of radio. However in my contacts I have seen that the youngest Americans aren't going to bother that much with mass-programmed aural media, however it is delivered.. They (and I ) can roll our own.

Lino

So you're saying that all forms of radio are history. Then why are you bothering with HD radio?

I said they aren't going to bother "much" with mass media, not that they have zero interest but that radio will never again occupy the major place it had for them just 8-9 years ago.

As for HD radio, it's main attributes are that it cleans-up FM, may lure back some lost listeners with the secondary channels (if ever treated as the resource they can be) and it may offer a last chance for AM.

Lino

 

[calstymes]

Personally, I think that since no AM stations are entitled to be heard outside of their primary coverage area anymore, newly constructed AM receivers with HD capability built in should ALSO have GPS capability built in to the extent that these devices will know where they are located on the planet. This way, if a user attempts to tune to a frequency that doesn't have a local station on it, the receiver can announce to the user that an illegal frequency has been tuned and it will automatically correct it to the nearest local frequency.

It seems to me that this is the only way that this sideband interference issue will be resolved.

 

[vsa]

Tens of millions of Americans now listen to Internet radio every week and the numbers grow every year. It's a fact. Arbitron says it's 33 million now!

http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=62119

Talk about a "straw man", I read the article, what neither they, nor anyone else ever specifies is what sort of net radio. Most people aren't very adventurous and are probably listening to their favorite local station's feed in situation where it is otherwise unavailable.

But...thanks for the link, it had another story, this on HD radio that you conviently overlooked:

http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=636323

Quoting: Consumer awareness of HD Radio currently stands at 77 percent, according to a survey of radio listeners from Critical Mass Media. In another study of current or likely auto buyers by J.D. Powers, 31 percent said they want HD Radio in their next vehicle.

If I said something such as this, people would this I was crazy.

So, either it's true, or the website and the survey are b.s. Which is it?

In case you have not noticed, people aren't willing to pay for music anymore, and except for us radio geeks, the average person won't go to much trouble to listen online. Free city wide WI-Fi/ Wimax isn't going to happen, I'am very sorry to say that but it seems true. There is no question that mass streaming of audio packets will require a much larger pipeline so, do you think that most people will pay extra for it?

Ask the satellite operators.

You're setting up a strawman, then knocking him down.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my point. Most people that listen over the internet are going to be listening to their favorite local station, they'll do so when ota isn't available but are thus unlikely to pay for the extra fee that mobile use entails.

Sure there are people like me that might like to take "Hotwave" from Bangkok with them, but how many will pay for that.

http://www.hotwave.fm/

While I resent yout attitude here, I do understand where your mind is "at" regarding the future of radio. However in my contacts I have seen that the youngest Americans aren't going to bother that much with mass-programmed aural media, however it is delivered.. They (and I ) can roll our own.

Lino

So you're saying that all forms of radio are history. Then why are you bothering with HD radio?

I said they aren't going to bother "much" with mass media, not that they have zero interest but that radio will never again occupy the major place it had for them just 8-9 years ago.

As for HD radio, it's main attributes are that it cleans-up FM, may lure back some lost listeners with the secondary channels (if ever treated as the resource they can be) and it may offer a last chance for AM.

Lino

Lino, looking at the jumbled stuff above, you're mixing your quotes with mine, making it look like I said something that you actually said. I'm sooooooo confused! ;D

 

[rbrucecarter5]

The "DXing is dead" argument has been expanded by pro-IBOCers to a stance that "anyone listening outside the local station's Nighttime Interference-Free Contour (NIF) is, by definition, a DXer, and is not entitled to any degree of listenable signal from a local station."

Look ahead 50 years:

"President Chelsea Clinton today mandated and end all analog radio broadcasting. Digital transmission will now be keyed to GPS receivers integral to radios, so that the listener can be guaranteed local content as they travel from one location to another. All attempts to circumvent the system will be deemed a criminal act, as it is unnecessary to receive irrelevant, propagandized broadcasts from outside of your locality. It is also a criminal act because the RIAA is concerned about illegal analog recording of copyrighted material. Any persons caught receiving illegal analog broadcasts will be subject to fines and imprisonment."

As I was typing the fictional future above, I was thinking less of April Fools Day and more of Hitler banning all shortwave radios in World War 2.

 

[Chuck]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my point. Most people that listen over the internet are going to be listening to their favorite local station, they'll do so when ota isn't available but are thus unlikely to pay for the extra fee that mobile use entails.

Lino

That doesn't seem to be the case. Look at Shoutcast statistics: http://www.shoutcast.com/ttsl.html

I think you will find that very few of the top Internet radio stations are actually over the air broadcasters. Those that are tend to be NPR, PRI or other forms of community/public broadcasting. There are some big numbers of listeners though….

If people are listening to these non broadcast stations, then they are not listening to conventional radio. HD will not fix that.

 

[necrat123]

Look ahead 50 years:

"President Chelsea Clinton today

Chelsea will be one old president.
In 50 years she'll be 78.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my point. Most people that listen over the internet are going to be listening to their favorite local station, they'll do so when ota isn't available but are thus unlikely to pay for the extra fee that mobile use entails.

Lino

That doesn't seem to be the case. Look at Shoutcast statistics: http://www.shoutcast.com/ttsl.html

I think you will find that very few of the top Internet radio stations are actually over the air broadcasters. Those that are tend to be NPR, PRI or other forms of community/public broadcasting. There are some big numbers of listeners though….

If people are listening to these non broadcast stations, then they are not listening to conventional radio. HD will not fix that.

There sure is a whole lot of "illegal" non-local listening going on. Most of these stations don't have over the air broadcasting licenses. Tsk, tsk. Hmmm.. Shoutcast is totally FREE!

 

[Tom Wells]

The "DXing is dead" argument has been expanded by pro-IBOCers to a stance that "anyone listening outside the local station's Nighttime Interference-Free Contour (NIF) is, by definition, a DXer, and is not entitled to any degree of listenable signal from a local station."

Look ahead 50 years:

"President Chelsea Clinton today mandated and end all analog radio broadcasting. Digital transmission will now be keyed to GPS receivers integral to radios, so that the listener can be guaranteed local content as they travel from one location to another. All attempts to circumvent the system will be deemed a criminal act, as it is unnecessary to receive irrelevant, propagandized broadcasts from outside of your locality. It is also a criminal act because the RIAA is concerned about illegal analog recording of copyrighted material. Any persons caught receiving illegal analog broadcasts will be subject to fines and imprisonment."

As I was typing the fictional future above, I was thinking less of April Fools Day and more of Hitler banning all shortwave radios in World War 2.

Careful! I got flamed for suggesting the deaf HD "local only" mode of radio was exactly like the Reich's Volks-receivers.
The 3-tube design would only tune the approved frequencies on MW and was too deaf to hear MW from anywhere else.
The only other radio services I can think of that are only good for 15 miles are CB radio and HD radio.
And at least with CB, you can hear it trying....even if it's weak. With HD, the all or nothing nature means there's a lot more nothing than something.

 

[Savage]

Yes, yes - and CB radios don't need 50kw and a 3-tower directional array to get 15 miles!! :

 

[KB1OKL]

At that rate a 5 watt CB radio in glorious IBOC would lock in all the way up to 2.64 ft and cover the adjacents up to 66 ft away ;D