"HD Radio" meets the Infomercial

[hipporadio]

“The Alliance” is headed to cable TV’s ‘round-the-clock infomercial channel—QVC next week to shill with the dreaded-addition of the video component. Three [undisclosed] “HD” radios will tempt the hoard of female sofa-taters viewing from their “manufactured housing” in the Outback of Americana beginning next week [9/24]. Just imagine ALL those “HD” radios running up the “sale counter” between the Miracle 47-in-one kitchen blender and cubic zirconium-studded bracelets! I can’t wait for the testimonial calls: “Hi, I’m PocketRadio from Maryland... Just listen to my AWESOME new “HD” radio ...HISSSSS—BUZZZZZ—HISSSSSSSS ... "Gosh Wilber... Grab my QVC VISA card... I've GOTTA get me one of them!"

Will they FINALLY manage to move out all those dusty unsold BA “HD” Receptors, Accurians, and Radio-Sloppies? Quick, Clear Channel... Clear out those prize closets while you still can!

 

[vsa]

“The Alliance” is headed to cable TV’s ‘round-the-clock infomercial channel—QVC next week to shill with the dreaded-addition of the video component. Three [undisclosed] “HD” radios will tempt the hoard of female sofa-taters viewing from their “manufactured housing” in the Outback of Americana beginning next week [9/24]. Just imagine ALL those “HD” radios running up the “sale counter” between the miracle 47-in-one kitchen blender and cubic zirconium-studded bracelets! I can’t wait for the testimonial calls: “Hi, I’m PocketRadio from Maryland... Just listen to my AWESOME new “HD” radio ...HISSSSS—BUZZZZZ—HISSSSSSSS ... Gosh Wilber... Grab my QVC VISA card... I've GOTTA get me one of them!

Will they FINALLY manage to move out all those dusty unsold BA “HD” Receptors, Accurians, and Radio-Sloppies? Quick, Clear Channel... Clear out those prize closets while you still can!

John Gorman skewers the HD Digital Radio Alliance in his latest blog titled "Half Dead Radio."

http://gormanmediablog.blogspot.com/2007/09/halif-dead-radio.html

Here's a snippet from Gorman: "QVC. That’s where you go when you get rejected by HSN.
QVC = sloppy seconds...What’s the QVC business plan? Dazzle the rubes to separate them from their cash. And how about that? It’s identical to the HD Radio Alliance’s!"

 

[SUPERCASTER]

And they come in hiss and hertz models. ;D

 

[hipporadio]

And they come in hiss and hertz models.

...Don’t let it be said that those “angry and bitter” anti-IBOC posters don’t have a cagey sense-of-humor!

“Inquiring minds” are already-wondering HOW those radios are going to be demoed in the thick-walled concrete West Chester studios of QVC where NO “HD” signal penetration is possible... Do I smell another “rat” here? ...NOPE – just the usual “HD Alliance” dipping into their typical bag-O-tricks.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

“Inquiring minds” are already-wondering HOW those radios are going to be demoed in the thick-walled concrete West Chester studios of QVC where NO “HD” signal penetration is possible... Do I smell another “rat” here? ...NOPE – just the usual “HD Alliance” dipping into their typical bag-O-tricks.

Simple - set up a low power radio station inside the studios. What I am wondering is how HD radio is supposed to sound different through the 3 inch speakers and 1 to 2% harmonic distortion audio chain in most TVs.

 

[clouseau]

http://gormanmediablog.blogspot.com/2007/09/halif-dead-radio.html

Here's a snippet from Gorman: "QVC. That’s where you go when you get rejected by HSN.
QVC = sloppy seconds...

Wow, QVC has almost DOUBLE the sales of HSN, in a subsequent year, according to both their websites, but QVC is "Sloppy Seconds"?

Great Take, Gorman.

According to the HSN website they reach a total of 89 million homes. QVC 87 million. OF course HSN DOES broker LPTV extensively while I do not believe QVC does at all. Looks like those 2 million "NON cable or satellite" viewers are really paying off. Only another $2 billion to catch up to QVC.

What’s the QVC business plan? Dazzle the rubes to separate them from their cash.

Yeah, that must be it. $6 1/2 BILLION in sales annually and they're just con artists. I guess there'sa no repeat business in a paultry $6.5 Mil.

QVC="Sloppy Seconds"? What an idiot.

I have often wondered what is the allure of these consultant types to clients. I beleve it is that they basically "Tell you what you THINK you want to hear".

Several years ago when I was at a mixed cluster, we had one of these "High Profile" guys come in and "Fix" a station in the group. (One I had no responsibility for I might add).
He felt what we REALLY needed was a variant of Hot AC which would appeal to women 18-49. Something that both a Mom and her daughter would be happy listening to.

Sales loved the idea. GM loved the idea. Rookie PD was VERY skeptical, but knew better than to argue. Yours truly and one lone sales guy (Who I work with today) went to GM and contended "If WE brought this idea to you, you'd throw me out of your office."

Needless to say, the format was implemented, Tanked majorly and the consultant, as well as the poor rookie PD, were axed. I DID get an email 3 weeks after the consultant "departed" extolling the virtues of their latest Christian Non Comm success, though. I get e-mail pitches from these guys weekly to this day. the "Mother-Daughter Reunion" has achieved legendary status in thelocal "Bad Idea" department. How does this happen?

Simple. CONSULTANTS ARE MARKETERS. Selling THEMSELVES to you for a hefty fee. They don't necessarily KNOW anything you don't.

"QVC - Where you go when you can't get on HSN." What an Idiot. Then again, maybe he posts his free blog from his cable and sattelite-less trailer and thinks no one SEES QVC. Who knows?

Clouseau

 

[Mike Walker]

I'm not sure if QVC's audio is even stereo. I've been kind of shocked lately to hear stereo "bumpers" on MSNBC during "Morning Joe" (and others). But I suppose it's no dumber to "demo" HD radio on a mono tv channel than it is to "demo" widescreen HDTVs on a standard def, 4:3 channel like QVC, Shop NBC, or HSN...and they sell them by the truckload! I'd never buy one that way. But I HAVE purchased from QVC...I bought one of the cheap-ass Aiptek solid state camcorders when they offered the first VGA (640 x 480) model. About 130 bucks (they're cheaper now). No optical zoom, but the quality if video is far better than my old VHS camcorder, which cost many times more (when new).

Why buy from a place like QVC? Simple. Many of us live in rural areas where things like solid-state camcorders, HDTVs, and HD Radios are as rare as hen's teeth when they first come out. Name-brand PCs are hard to come by in communities too small for a Wal-Mart (we have one, thank you. Gosh we're modern!) You can't go to the kiosk at the mall, when there's no mall! These channels serve an important need. Urbanites forget that much of our country is anything but urban! And no, I've never lived in either a trailer, or a trailer park! We even have indoor plumbing! And HD Radio (on FM) means the kind of noise-free, clear, STEREO reception eighty miles out that urban and suburban dwellers take for granted. To maximize reception, you need an external antenna and rotor...but you've gotta' have one of those for tv, anyway!

 

[davideduardo]

“The Alliance” is headed to cable TV’s ‘round-the-clock infomercial channel—QVC next week to shill with the dreaded-addition of the video component.

The HD Alliance sells NOTHING. They are not part of iBiquity and represent some of the major broadcasters who have HD stations running. The HD Alliance, specifically, promotes (mostly on air with spots they create) the HD "advantage" with those horribly dumb "station between the stations" ads and such. They have done a miserable job in selling what HD is to their own listeners.

 

[clone]

We even have indoor plumbing! And HD Radio (on FM) means the kind of noise-free, clear, STEREO reception eighty miles out that urban and suburban dwellers take for granted. To maximize reception, you need an external antenna and rotor...but you've gotta' have one of those for tv, anyway!

Eighty miles. Wow. I mean, just, wow! I have trouble locking onto an HD signal from a full-power Chicago Class B at more than thirty-five miles. With a rotor. In the car, forget it after about twenty miles out of the loop. And I'm being liberal in those estimates. Of course, you can see the HD blinky-blinky all day long out to about sixty miles. And you get the old "in-and-out" up to about forty, but nothing on par with the reliability most listeners are accustomed to. But I guess if you bought an HD unit, that's not the only "in-and-out" you got.

And no, I've never lived in either a trailer, or a trailer park!

Or owned an HD radio, obviously. I really wish all the HD cheerleaders would go buy HD radios for their families and friends, then come back a week later and get some listener feedback. Especially ones who live more than twenty miles or so from the stick.

 

[davideduardo]

Or owned an HD radio, obviously. I really wish all the HD cheerleaders would go buy HD radios for their families and friends, then come back a week later and get some listener feedback. Especially ones who live more than twenty miles or so from the stick.

I have a variety of HD receivers, and the first generation ones like the Receptor, suck. Bad designs, simply said.

But the third generation one I have in my car is much better. Driving from Phoenix to California, I had KFYI 550 in full HD until the rocky area before Quartzite, about 85 miles from the transmitter and not bad for 5 kw. In LA, I can carry KNX's HD without dropout to about the 3 to 4 mv/m contour, while the analog signal gets really noisy around the 6 or 7 mv/m contour.... a difference of about 10 to 12 miles in favor of the HD signal. On FM, where the usable signal is around 64 mv/m in LA, and multipath is bad in many areas, I get HD as far as I get a usable analog signal... parity at least.

If the 4th generation receivers, coming next year with the Samsung chip among others are also an improvement of this magnitude, the reception should get even better.

 

[Savage]

Read the linked report: Gorman wasn't saying QVC's business plan wasn't successful. He was just characterizing the typical QVC customer, with the possible exception of Mike Walker. And he was using that profile to lampoon how HD is "marketed." Even David Gleason appears to agree with the overall lameness of the approach.

With no disrespect intended to my friend The Inspector, the point here isn't whether radio consultants as a group (I once described them as guys who use your watch to tell you what time it is, and then walk away with it) are a bunch of rug merchants but whether the QVC pitch is just the latest laughably, lamentably futile thrust at marketing a product - HD radio, and interference-plagued HD-AM in particular - for which is there is little need and zero consumer interest.

First generation, fourth generation, sixteenth generation - it doesn't matter. Receivers should have worked better the first time out. Reviews of the existing iterations of HD radios are brutally dismissive. You can't beta-test a consumer device in the marketplace, asking consumers to pay for the privilege, and then hope to lure them back for a subsequent fleecing. Radio Shack reports that HD radio return rates are one of the highest they've seen.

I predict that HD Radio will become a B-school textbook example of a consumer item so botched in concept and execution it will make Ford's Edsel look like success.

 

[Mike Walker]

You predict that, and yet new HD stations continue to hit the air (WFDD in Winston Salem had their HD on today, despite claiming that it won't begin until "early October" at their website), and again this week there were annuncements of new radios. In other words, HD is s l o w l y progressing. Is the marketing lame? You betcha'! But perhaps it's proceeding at the proper pace, since many stations aren't "ready for primetime" yet anyway. FM took DECADES to reach parity with AM, and many, MANY years before anyone thought of an FM station as anything more than a tax writeoff. HDTV ain't setting the world on fire, after a DECADE! These things take time.

 

[hipporadio]

What’s the QVC business plan? Dazzle the rubes to separate them from their cash.

Yeah, that must be it. $6 1/2 BILLION in sales annually and they're just con artists...

I have often wondered what is the allure of these consultant types to clients... they basically "Tell you what you THINK you want to hear"... we had one of these "High Profile" guys come in and "Fix" a station in the group. He felt what we REALLY needed was a variant of Hot AC which would appeal to women 18-49. Something that both a Mom and her daughter would be happy listening to...

CONSULTANTS ARE MARKETERS. Selling THEMSELVES to you for a hefty fee. They don't necessarily KNOW anything you don't... "QVC - Where you go when you can't get on HSN." What an Idiot... maybe he posts his free blog from his cable and sattelite-less trailer and thinks no one SEES QVC.

Yet another example of how the “HD” Lemmings wing their way thru FantasyLand – ATTACK the professional character and credentials of one John Gorman who ONLY managed to assemble what many consider to be one of the finest AOR stations to perennially-modulate this medium [WMMS Cleveland]. Jerry Del Colliano is another example of one who irritated the corporate/”HD” radio apologists when he mated FACTUAL COMMON SENSE with his computer keyboard... This founder and former publisher of Inside Radio broke-ranks – only to be bashed by the shills of “HD Radio”. Leave it to the contemporary radio industry to redefine a person earning Emeritus status as a “has-been” when that soul fails to march with the minions!

Mr. Inspector, this IS NOT about some mother-daughter Carpenters-meets-Kelly Clarkson format on AC radio – it’s about defective/destructive broadcast technology that is miserably-failing any reasonable expectation within the traditional retail channels – a [so-called] marketing effort given to the desperation of enlisting an entity universally-indentified by its “basal-level huckster” status. FACT: Regardless of revenue, the QVC business model and target customer is well-known and reasonably-stereotyped. Pity an emerging and allegedly-“hip” technology that is reduced to sharing space with costume jewelry, “miracle” health and beauty aids, and quickly-conjured “exclusive” and so-called “designer” apparel lines.

I make my living in an industry whose mission is to bring buyer and seller together, and that process always involves the careful determination of the APPROPRIATE customer-level sales representative. When an alleged “cutting-edge” audio-electronics item with a minimum $100 cost of admission [for its dual 3-inch speakers and mediocre performance—somehow-justified by its “HD” buzz-word] FAILS cautious scrutiny by BOTH enthusiast-oriented specialty AND mass-market retailers; and ends up as a “segment” on a perpetual cable-TV infomercial – something is VERY telling about the desirability of said product in the first place!

 

[Mike Walker]

Hipporadio, with due respect, there is no crime in disagreeing with you. And those of us who believe in the new technology, are no less "professional", or dedicated than you. No less sincere. No less deserving of RESPECT. Want respect? Be respectful! Don't assume those with whom you disagree are less experienced, professional, or deserving of RESPECT! Remember a simple fact. HD Radio is the law of the land, as much of a technical standard as analog AM or FM. It's not going away. Wishing doesn't make it happen. And being disrespectful or insulting doesn't either.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

But the third generation one I have in my car is much better. Driving from Phoenix to California, I had KFYI 550 in full HD until the rocky area before Quartzite, about 85 miles from the transmitter and not bad for 5 kw. In LA, I can carry KNX's HD without dropout to about the 3 to 4 mv/m contour, while the analog signal gets really noisy around the 6 or 7 mv/m contour.... a difference of about 10 to 12 miles in favor of the HD signal. On FM, where the usable signal is around 64 mv/m in LA, and multipath is bad in many areas, I get HD as far as I get a usable analog signal... parity at least.

There is nothing magic in all this. Obviously, because HD relies on sidebands transmitted on adjacent frequencies, as long as those frequencies are clear and interference free, it is theoretically possible to get a decode.

I suspect the third generation and above are getting smart and actually use three receivers - not just one - for the primary analog signal and each sideband. Why not? Silicon is cheap and getting cheaper, just throw more stuff on it. Power consumption will go up, but if you scale the chip geometry down you can mitigate that to a degree.

Where this scheme of three receivers would not work is in tightly packed areas where first adjacents are close and begin to jam one or the other sidebands. Or there is enough interference to cover the sideband. But as I have noted - the sideband pairs are VERY robust and go hundreds of miles in the daytime, long after the analog is not receivable. So - my question is - have you had instances where the digital decodes when no analog is audible? You would have to get very far from the station - remote parts of California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, NM, etc. When and if KFI is back to full power it would be an ideal candidate for the test.

How has your nighttime AM decode been when groundwave and skywave are both present? We got a report on the board that it doesn't work well in Chicago ---

 

[Len14043]

I received WLWs HD signal out to the 0.5 mv/m contour around Medina, Ohio which is about 200 miles from the tower. However, the conditions were ideal. I was parked in a rest area with the engine turned off and away from power lines and other cars/trucks and there were no thunderstorms in the area. Beyond that, the HD light bkinked but didn't lock. Conversly, WLWs HD signal failed in downtown Cincinnati, about 30 miles from the tower during a severe thunderstorm (admitedly, the analog signal was nearly unlistenable too)! In a nutshell, AM HD works well under ideal conditions, but degrades rapidly as natural or manmade interference corrupts the digital sidebands. As an aside, it is evident that 500 watts of digital power performs well and digital broadcasting appears to be superior to analog with all things being equal. I am not an engineer, but am curious if the AM digital signal can be programmed to be more resistant to interference? If so, there may be hope for nighttime AM hydrid IBOC.

 

[Savage]

I must be missing something here. Mike, can you cite where the Hippoman suggests that someone who disagrees with him has committed a "crime," or has stated that dissenters from his viewpoint are "less experienced, professional, or deserving of respect?" Or where he has "insulted" another poster? Re-reading this thread, it appears he's only criticized the HD system - and, I might add, with a laugh-out-loud-funny account of the QVC HD adventure. (Congrats, Hippo! Thanks for lightening up the earnestness.)

As long as the subject is "respect" I think many of the HD-promoting posters on the HD board would have a little different perspective if they, like Hippo and yours truly, had spent two or three or twenty years meeting a payroll every week, paying their bills, and being good broadcasters and fellow citizens, while competing - and successfully - with the likes of Clear Channel and other big groups. Kindly refrain from lecturing those of us who really walk the walk as business operators and entrepreneurs in radio. It's one thing to collect a paycheck from radio; it's another to have your butt on the line while "visionaries" steal your business by summarily implementing a badly-flawed system conceived in self-interest by industry and government elites.

Reasonable minds can differ about the merits of HD-FM. My personal view is that the system doesn't offer a big enough benefit to excite consumers, and the addition of subchannels holds the potential for a lot of mischief if it isn't given plenty of forethought - which appears not to have been done. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise if you can. (As one example I hardly think the addition of a noncom-band FM is a harbinger of sweeping conversion to HD as a business trend.)

But the interference inherent in HD-AM is as indefensible as it is self-defeating for even the biggest AM "heritage" stations. You can reduce the crap on adjacent channels in the passband of other stations to -28 dBc, but interference is interference. It's still there, and it's much more obnoxious than the earnestly attempted reassurances of IBOC promoters care to admit. The noise is harmonic-rich "pink" noise which is steady-state and far more disruptive than typical co- or adjacent-channel audio chatter and murmur. Delivered via skywave, it's massively destructive. WYSL has a very high NIF of 13.687, through which adjacent channel IBOC noise barrels like an out-of-control semi rig. Last night adjacent-channel noise was invading a measured WYSL 18 mv/m signal, 0.9 miles from the site. Now we don't even cover our community of license, 7 miles away. So much for the assurances that IBOC won't hurt anyone.

If it is indeed true that AM's tree needs pruning, the argument would be a lot more persuasive if it wasn't being advanced by the self-interested, short-sighted types who would reap an immediate benefit. In any case the IBOC promoters shouldn't be the ones wielding the pruning saw.

 

[Mike Walker]

Savage again (and perhaps I should include this each time I write), I'm NOT speaking of AM HD when I write of my positive experiences. There are ZERO AM HD STATIONS IN MY AREA! NADA! So I must yield to others with experince in this area. But to when someone uses terms like "lemmings", talks about "miserable performance", and when people like Savage assume that "people who are Pro HD" haven't had as much experience in radio, or met a payroll. Quit assuming that anyone who disagrees is less capable, less knowledgable, less experienced than you. They simply have a different perspective, based upon their own experiences and priorities. I live in a VERY rural area, and before HD, even with exotic antennas and tuners, was unable to get very much in the way of clean, STEREO FM reception. Now with a MERE 100 dollar radio I get MANY more programming choices (for free), far better sound quality (from stations 50-100 miles away),

AND IN NOISE-FREE STEREO! THESE ARE REAL, not imagined advantages that people in urban areas, where signals are plentiful and strong shouldn't dismiss.

So let's be reasonable here. Is HD succeeding beyond my wildest expectations? Nope. I'll concede that. But is the market contracting? Are their fewer choices? Are their fewer stations? NO! And YOU MUST CONCEDE THAT! More radios are available now from more outlets than a month, or even a week ago. More stations are coming on the air, and offering more programming sources. And I'm not talking about the Clear Channels and other mega-companies. Perhaps that also is where these conversations degrade into name-calling. MY reference is PUBLIC RADIO, which offers programming that doesn't insult the intelligence of a well read ADULT, and strives to offer great programming, great variety (enhanced with multicast options), and GREAT AUDIO QUALITY! Is HD offering less? Nope. Not in my area (where a new HD station came on the air YESTERDAY!) Nor, I suspect in yours.

I'll concede that AM HD may well be as bad as some here say (again, there are none in my area, so I can't offer an informed opinion...any more than people here who have never tried an HD radio at their home can offer an informed opinion about how it would perform!) But you must concede, if you're reasonable, that FM HD works rather well in many circumstances...particularly those like mine, with an outdoor antenna and rotor, in a stationary position (I don't drive...legally blind...so I really don't care that much about performance in a car). Frankly I don't give a damn how many others may or may not be listening to HD in my area. I AM! And I'm enjoying it quite a lot!

 

[Len14043]

(I don't drive...legally blind...so I really don't care that much about performance in a car). Frankly I don't give a damn how many others may or may not be listening to HD in my area. I AM! And I'm enjoying it quite a lot!

My car radio can receive some out-of-market FM HD stations, but the radio in my house can only receive the local stations. However, I am using the supplied whip antenna, while you are using a yagi. FWIW, I am not a booster of AM IBOC. I am merely communicating my observations to the good posters of this board. While I enjoy the challenge of getting a "lock" on a distant station, I concede that AM IBOC is frought with problems.

 

[hipporadio]

Mike... Your threshold for determining “disrespect” is rather interesting, and appears to be completely flexible when a poster shares YOUR viewpoint – DESPITE [his] corresponding disrespect of one who is long-established and accomplished in this industry – but happens to become an irritating critic of “HD Radio” [i.e. Misters Gorman and Del Colliano]. The former was directly-maligned in the prior post:

What an Idiot... maybe he posts his free blog from his cable and sattelite-less trailer and thinks no one SEES QVC.

...And my response was to call attention to the obvious [as many others here have also]: The fleeting fortunes and increasingly-dismal outlook of “HD Radio” seem to repeatedly bring out desperate and often-slanderous rambles from those “kicking sand” in IBOC’s futile defense AT OTHERS who have well-earned their prior respect and position – yet passionately-differ with the current flavor of “HD Radio”.

Since when is it “disrespectful” to REQUEST RESPECT for the likes of Mr. Gorman who did not initiate this topic, did not link himself in this thread, and isn’t even here to defend his position – or dispel the summation that “he posts his FREE blog from HIS trailer [lacking cable or sat-delivered television]”?

YOUR positions here are delivered with every-bit the passion as those you incredulously-attack [i.e. myself]. MY own “sharp-shooting” [here] is generally-limited to but ONE very-notorious participant who is all over this board [AND the net] with the very presentation you have just chosen [again] to high-mindedly criticize.

My comments regarding QVC are withstanding, and need no explanation or justification to you. While they are speculative and depended on stereotype; they are WIDELY-shared within the Marketing profession and [as I noted in my prior thread], “are reasonably-stereotyped”.

The cardinal rule in debate couldn’t be simpler: Attack the MESSAGE creatively and you WIN – attack the MESSAGER and you’re OFF THE TEAM. Sidebar:The most-telling sign of a defeated point-of-view is when one siezes upon personal attack due to a lackluster message – essentially defeating himself by choosing to malign A PERSON instead of mitigating a person’s POINT-OF-VIEW. For five years, I debated nearly-undefeated; and have coached debate at college-level for five more. What appears to be your frustration and function is when YOUR message is successfully-critiqued PROFESSIONALLY – your disposition leaves you little recourse than to attack PERSONALLY. Most interesting, is that NOWHERE within this thread have I even commented on or directly-linked to comments YOU have made... They were directed at The Good Inspector, whom I have given due credit and conceded well-presented points to on several occasions.

Mike, The morale of the story here is... If you can’t “hang” in a decent debate – don’t go pulling the tail of another participant! BTW, “Lemming” = “follower”, and “HD” performance IS “miserable” [although I can’t recall my use of that term in this altercation in any manner other than to describe its acceptance in the marketplace] ???

Mr. Savage: I appreciate your kind and eloquent “defense”... As the Bartles & Jaymes wine-cooler farmer once said: “Thank-you for your support.”