"HD Radio -- It's The Programming, Stupid!"

[dbdigital]

I thought this quote by writer Ben Fong-Torres really sums up the troubled state radio finds itself...

db

"Vanishing Fast: Radio Careers"

"We have had consolidation in radio for over ten years now and even after a flirtation with virtual voice tracking, the industry is fast becoming a nonstarter for serious careers."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/vanishing-fast-radio-careers.html

Interesting post today by Jerry - looks like he agrees with you...

Here Del Colliano is talking about how consolidation is killing radio as a career choice for newcomers and those who have been in radio for years are getting out. What we are seeing is a talent vacuum occurring in radio, a condition Jerry sees as a by-product of the Telcom Act of 1996.

The point that I was making concerns the abandonment by radio of those who are (or were) most loyal to it, older listeners. In Los Angeles, for example, we have no less than 6 FM stations playing urban. Now why in the hell do we need a half dozen stations playing this format, when there are zero FM stations playing adult standards? This is not serving the public interest but only those of a few faceless, monolithic conglomorates desperate to court a young audience who are already listening to urban by other means. As it is, there is very little variety in the L.A. market anyway and certainly nothing to attract older listeners.

Will HD-Radio with its extra channels mitigate this problem? Hard to say since those who broadcast HD-R are the same ones causing the problem. I can tell you one thing, the vast majority of older listeners won't be buying HD-R to find out.

db

 

[R.F. Burns]

I thought this quote by writer Ben Fong-Torres really sums up the troubled state radio finds itself...

db

"Vanishing Fast: Radio Careers"

"We have had consolidation in radio for over ten years now and even after a flirtation with virtual voice tracking, the industry is fast becoming a nonstarter for serious careers."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/vanishing-fast-radio-careers.html

Interesting post today by Jerry - looks like he agrees with you...

Here Del Colliano is talking about how consolidation is killing radio as a career choice for newcomers and those who have been in radio for years are getting out. What we are seeing is a talent vacuum occurring in radio, a condition Jerry sees as a by-product of the Telcom Act of 1996.

The point that I was making concerns the abandonment by radio of those who are (or were) most loyal to it, older listeners. In Los Angeles, for example, we have no less than 6 FM stations playing urban. Now why in the hell do we need a half dozen stations playing this format, when there are zero FM stations playing adult standards? This is not serving the public interest but only those of a few faceless, monolithic conglomorates desperate to court a young audience who are already listening to urban by other means. As it is, there is very little variety in the L.A. market anyway and certainly nothing to attract older listeners.

Will HD-Radio with its extra channels mitigate this problem? Hard to say since those who broadcast HD-R are the same ones causing the problem. I can tell you one thing, the vast majority of older listeners won't be buying HD-R to find out.

db

That's quite an assumption to make. What do you base your comments concerning older people (How old) and HD radio? I keep reading comments concerning content. OK, what content do you think would attract large numbers of listeners that aren't being heard now? As to older listeners, radio is a business which relies on agency buys. Agencies don't want anyone over the age of 50 at best and they prefer people in their 20's and late teens. Now knowing that what format would attract the largest percentage of listeners in that demographic?

 

[davideduardo]

That's quite an assumption to make. What do you base your comments concerning older people (How old) and HD radio? I keep reading comments concerning content. OK, what content do you think would attract large numbers of listeners that aren't being heard now? As to older listeners, radio is a business which relies on agency buys. Agencies don't want anyone over the age of 50 at best and they prefer people in their 20's and late teens. Now knowing that what format would attract the largest percentage of listeners in that demographic?

Just to clarify, agencies generally (with few exceptions) don't want anyone over 55... because the clients they represent don't want 55+. Further, there are very few radio buys for under-18's. Neither teens nor seniors are often seen as targets for agency buys.

About 80% of all buys fall in the 25-54 demo, or some subset... like 25-44 Hispanic Females. The rest is in 18-34 (which overlap).

So, radio stations aim at some segment of 18-54. Many spill into teens or 55+, but that is a demo they don't go after, just one they get as a consequence of appealing to young adults or the higher end of 25-54.

Radio usage is going to be lighter in 12-17 and 55+ because we do not try to attract them because we can not make money doing that.

 

[fritobandito]

You seem to have a very well developed idea of personalities for such a new participant.
Perhaps we have already "met", under a different name. Yours, I mean.
You might let us know how many different names you are using.

And I trust Pocketradio not to break my radios, so I too am glad he's on my side.
I consider him to be a very effective and tireless reporter of news.
It is wonderful that his best work is the most annoying to you.
As I have said before, he provides balance, and hopefully his contributions annoy you as much as iBOC hiss on AM annoys us.

It may not be news of interest to those with closed minds, but for those who still care, his contributions are much appreciated.

You can read this forum for exactly 5 minutes and figure out what this guy's all about. Several people in this forum that appear to be against HD Radio are also against this guy. I just recently read posts from Cal Stymes and "dumber than a box of hair" that basically said he's embarassing them.

The discussion forums I like to participate in are there for discussion. I assume this one is too. This guy doesn't seem to want to discuss anything. He simply tries to shout people down with generally off-topic links to other sites. Need proof? Just take a look at this thread. He attempts to take it in several different directions, none of which are relevant to the original post.

You did nail it though. He is annoying. Anyone that purposely derails every conversation just because they don't agree with the subject matter would have to be considered annoying.

 

[dbdigital]

I thought this quote by writer Ben Fong-Torres really sums up the troubled state radio finds itself...

db

"Vanishing Fast: Radio Careers"

"We have had consolidation in radio for over ten years now and even after a flirtation with virtual voice tracking, the industry is fast becoming a nonstarter for serious careers."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/vanishing-fast-radio-careers.html

Interesting post today by Jerry - looks like he agrees with you...

Here Del Colliano is talking about how consolidation is killing radio as a career choice for newcomers and those who have been in radio for years are getting out. What we are seeing is a talent vacuum occurring in radio, a condition Jerry sees as a by-product of the Telcom Act of 1996.

The point that I was making concerns the abandonment by radio of those who are (or were) most loyal to it, older listeners. In Los Angeles, for example, we have no less than 6 FM stations playing urban. Now why in the hell do we need a half dozen stations playing this format, when there are zero FM stations playing adult standards? This is not serving the public interest but only those of a few faceless, monolithic conglomorates desperate to court a young audience who are already listening to urban by other means. As it is, there is very little variety in the L.A. market anyway and certainly nothing to attract older listeners.

Will HD-Radio with its extra channels mitigate this problem? Hard to say since those who broadcast HD-R are the same ones causing the problem. I can tell you one thing, the vast majority of older listeners won't be buying HD-R to find out.

db

That's quite an assumption to make. What do you base your comments concerning older people (How old) and HD radio? I keep reading comments concerning content. OK, what content do you think would attract large numbers of listeners that aren't being heard now? As to older listeners, radio is a business which relies on agency buys. Agencies don't want anyone over the age of 50 at best and they prefer people in their 20's and late teens. Now knowing that what format would attract the largest percentage of listeners in that demographic?

Just look at the current Bridge Ratings statistics.

http://www.bridgeratings.com/

They project very modest future growth for HD Radio but a very high use of terrestrial radio by older people. That tells me that the majority of older listeners will still be using analog. Bridge also indicates that the majority of young people consider the internet as the preferred way to hear radio.

So therein lies the dilemma. Terrestrial radio is losing younger audiences to other media and rapidly losing older listeners as their favorite stations get flipped to formats that stink (like urban). And I'm sure this situation isn't lost on advertisers.

I don't know, you figure it out. But I think the days of "getting large numbers of listeners" is over and, indeed, I don't even consider this mindset relevent. As along as a station can serve a loyal core of listeners with the programming they like, it will find advertisers and it will make money.

db

 

[fritobandito]

You can read this forum for exactly 5 minutes and figure out what this guy's all about. Several people in this forum that appear to be against HD Radio are also against this guy. I just recently read posts from Cal Stymes and "dumber than a box of hair" that basically said he's embarassing them.

The discussion forums I like to participate in are there for discussion. I assume this one is too. This guy doesn't seem to want to discuss anything. He simply tries to shout people down with generally off-topic links to other sites. Need proof? Just take a look at this thread. He attempts to take it in several different directions, none of which are relevant to the original post.

You did nail it though. He is annoying. Anyone that purposely derails every conversation just because they don't agree with the subject matter would have to be considered annoying.

Another thing. Several of the threads in this forum have hundreds of reads but I only see a few active participants. Must be a lot of lurkers reading this soap opera. They might be more interested in actually participating if the environment was less "annoying."

Just food for thought.

Back to lurking.

 

[R.F. Burns]

I thought this quote by writer Ben Fong-Torres really sums up the troubled state radio finds itself...

db

"Vanishing Fast: Radio Careers"

"We have had consolidation in radio for over ten years now and even after a flirtation with virtual voice tracking, the industry is fast becoming a nonstarter for serious careers."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/vanishing-fast-radio-careers.html

Interesting post today by Jerry - looks like he agrees with you...

Here Del Colliano is talking about how consolidation is killing radio as a career choice for newcomers and those who have been in radio for years are getting out. What we are seeing is a talent vacuum occurring in radio, a condition Jerry sees as a by-product of the Telcom Act of 1996.

The point that I was making concerns the abandonment by radio of those who are (or were) most loyal to it, older listeners. In Los Angeles, for example, we have no less than 6 FM stations playing urban. Now why in the hell do we need a half dozen stations playing this format, when there are zero FM stations playing adult standards? This is not serving the public interest but only those of a few faceless, monolithic conglomorates desperate to court a young audience who are already listening to urban by other means. As it is, there is very little variety in the L.A. market anyway and certainly nothing to attract older listeners.

Will HD-Radio with its extra channels mitigate this problem? Hard to say since those who broadcast HD-R are the same ones causing the problem. I can tell you one thing, the vast majority of older listeners won't be buying HD-R to find out.

db

That's quite an assumption to make. What do you base your comments concerning older people (How old) and HD radio? I keep reading comments concerning content. OK, what content do you think would attract large numbers of listeners that aren't being heard now? As to older listeners, radio is a business which relies on agency buys. Agencies don't want anyone over the age of 50 at best and they prefer people in their 20's and late teens. Now knowing that what format would attract the largest percentage of listeners in that demographic?

Just look at the current Bridge Ratings statistics.

http://www.bridgeratings.com/

They project very modest future growth for HD Radio but a very high use of terrestrial radio by older people. That tells me that the majority of older listeners will still be using analog. Bridge also indicates that the majority of young people consider the internet as the preferred way to hear radio.

So therein lies the dilemma. Terrestrial radio is losing younger audiences to other media and rapidly losing older listeners as their favorite stations get flipped to formats that stink (like urban). And I'm sure this situation isn't lost on advertisers.

I don't know, you figure it out. But I think the days of "getting large numbers of listeners" is over and, indeed, I don't even consider this mindset relevent. As along as a station can serve a loyal core of listeners with the programming they like, it will find advertisers and it will make money.

db

First I don't know anything about Bridge ratings. I do know that acordingb to arbitron terrestrial radio is doing well. As for the internet, all that represents is a delivery system. What are they listening to on the internet? For instance my father who lives in Florida listens to WFAN on the internet all the time. He does that because he doesn't have access to their over the air broadcast. By the way, he's in his late 70's. The same doom and gloom was said about the big TV networks when cable bacame available and you know what? While the TV nets don't get 40 plus shares any longer. Still today, far and wide they crush the competition, numbers wise. I'm not too worried about radio. None of these webcasters do anymore than provide cheap music formats. Sports rights are way beyond the netcasters income and none have a serious news bureau or provide traffic or anything else that radio can do. The "old time radio" streamers are playing some programs illegally. I happen to work with the creator and producer of the radio mystery theater (yes he's stilll alive) and he's fed up with all of his copyrights being stolen by these guys. Once more people disover these netcaters they might find they have more legal troubles than they figured on.

 

[Chuck]

As to older listeners, radio is a business which relies on agency buys. Agencies don't want anyone over the age of 50 at best and they prefer people in their 20's and late teens. Now knowing that what format would attract the largest percentage of listeners in that demographic?

Most businesses need to re-invent themselves every now and then. I've found that every 7-10 years seems to be the norm if you want to survive. I don't think that radio is much different. That may explain the current attraction to HD as an attempt to fix whatever is broken. Radio has been pretty stagnant for the last few years, so it is a convenient to blame everything on technology (or maybe the lack of cutting edge technology). I think that is just a diversion. We all recognize there is some kind of problem, but we seem undecided about what it might be.

Perhaps the problem is not with technology. It might not really be an immediate programming issue either, except for the fact that ad agencies dictate who you program to. Does anyone else think that might be a problem?

Broadcasting is about money. Sure, the path of least resistance is to pander to agency buys. Their desires, rightly or wrongly have a huge influence on programming. They are the ones who tell you the 20-35 demographic is the only one worth pursuing. Maybe they are right, but I’ll submit that if station account executives got off their cumulative rear ends and actually SOLD something, they might find that there is gold in other demographics. The problem is it is easier to be an order taker than it is to actually sell your product in a manner that might actually benefit your clients. That requires a lot of work, but when it is properly done, everyone wins.

It is going to be increasingly hard to ignore the aging Baby Boom generation. They are not going to the rest home quietly, and they resent being put out to pasture. The agencies may not recognize them but they are a force to be reckoned with. Bowing to agencies is simply taking the easy way out. These people can be sold, and the market is huge.

I'm sure I'll get a blast from the usual suspects, but one of radios problems is they are victims of their own success. "We've always done it that way" is a great excuse for stagnation.

 

[PocketRadio]

Another thing. Several of the threads in this forum have hundreds of reads but I only see a few active participants. Must be a lot of lurkers reading this soap opera. They might be more interested in actually participating if the environment was less "annoying."

Just food for thought.

Back to lurking.

Actually, when Statsaholic was working, radio-info.com was getting 20 million hits a day, just through Alexaholic. So, if you look at the number of "views" on the HD Radio board, not that many are interested in HD Radio. But wait - there is one very important "stooge", who is wasting time reading/writing HD Radio blogs (I posted this months ago, but this one is classic):

"Where's Waldo - FOLLOW UP"

Here's Peter's response to this morning's blog, "Where's Waldo?":

"Taking a page out of radio’s guerrilla marketing playbook, we had HD Radio orange uniformed street teams (15 people) handing out HD Radio VIP lanyards at the People Mover stations as attendees traveled to the two industry days... In addition, both last and this coming weekend we took the HD Radio messaging to the streets using 5 two-sided mobile billboards traveling the traffic filled streets of Detroit around Convention Center. At 2:30 each day the trucks caravanned in front of the center making a spectacular site! The mobile billboards carried HD Radio and car specific art and messages including Drive, Listen Love, More free radio in your car, New radio stations…. for free, More choices than ever on the dial, Love your car… love your radio."

Reader comments:

"Peter Ferrara was a stooge at Clear Channel, and he continues to be a stooge for this most stillborn of consumer products. Why doesn't he just form the Cassette Player Alliance? Might be less of a waste of time. HD Radio is an abysmal response to the competitive issues facing people who own terrestrial radio licenses today."

http://jacobsmedia.typepad.com/jacobs/2007/01/peter_ferrara_p.html

 

[davideduardo]

Perhaps the problem is not with technology. It might not really be an immediate programming issue either, except for the fact that ad agencies dictate who you program to. Does anyone else think that might be a problem?

The agencies do not do any such thing. Agency clients tell agencies what ages that want to advertise to. Agencies simply buy per those orders. If you want to run a 55+ radio station, you just won't find much money coming in, since advertisers are not interested in your demos. But you are free to program whatever you want. Nobody dictates the format... but if you want to fish, go where they are biting.

Broadcasting is about money. Sure, the path of least resistance is to pander to agency buys.

Pandering? Get real! If I have a cloting store, and only stock purple men's suits, nobody will buy. If I stock the fashionable colors and sizes, at good prices, I will probably be successful. Radio accepts the needs of advertisers, and designs products (formats) that are useful to advertisers.

Their desires, rightly or wrongly have a huge influence on programming.

Only insofar as the ages of interest go. You can program any format you want; you get sales if you deliver listeners in 18-34 and 25-54 or some subset of these. That is the way ad-supported radio has always worked.

They are the ones who tell you the 20-35 demographic is the only one worth pursuing.

Wrong again. About 80% of buys are in all or part of 25-54... sometimes as specific as English Dominant Hispanic Females 25-44... and the rest are in 18-34.

Maybe they are right, but I’ll submit that if station account executives got off their cumulative rear ends and actually SOLD something, they might find that there is gold in other demographics.

Agencies are only buying per orders of the client, who has often spent millions designing, packaging and marketing a product to a specific demo. No amount of whining to the agency time buyers will change the demo on a buy.

The problem is it is easier to be an order taker than it is to actually sell your product in a manner that might actually benefit your clients. That requires a lot of work, but when it is properly done, everyone wins.

It will come as a surprise to you, but most sellers are not lazy and dumb. Most work very hard, and are bright and well trained. But you can't change a demo at an agency in 99.9% of the occasions.

It is going to be increasingly hard to ignore the aging Baby Boom generation. They are not going to the rest home quietly, and they resent being put out to pasture. The agencies may not recognize them but they are a force to be reckoned with. Bowing to agencies is simply taking the easy way out. These people can be sold, and the market is huge.

It's the clients who dictate this, not the agency. And the reason clients don't buy 55+ is that there is a negative or limited ROI on the ad costs... it costs more to make thee sale than the profit on the sale in older demos for radio ads.

 

[calstymes]

fritobandito keenly observed:

He is annoying. Anyone that purposely derails every conversation just because they don't agree with the subject matter would have to be considered annoying.

He is worse than annoying. And the only reason why he is still here is because people still acknowledge him.

The only way we will eventually be rid of him forever is to wise up to his tactics and ignore him COMPLETELY.

 

[dbdigital]

As to older listeners, radio is a business which relies on agency buys. Agencies don't want anyone over the age of 50 at best and they prefer people in their 20's and late teens. Now knowing that what format would attract the largest percentage of listeners in that demographic?

Most businesses need to re-invent themselves every now and then. I've found that every 7-10 years seems to be the norm if you want to survive. I don't think that radio is much different. That may explain the current attraction to HD as an attempt to fix whatever is broken. Radio has been pretty stagnant for the last few years, so it is a convenient to blame everything on technology (or maybe the lack of cutting edge technology). I think that is just a diversion. We all recognize there is some kind of problem, but we seem undecided about what it might be.

Perhaps the problem is not with technology. It might not really be an immediate programming issue either, except for the fact that ad agencies dictate who you program to. Does anyone else think that might be a problem?

Broadcasting is about money. Sure, the path of least resistance is to pander to agency buys. Their desires, rightly or wrongly have a huge influence on programming. They are the ones who tell you the 20-35 demographic is the only one worth pursuing. Maybe they are right, but I’ll submit that if station account executives got off their cumulative rear ends and actually SOLD something, they might find that there is gold in other demographics. The problem is it is easier to be an order taker than it is to actually sell your product in a manner that might actually benefit your clients. That requires a lot of work, but when it is properly done, everyone wins.

It is going to be increasingly hard to ignore the aging Baby Boom generation. They are not going to the rest home quietly, and they resent being put out to pasture. The agencies may not recognize them but they are a force to be reckoned with. Bowing to agencies is simply taking the easy way out. These people can be sold, and the market is huge.

I'm sure I'll get a blast from the usual suspects, but one of radios problems is they are victims of their own success. "We've always done it that way" is a great excuse for stagnation.

Well said. The greying of America is a fact, just ask AARP. And Boomers, having lived through the decades that saw the greatest growth and diversification of pop music, are very eclectic in their musical tastes. They can rock and they can swing. This makes them prime candidates for satellite and internet radio which can satisfy that eclecticism. However they do listen to terrestrial radio also, at least for now.

But if terrestrial radio insists on turning its collective back on them, which appears to be the trend, don't be surprised if Boomers respond in kind.

db

 

[Mike Walker]

There are 15 million TOTAL satellite radio listeners in the US. Compared with 250 million terrestrial listeners. 94 percent of Americans listen to terrestrial radio! "At least for now". Radio's demise has been prematurely reported for more than 60 years. I ain't holdin' my breath. Terrestrial radio will outlive ALL of the skeptics in this generation, and the next!

 

[Chuck]

The agencies do not do any such thing.

Actually, they (or maybe their clients) do by specifying a demo that they want to buy. It is indirect, but it is real. If you want morons to buy your product, and that just happens to be the biggest group, then you program to morons. When you have 30 (or sometimes many more) stations in a market, all trying to target the same audience, very few will win. Just how thin can you slice that pie?

There can be good profit in doing something that nobody else is doing.

Pandering? Get real!

So what would you call it?

It will come as a surprise to you, but most sellers are not lazy and dumb. Most work very hard, and are bright and well trained. But you can't change a demo at an agency in 99.9% of the occasions.

No, it wouldn't come as a surprise to me. I've had the pleasure of working with some people who actually had their clients best interests at heart, even if that did not include an immediate buy on the salesman's station. Unfortunately, they are the exception, not the rule. There is plenty of dead wood out there. (That's not exclusive to radio, it's sales in general.)

Only insofar as the ages of interest go. You can program any format you want; you get sales if you deliver listeners in 18-34 and 25-54 or some subset of these. That is the way ad-supported radio has always worked.

Yep, like I said "That's the way we've always done it." My suggestion is, maybe it is time to think differently. It's just a thought, but would never think for a moment that you would believe it is worth considering.

 

[PocketRadio]

This is similar to what is happening with DTV. The extra video streams have, so far, yielded little in the way of compelling programming. Most of it is just filler. This will no doubt change in time. But I get the impression that programmers, both in radio and television, really don't know what to do with these extra streams...

db

"Satellites Out"

"The sad thing is, terrestrial radio is walking the same path of lackluster content with HD. I realize that, unlike satellite radio, HD is free once you buy a new radio, but so what? Where's the must-have content that makes a listener's current radio not good enough? Oh god, some bozo is going to mention a music mix again. I can't believe that in this age of instant gratification we still have broadcasters stupid enough to believe that waiting to hear a song you like on a playlist is a form of compelling entertainment. Honestly, I find that mentality shocking and downright sad."

http://thisisthebox.com/2007/05/satellites_out.shtml

Outside of sports and talk radio on AM, there is very little compelling content on terrrestrial radio (and I really wouldn't say that sports/talk is "compelling") - broadcasters don't know what to do with the HD channels, because they have no clue about their analog streams. It is highly-doubtful that this situation will ever change - what are they going to air that is compelling ? At least Satellite Radio, which is slowly failing, or stagnant at best, isn't censored by the FCC.

 

[EggsOverEasy87]

here is my opinion on HD Radio.

HD Radio is still a pretty new technology. It'll take awhile for consumers to start using HD.

FM Radio didn't start off with a bang. It took years for FM to develop because there was already AM radio. Since there was AM radio, consumers couldn't find a need for FM Radio. You look at FM Radio now, almost everyone listens to it.

The same thing happened with HDTV. It took awhile for people to start using it, but now you find more and more Americans that own an HDTV.

In a way, the same thing happened with DVD Players. When the technology was first introduced, consumers didn't jump into it.

perhaps the same thing is happening with HD Radio. I think slowly but surely it'll become more popular when cars start including HD and when tuners go down in price. HD isn't very old. Stations need time to experiment with it to become more familiar with it.

I have a receiver with a built in HD Tuner and I must say I really enjoy HD radio. I am rather disappointed in AM Radio, however, but I think FM sounds great! It is quite useless out here in Lubbock, since KOHM is the only HD station out here, but when I am in Dallas, I usually listen to Energy 93 (KDBN-HD2) and Vibe 99.5 (KPLX-HD2). Energy plays all 90s and Vibe is Top 40, but each station is commercial free (as of now, could change one of these days).

soooo...as of now, HD Radio isn't popular...yet stations in major cities are upgrading anyway. im probably the only person within a 300 mile radius (because there are hardly any HD stations around here) that has an HD Tuner in my car but maybe in a few years, things will start to change.

Basically, HD needs more time to develop before consumers start using it. Technology like this for the most part will NEVER start off with a bang. It always takes awhile.

Thats my opinion on it.