Once again, proponents of an alt rock station are shut down for more old music in this town. Isn't there already enough with KZEP, MAGIC, JACK, KONO, and now this? Why is it that SA continues to not have or has never had an Alt Rock station? And no KISS is not an alternative rock station (see 101X and K-EDGE in Dallas to name a few). What makes our demos so different from other major towns that we can't have one? Every "big city" has one just about, even mid size ones like Austin but not San Antonio. We keep getting the run around with old school, classic stations. We just basically have KISS and they are stuck in the 90's for the most part. When will someone ever get it?
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fredcantu said:
Well, not anymore at least. A few people I had a conversation about radio with used to have a favorite radio station, and like everything else, the station's music or format changed altogether making it a less appealing choice. The advent of MP3s, Pandora, and Youtube (music videos on demand) also doesn't help radio.
Come on Cox! Classic Rock? Everyone else is right, why does San Antonio not have an alternative rock, Rhythmic AC or Dance Top 40 station? Why more of this crap? I guess 106.7 will stay off my radio when I drive in town. 
9
93-3TheSurge
Guest
davi78239 said:
Great post Davi.
There is no one here who can say that X106-7 would do better than a rock alternative station.
Why doesn't Cox understand that?!
According to www.yes.com, here's what X106.7 played in the 10pm hour Monday evening...
George Thorogood--Move It On Over
Phil Collins--In The Air Tonight
The Who--Won't Get Fooled Again
Kings of Leon--Use Somebody
Stevie Ray Vaughn--Superstition
Green Day--Good Riddance/Time of Your Life
Journey--Don't Stop Believing
Talking Heads--And She Was
Rolling Stones--Emotional Rescue
REM--Shiny Happy People
Aerosmith--Love in An Elevator
Other than Kings of Leon, which I would think would be too new for Classic Rock/Classic Hits, this is a very logical playlist for a station that's challenging the market's Classic Rock leader, KZEP, which is #1 25-54. Nothing too hard-edged. On the pop side, we see Phil Collins, REM, Talking Heads. There's a Stevie Ray Vaughn song, but it's a cover of a Stevie Wonder hit.
Meanwhile KZEP in the same hour is playing AC/DC, White Lion, Winger, Tom Sawyer from Rush, along with the more conventional Classic Rock artists like The Eagles and Tom Petty. So that's the contrast...X106.7 plays Phil Collins and The Talking Heads, KZEP plays AC/DC and Winger.
By the way, I'm amazed at how well older rock artists (like Santana) do on pop-leaning Classic Rock stations. I know of one station like this that came into a market to challenge a harder Classic Rock station with a 30 year history and a good morning show. This new station even plays Cat Stevens, America, The Beatles, Manfred Mann's Earth Band (not just Blinded by the Light but The Mighty Quinn, too.), as well as the expected Elton John, Billy Joel, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Heart, Clapton, Rod Stewart, etc.
The harder Classic Rock station was usually #1, #2 or #3, along with the leading Country station and the AM Talk station. When the pop-leaning Classic Rock station debuted, it went to #1 in two books. And the harder Classic Rock station dropped to #8. Today the harder Classic Rock station isn't so hard anymore. They don't play America or Cat Stevens but you almost never hear Ozzy or AC/DC. Both stations are also battling about who can give the most commercial-free hours. The newer one is commercial-free 9am - noon, the veteran Classic Rock station is commercial-free 8:30 - 9:30am and 4 - 6pm. And the two stations are now very close in the ratings, both in the top 5.
As for why doesn't San Antonio have this format or that, geography plays a part. The San Antonio market is so close to other sizable markets, especially Austin, that it doesn't have a large number of FM stations that you'd find in, say Seattle or Salt Lake City, where they're the only large city for hundreds of miles. Notice DC and Baltimore don't have that many FM signals. Then figure that a quarter of the FMs broadcast in Spanish. And that means San Antonio doesn't have many FM signals to play with or try an untested format on.
And Cox wouldn't likely put an Alternative Rock station on 106.7 if it already owns KISS. It would be hurting its own station.
Gregg
[email protected]
George Thorogood--Move It On Over
Phil Collins--In The Air Tonight
The Who--Won't Get Fooled Again
Kings of Leon--Use Somebody
Stevie Ray Vaughn--Superstition
Green Day--Good Riddance/Time of Your Life
Journey--Don't Stop Believing
Talking Heads--And She Was
Rolling Stones--Emotional Rescue
REM--Shiny Happy People
Aerosmith--Love in An Elevator
Other than Kings of Leon, which I would think would be too new for Classic Rock/Classic Hits, this is a very logical playlist for a station that's challenging the market's Classic Rock leader, KZEP, which is #1 25-54. Nothing too hard-edged. On the pop side, we see Phil Collins, REM, Talking Heads. There's a Stevie Ray Vaughn song, but it's a cover of a Stevie Wonder hit.
Meanwhile KZEP in the same hour is playing AC/DC, White Lion, Winger, Tom Sawyer from Rush, along with the more conventional Classic Rock artists like The Eagles and Tom Petty. So that's the contrast...X106.7 plays Phil Collins and The Talking Heads, KZEP plays AC/DC and Winger.
By the way, I'm amazed at how well older rock artists (like Santana) do on pop-leaning Classic Rock stations. I know of one station like this that came into a market to challenge a harder Classic Rock station with a 30 year history and a good morning show. This new station even plays Cat Stevens, America, The Beatles, Manfred Mann's Earth Band (not just Blinded by the Light but The Mighty Quinn, too.), as well as the expected Elton John, Billy Joel, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Heart, Clapton, Rod Stewart, etc.
The harder Classic Rock station was usually #1, #2 or #3, along with the leading Country station and the AM Talk station. When the pop-leaning Classic Rock station debuted, it went to #1 in two books. And the harder Classic Rock station dropped to #8. Today the harder Classic Rock station isn't so hard anymore. They don't play America or Cat Stevens but you almost never hear Ozzy or AC/DC. Both stations are also battling about who can give the most commercial-free hours. The newer one is commercial-free 9am - noon, the veteran Classic Rock station is commercial-free 8:30 - 9:30am and 4 - 6pm. And the two stations are now very close in the ratings, both in the top 5.
As for why doesn't San Antonio have this format or that, geography plays a part. The San Antonio market is so close to other sizable markets, especially Austin, that it doesn't have a large number of FM stations that you'd find in, say Seattle or Salt Lake City, where they're the only large city for hundreds of miles. Notice DC and Baltimore don't have that many FM signals. Then figure that a quarter of the FMs broadcast in Spanish. And that means San Antonio doesn't have many FM signals to play with or try an untested format on.
And Cox wouldn't likely put an Alternative Rock station on 106.7 if it already owns KISS. It would be hurting its own station.
Gregg
[email protected]
And the people doing the griping are either outside the 35-54 male demographic for this station or asking for things that are so niche-y that they won't deliver a mass audience. It's still BROADcasting, anthonydt06. My favorite satellite radio stations would likely deliver smaller numbers than FM Talk did, so I wouldn't presume to expect they'd ever be programmed on a terrestrial broadcaster.anthonydt06 said:
First, I want to apologize for the snipe remark I made yesterday. That was uncalled for.daypart said:
Second, that station still to me comes across as weak for the 34-54 male demographic. The station has it's good qualities, but there are some iffy song selections tossed in the mix. I can understand David Bowie getting played on Jack FM since the target demographics are broader than the male audience, but not on 106.7. I also understand that broadcasting is supposed to be mass appeal by nature, it's the backbone for any kind of successful business. However, the biggest single complaint I've heard about the station (even from the target demographic) is that this station really doesn't have anything to separate itself from other similar stations in town.
I know with time the general anger about the format flip will die out soon, as it always does, which is why I myself am gonna give the station an objective second chance. I'll post more constructive thoughts later on as soon as I can.
What's the larger meaning of this flip? I have some theories...
People under 35 aren't listening to terrestrial radio in large enough numbers in SA to get another FM devoted to them? (Too many iPods replacing radios.)
People over 35 are a more desirable audience to advertisers? (More disposable income to buy products.)
Local advertisers are turned off by the programming and aren't buying ads on stations that appeal to under 35s? (Too much rap and sexy talk?)
People under 35 aren't listening to terrestrial radio in large enough numbers in SA to get another FM devoted to them? (Too many iPods replacing radios.)
People over 35 are a more desirable audience to advertisers? (More disposable income to buy products.)
Local advertisers are turned off by the programming and aren't buying ads on stations that appeal to under 35s? (Too much rap and sexy talk?)
9
93-3TheSurge
Guest
"The reason why Cox launched another classic rock station instead of launching an alt rock station is because an alt rock station would hurt KISS."
So, by that rationale, why doesn't Clear Channel launch an alternative station right this second? It would hurt KISS, right? It would help KZEP, right? Seems like a win/win situation.
So, by that rationale, why doesn't Clear Channel launch an alternative station right this second? It would hurt KISS, right? It would help KZEP, right? Seems like a win/win situation.
Now that the first day of broadcasting and my initial disappointment that Cox Radio didn't flip 106.7 into another format has passed, I have decided to give an objective analysis of the station. I'm sure everyone on this board knows by now that I'm not in the business – but just an avid listener. I apologize in advance for the long post.
So far, the station itself is not horrible and is quite listenable. In fact, they have done a pretty good job an bringing a variety of songs to the market despite the overlap with KONO, KZEP, Jack, and KISS/977. I have heard a fair combo of the usual overplayed songs, but it seems that Cox Radio is trying to at least somewhat put an effort into playing lesser known, but equally good, songs to distinguish themselves from the other competing radio stations. I also like that repeats have been kept to a minimum among both artists and titles.
Things I wish they'd improve upon include song transitions, choices and tempo. Going from Muse to Van Halen was very awkward. It would be nice if they divided the music into blocks of newer songs and older songs instead of staying on a 100% shuffle. Some of the songs seem too pop to belong on the playlist – like David Bowie, Rob Thomas, Dave Matthews Band, and Michelle Branch (with Santana in “Game of Love”). In addition, the pace of the music is a little too slow for my taste. Maybe it would sound better if they added some heavier deeper cuts.
I'm still not convinced that X106.7 will survive in its present form. I don't see how the current softer playlist will take away harder classic rock listeners. This station seems to be greater competition for Jack than KZEP. However, if they focus on the more obscure songs, keep the music variety, and minimize the repeats and sloppy song transitions, I think the station will perform well enough to force other stations in town to make adjustments. Hopefully things trend in a more positive direction in time.
Oh, and if the station starts adding more 80s punk and 60s, 70s more “psychedelic” rock, I may even be inclined to add the station to my presets.
So far, the station itself is not horrible and is quite listenable. In fact, they have done a pretty good job an bringing a variety of songs to the market despite the overlap with KONO, KZEP, Jack, and KISS/977. I have heard a fair combo of the usual overplayed songs, but it seems that Cox Radio is trying to at least somewhat put an effort into playing lesser known, but equally good, songs to distinguish themselves from the other competing radio stations. I also like that repeats have been kept to a minimum among both artists and titles.
Things I wish they'd improve upon include song transitions, choices and tempo. Going from Muse to Van Halen was very awkward. It would be nice if they divided the music into blocks of newer songs and older songs instead of staying on a 100% shuffle. Some of the songs seem too pop to belong on the playlist – like David Bowie, Rob Thomas, Dave Matthews Band, and Michelle Branch (with Santana in “Game of Love”). In addition, the pace of the music is a little too slow for my taste. Maybe it would sound better if they added some heavier deeper cuts.
I'm still not convinced that X106.7 will survive in its present form. I don't see how the current softer playlist will take away harder classic rock listeners. This station seems to be greater competition for Jack than KZEP. However, if they focus on the more obscure songs, keep the music variety, and minimize the repeats and sloppy song transitions, I think the station will perform well enough to force other stations in town to make adjustments. Hopefully things trend in a more positive direction in time.
Oh, and if the station starts adding more 80s punk and 60s, 70s more “psychedelic” rock, I may even be inclined to add the station to my presets.
9
93-3TheSurge
Guest
Come to think of it, I haven't liked any of the past format flips in the San Antonio/Austin area. For example:
106-7 FM Talk to Classic Rock
104.9 Digital to Sports
92.5 Digital to Oldies
107-7 Hitz FM to Norteno
98-9 La Ley to Big Talker
In fact, the last flip I actually liked was 97-7 La Kalle to 97-7 Rock. When I think about how great 97-7 Rock is, it is hard to get mad at Cox.
Oh well. Hopefully next February we will be talking about how awesome 106-7 The End is and how Cox really stepped up to the plate and brought Alternative to the 7th largest city, something long overdue.
106-7 FM Talk to Classic Rock
104.9 Digital to Sports
92.5 Digital to Oldies
107-7 Hitz FM to Norteno
98-9 La Ley to Big Talker
In fact, the last flip I actually liked was 97-7 La Kalle to 97-7 Rock. When I think about how great 97-7 Rock is, it is hard to get mad at Cox.
Oh well. Hopefully next February we will be talking about how awesome 106-7 The End is and how Cox really stepped up to the plate and brought Alternative to the 7th largest city, something long overdue.
9
93-3TheSurge
Guest
It's been one week since the flip, and I still stand by my previous comments. What a horrible decision on a format by Cox. I think the ratings would have been better if the format was Dance.
Here are 5 formats that would have made Cox more money than flipping to "Third World Class Rock."
1) Alternative
2) Rhythmic Oldies
3) Pop en Espanol
4) Sports FM
5) Smooth Jazz
Also, what was 106-7's Moniker when it was a Dance format in 2003?
Here are 5 formats that would have made Cox more money than flipping to "Third World Class Rock."
1) Alternative
2) Rhythmic Oldies
3) Pop en Espanol
4) Sports FM
5) Smooth Jazz
Also, what was 106-7's Moniker when it was a Dance format in 2003?
106.7 Jamz
1. Not gonna happen. Real alternative is on 90.1 KSYM. Alternative FM is largely based on 90s gold, so all you hear are the same songs by NIN, Nirvana, STP, ect. with a few safe modern rock songs sprinkled in. That would overlap KISS's format.93-3TheSurge said:
2. Tried and failed. Rhythmic oldies does not have a long shelf life. A lot of that stuff sounds very dated, especially when you get into the 80s and early 90s. A better choice would be R&B. Since KSJL was deleted, there's NO station in San Antonio representing the Africian-American community, as small as it may be in SA. (The Beat is geared towards the Hispanic community)
3) On 95.1 La Kalle already
4) ESPN 97.5 - Houston. Need I say more?
5) Smooth jazz stations are dying across the country. Why? Because those idiot programmers think The Police, Barry White and Rod Stewart are considered "smooth jazz." Get an HD radio and listen to Q101.9's SJ feed on HD2 (if it's still there)
Give 106.7 some time to tweak their format. My experience with format flips are that they either play a very diverse list of music, only to cut it down and play it safe, or vice versa.
9
93-3TheSurge
Guest
1) Your opinion. Also, you left out Local H, Better than Ezra, Beck, Primitive Radio Gods, Porno for Pyros, Brand New, Blind Melon, Collective Soul, Dishwalla, Green Day, King Missile (Detachable Penis), Nada Surf, Our Lady Peace, POTUS, Toadies, Radiohead, REM, Soul Asylum, Soul Coughing, Spacehog, Wallflowers, Modest Mouse, and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, and other bands that KISS doesn't play. My point? Alternative doesn't overlap KISS (100%, anyway), it provides...wait for it...an ALTERNATIVE, something San Antonians have been begging for since 1993. Just check earlier threads to confirm this theory.
2) I don't like it anyway, so I'm not going to make points for it.
3) Not the same as Digital 104.1, you remeber Digital, right? That, my friend, was pop en espanol, not reggaeton like La Kalle.
4) What's wrong with ESPN 97-5? (other than it doesn't cover the westside)
5) Again, not really into this format, save for when Brenda Russell's Piano in the Dark is on a smooth jazz station. Anytime that song is on the radio, I don't want anyone to talk to me, I just want to lean back and enjoy the five minutes and 19 seconds of musical perfection. Sometimes I pretend Brenda Russell is singing about me, except I can't play the piano, and I'm afraid of the dark.
2) I don't like it anyway, so I'm not going to make points for it.
3) Not the same as Digital 104.1, you remeber Digital, right? That, my friend, was pop en espanol, not reggaeton like La Kalle.
4) What's wrong with ESPN 97-5? (other than it doesn't cover the westside)
5) Again, not really into this format, save for when Brenda Russell's Piano in the Dark is on a smooth jazz station. Anytime that song is on the radio, I don't want anyone to talk to me, I just want to lean back and enjoy the five minutes and 19 seconds of musical perfection. Sometimes I pretend Brenda Russell is singing about me, except I can't play the piano, and I'm afraid of the dark.
Reggaeton is actually a small percentage of what is played on La Kalle. The station when it's not mixing sounds far from urban.
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