'HD' Radio - That Didn't Last Long

[landtuna]

OK, I was somewhat excited when I bought my new car. It has HD radio and I was anxious to get some first-hand experience. I should not have held my breath.

I am disappointed in both content and signal quality and will probably never use the HD feature again.

As I drive around my virtually flat metro area I am almost constantly dropping in and out of HD. The radio doesn't revert to normal FM, it just blanks out. This morning I was driving in clear line of sight to the towers (about 10 miles distant) and getting a lot of hash in the background. Buildings just a few stories tall seem to knock out the signal while waiting at stop lights and the direction the car is pointed also seems to make a difference. I did not both trying the AM side as there is nothing in the way of content I would ever listen to there.

The car is a 2012 Hyundai Genesis with a Lexicon audio system.

Now, for content. The HD side of KOOL-FM has been advertised as "70's hits" and as that is my favorite decade for music I zipped over there first. I don't know what it was but it wasn't 70's ever played in this country. Sounded more like early 50's R&B.

Then I remembered that KEZ, while playing Christmas music on its main signal had "soft rock" going the other day on HD. Nada. Silence. Nothing. Dead as a doornail. I dunno if there was a technical issue or the engineer was over at Filiberto's eating lunch but nothing was coming out.

Alas and alack, I tried KSLX which advertises its signal as HD. Nope. A mess. Totally static filled. Sounded like an AM with gastro-intestinal distress.

That's it. I gave up. I've become the HD Nazi. No soup for you!

Good thing the Lexicon has a 6-disk CD/DVD player.

 

[Tom Wells]

I'll just bet that Hyundai has some kind of "pretend" antenna.

Our 2003 Hyundai had a pretend antenna, and listening to the radio was an exercise in futility until I installed a
real whip antenna. Now, I don't think we ever hear noise or dropouts in the local range.

We had all the droputs and hash you describe, only 7 miles from the antennas in downtown Chicago.

Make sure to let Hyundai know how dis-satisfied you are with the ANTENNA, don't complain to them about
the radio which might actually be pretty good.

I wouldn't bother, as they wouldn't care what anyone thinks about a vehicle 10 years old.

But if you just bought this car, they should be interested in your feedback.

 

[Darth_vader]

Is it one of those little "stubby" antennae just above the rear windshield?

If it is, it's no wonder you're having trouble. I still can't figure out how anyone could even consider those things adequate for analogue reception, let alone data. Even the ancient wires-in-the-windshield dipole I had in the Bronco worked better than some of these things they have now.

If you can, try putting a real aerial (i.e. a whip) on the car and wire it into the radio instead.

 

[landtuna]

Is it one of those little "stubby" antennae just above the rear windshield?

If it is, it's no wonder you're having trouble. I still can't figure out how anyone could even consider those things adequate for analogue reception, let alone data. Even the ancient wires-in-the-windshield dipole I had in the Bronco worked better than some of these things they have now.

If you can, try putting a real aerial (i.e. a whip) on the car and wire it into the radio instead.

This link illustrates the antenna setup in the Genesis. There is a shark fin above the rear window and some sort of other antenna on both the left and right sides aft of the rear doors. I cannot determine what these are but they don't look like standard antennas.

The reception in the normal FM is great - no problems at all, therefore I don't think the antennas are the problem.

If I were pleased with the HD content (or the fact that stations appear not to be on-air at all) I would raise the issue but frankly even if HD reception was perfect I wouldn't listen to the crap that's being broadcast anyway.

 

[Chuck]

I don't know about the Hyundai, but both my Chevy Tahoe and Buick Lacrosse have the little "shark fin" antennas, and both have very good range on analog signals. Neither car has HD, so I can't comment further, other than to say it works OK on analog.

 

[jhardis]

I just got a new car, and here is what the RF engineers had to deal with:

AM Radio
FM Radio
XM Radio (2332.5 MHz to 2345 MHz)
GPS receiver (1575.42 MHz)
Built-in cellular telematics (for OnStar), with voice and data send/receive capability in the 800 MHz and the 1900 MHz bands
Universal garage door transmitter at 310 MHz, 315 MHz, and 390 MHz
Bluetooth (for smart phone and music player integration) (2400 MHz to 2480 MHz)
RFID (keyless entry and ignition)
Keyless entry key fob (315 MHz receiver)

You want antennas? I got antennas!

(HDR not available on this model.)

 

[tomservo]

I hate to say it landtuna but it sounds like your experience wasn't out of the norm for HD. I'd think Phoenix would be a good market for it, but guess not. Sucks to hear that.

 

[K6JHU]

Got to be the antenna. Last time I drove the truck to Phoenix (with an external 30" whip) HD reception was excellent once I got out of the mountains. Can't say the same for the HD programming though.

 

[kenglish]

Crap! I just did a search for photos of your 2012 Hyundai Genesis, and I'm already getting spammed with car ads in my e-mail. Hasn't been three minutes.

 

[Tom Wells]

Wheew! A sharkfin. No wonder radio works poorly. Good 'ol mediumwave AM needs at LEAST a 31 inch whip, and
FM would like the 31 inch whip exactly.

If you're in Phoenix, how well does KAZG 1440 Scottsdale come in? Pow-pow power oldies. How do they sound?
What about WBAP 820 Dallas, or KFI 640 Los Angeles?

Perhaps someone in the Phoenix market could suggest sub-dx FM channels to try.

I almost Googled your vehicle for pictures, but I don't need any more spam.

Don't blame the radio when it's deaf by antenna design.
As I noted, our Hyundai has no HD dropouts or analog fuzzies in local market reception since the installation of an antenna that
respects the physical wavelength of what we're trying to tune in.

I'll bet that sharkfin does well with satellite.

 

[landtuna]

Crap! I just did a search for photos of your 2012 Hyundai Genesis, and I'm already getting spammed with car ads in my e-mail. Hasn't been three minutes.

I don't understand that. I did not need to assign an email address to access those schematics nor have I received any spam.

 

[audioguy]

If you are using gmail, you will see that. Google reads the cookies in your browser and serves you ads in gmail that relate to sites you visit.

 

[Tom Wells]

Delete cookies frequently!

 

[landtuna]

Wheew! A sharkfin. No wonder radio works poorly. Good 'ol mediumwave AM needs at LEAST a 31 inch whip, and FM would like the 31 inch whip exactly.

The car has three 'radio' antennas - one on each side abreast of the sharkfin. As far as I can tell there are no wires-in-glass nor does it have an external whip.

If you're in Phoenix, how well does KAZG 1440 Scottsdale come in? Pow-pow power oldies. How do they sound? What about WBAP 820 Dallas, or KFI 640 Los Angeles?

My experience was driving around the east side of the Phoenix metro area. I actually live in Tempe which is in the SE part of the metro. The Goldmine is receivable in the car when up in the Snottsdale area but the signal is scratchy. I cannot receive it at all from home or car at my home. My son's truck, which does have a whip, can get it down here but the signal isn't really clean. I can hear KFI somewhat weakly but not WBAP.

Don't blame the radio when it's deaf by antenna design. As I noted, our Hyundai has no HD dropouts or analog fuzzies in local market reception since the installation of an antenna that respects the physical wavelength of what we're trying to tune in.

I consider the antenna system part of the radio and refer to all of it as 'radio' because I am personally unable to isolate the particular problem area. I think your criticism of the antenna may have merit but I'm not willing to drill holes in the car to test the theory. If the content of HD isn't there I won't listen to it anyway. That is already the problem with AM and XM so, like my other cars, an analog FM is all I need and when that isn't satisfying I can switch to my flash stick or audio-DVD. As I've said before, signal quality when HD is working is not perceptible to my ears to be any better quality than analog FM so without desirable content there is no point in having it.

I'll bet that sharkfin does well with satellite.

XM reception is fine but I haven't found content yet, nor do I spend enough time in the car, that compels me to listen. My freebie subscription will expire on the Genesis just as it has with previous vehicles.

 

[landtuna]

If you are using gmail, you will see that. Google reads the cookies in your browser and serves you ads in gmail that relate to sites you visit.

Well that's the first problem.....don't use gmail. I have an account but don't use it because I don't like the format. Additionally, my browser is Firefox which does an excellent job of filtering out pop-ups and spam.

 

[landtuna]

Delete cookies frequently!

If you are using Firefox and do not need to save cookies (to prevent having to enter logons and passwords for frequently visited sites) just select "private browsing" from the Tools menu and no cookies will be saved.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

That is AWFUL. What I am reading here with listeners to the system in cars pretty much sums up my suspicions - the iBiquity system is too fragile - not robust enough for prime time.

My experience in Houston is pretty good. Full class C stations on 2000 foot towers, easily 60 mile range, probably a lot more. My main aggravations with the system are HD-2 dropouts. In every single case where I listen to an HD-2, the regular analog format / HD-1 is of absolutely no interest to me, or even offensive. So an HD dropout is very apparent because the audio goes blank. If the dropout is extended, the radio is programmed to go into analog mode - and I get a completely different format which I am not interested in.

The sensitivities of the system - besides that glaring problem - have to do with interference. One person posts HD doesn't work in hilly / mountainous areas, another has problems with tightly packed dial and first adjacents. That leads the industry to want to (literally) out shout their competition by raising sideband power - a dubious strategy that might improve the situation marginally for a few listeners, but adds to self-interference on the stations audio to the 99.9% of the audience that doesn't have HD. I also see in this thread that HD is strongly limited by vehicle antennas.

There are interesting parallels to recent history, here.

AM stereo was killed, in part, by the dumbing down of the band to program the blather of talk and now sports stations. You don't need stereo for that garbage. FM had already started to take over as the music delivery system. Likewise - the music delivery system has shifted to iPods, replacing FM radio. And the talk garbage is dutifully invading the FM band as music listeners move on. HD may well have been too little, too late just as AM stereo was 30 years ago.

 

[nfladxer]

So many questionable decisions have been made, on the technical, as well as the regulatory, and programming sides of radio over the past 30 years, or so, it almost appears that the powers that be have been "chasing" listeners away from the medium! Hmmm?

 

[radiophiler]

Got HD radio in a 2012 Subaru. Sharkfin antenna above rear window.

As for content, I only listen to the FM-HD simulcast of Philadelphia's KYW-AM newsradio.

As for reception: Most of the time, within a certain radius, it's good. However, once in a while, in an area where I normally receive HD reception just fine, it drops out. And it's never for just two or three seconds. It lasts for a while. Forced to switch over to AM if I want to continue listening to KYW. HD-FM reception also seems to be worse in the rain for me.

My experience is not as bad as some reports. I have KYW's HD-FM simulcast on for at least a short while twice each weekday on the way to and home from work.

But, that's just experience with one signal. I have no interest in listening to other HD-2,3 FM content. Rather listen to XM for music.

 

[Chuck]

Shark fin or not, I don't know many new car owners who are going drill a hole in their brand new car to install an old fashioned looking whip antenna. People on this board might, but let's face it, nobody here is representative of the general public and their attitude towards radio.