HOT 97.5 Sold to Good News Broadcasting

[TheBigA]

I think he just misread the viability of programming a Boomer-centric format and not including enough music that also appeals to younger demos.

The sad part is he put his reputation on the line, and authored numerous articles promoting the commercial viability of formats aiming at 65+. The station airing the format apparently didn't find any benefits in that demo, and asked him to adjust the music. That's what led to the ratings drop.

But I've said this numerous times that the easiest way for any radio station to improve it's 6+ share is to add 60s music to their format.

 

[K.M. Richards]

When I finally moved from Tujunga to Phoenix in 1972, the Los Angeles noncommercial dial was pretty much set with ... [edit] ... KCSN in Northridge at 88.5 mHz (it was the last to come on the air in my area);

Actually, 88.5 was originally applied for by what was then San Fernando State College May 9, 1963 (my seventh birthday!), and the application was drawn up by none other than Saul Levine, who also donated the original transmitter and antenna.

CP was granted June 20, with 10 watts ERP, and it signed on as KEDC the following April. In 1966, they filed for an increase to 320 watts and were licensed at that ERP a year later. They went to 3kW in 1974, and the call letter change was apparently concurrent with that increase.

So I am guessing, Ted, that Tujunga was just too far away from Northridge for the signal to get to you before that last increase.

 

[K.M. Richards]

The sad part is he put his reputation on the line, and authored numerous articles promoting the commercial viability of formats aiming at 65+. The station airing the format apparently didn't find any benefits in that demo, and asked him to adjust the music. That's what led to the ratings drop.

That is indeed the sad part. I have to admit that I thought he was wrong from the start, and that was what led me to research the viability of an 80's-focused format as not just attractive to 55+ but also mass appeal enough to get some younger demos.

But I've said this numerous times that the easiest way for any radio station to improve it's 6+ share is to add 60s music to their format.

Provided no one looks at the demo breakouts ...

 

[KilowattKat]

The station airing the format apparently didn't find any benefits in that demo, and asked him to adjust the music. That's what led to the ratings drop.

But I've said this numerous times that the easiest way for any radio station to improve it's 6+ share is to add 60s music to their format.

There was an attempt to add other elements to attract listeners other than just being a jukebox. Veteran radio personality Danny Davis did a live remote on Wednesdays (10-3) from the Desert Diamond Casino hosting the "The Club 55 Plus Dance Party". This was 2 years ago.

 

[EricStein]

And that is my point. The primary reason that religious stations now dominate the noncommercial sector of the FM band today in cities like Phoenix is because when that part of the band was wide open, few, if any, secular noncommercial entities chose to apply for radio stations in the band.

And now, groups like K-Love want stations on the commercial side of the dial because of the assumption that more listeners scan through 92.1-107.9 than down at the non-commercial end of the dial.

 

[lanceventa]

And now, groups like K-Love want stations on the commercial side of the dial because of the assumption that more listeners scan through 92.1-107.9 than down at the non-commercial end of the dial.

They want stations period. 75% of the FM dial is in the commercial portion and more likely to be available for sale. They don't care where on the dial it is, but there is a bonus if they have an existing audience they can transfer over.

 

[TheBigA]

And now, groups like K-Love want stations on the commercial side of the dial because of the assumption that more listeners scan through 92.1-107.9 than down at the non-commercial end of the dial.

Other music non-profits are free to copy the model of K-Love, raise money, and buy available FM frequencies. One such group did so recently in the state of Washington.

Home

www.koolops.org

The Oldies Preservation Society immediate mission is to keep all these great songs from the early years of rock on the radio in the Spokane area. We at O.P.S. believe that preserving the music of yesterday is essential for the radio listeners of today and tomorrow.
To help accomplish our mission, for many years we solicited donations on radio station KOOL 107.1FM to help expand our membership and raise financial support through regular Pledge Drives. All this was done to help O.P.S. fulfill our goal of someday owning and operating our own radio station.

 

[ted chittenden]

Actually, 88.5 was originally applied for by what was then San Fernando State College May 9, 1963 (my seventh birthday!), and the application was drawn up by none other than Saul Levine, who also donated the original transmitter and antenna.

CP was granted June 20, with 10 watts ERP, and it signed on as KEDC the following April. In 1966, they filed for an increase to 320 watts and were licensed at that ERP a year later. They went to 3kW in 1974, and the call letter change was apparently concurrent with that increase.

So I am guessing, Ted, that Tujunga was just too far away from Northridge for the signal to get to you before that last increase.

I *thought* that station may have had another callsign, but, for the life of me, I couldn't remember it. Regarding when I first heard the station, it was at my grandmother's house on Summit Rose St., just east of Foothill Boulevard, back in the summer of 1971. I distinctly remember it because that was when, and where, I heard for the first time, Carole King's version of "(You Make Me Feel Like) a Natural Woman." While it was possible to hear the station from my house on Day Street and Colbert (or was it Colvert) in eastern Tujunga, the signal was a lot fuzzier. As to why I hadn't heard the station before that, 1) I didn't get access to my dad's AM/FM receiver until the first trip we took to Glamis over Thanksgiving of 1970; and 2) I was too busy playing around on the fuzzy end of the commercial end of the FM band (as well as the more clear-sounding AM band) to pay much attention to the noncommercial stations at the lower end of the FM dial.

 

[K.M. Richards]

They don't care where on the dial it is, but there is a bonus if they have an existing audience they can transfer over.

Of course, the fallacy in their thinking there is that the existing audience leaves en masse after their favorite station goes away as a result of the sale.

 

[lanceventa]

Of course, the fallacy in their thinking there is that the existing audience leaves en masse after their favorite station goes away as a result of the sale.

Not necessarily. K-Love has seen more early ratings growth in a market when it replaces an AC or Hot AC than another format. They know people will still punch in and they try to hook a listener with music that they know sounds just similar enough to what was there and try to convert them to listeners then donors.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Not necessarily. K-Love has seen more early ratings growth in a market when it replaces an AC or Hot AC than another format. They know people will still punch in and they try to hook a listener with music that they know sounds just similar enough to what was there and try to convert them to listeners then donors.

But that's not an absolute given. Your phrasing essentially says that ... it depends on what the format was before they took over.

Example: Here in L.A., K-Love (well, they were still legally EMF at the time) replaced a Classic Rock station at 100.3 back in 2017 and virtually the entire audience bailed.

 

[ted chittenden]

Sounds to me like John Sebastian will finally have to retire. The format never took off in syndication (a feeling I know too well myself) and now his one station is apparently tossing him aside.

Which is a shame, because he is one of the all-time great programmers. I think he just misread the viability of programming a Boomer-centric format and not including enough music that also appeals to younger demos.

One thing that may have lulled Mr. Sebastian (and again, I'm only guessing as I neither know him or anybody else employed by KOAI or Zelus personally) was the results of the music tests conducted.

I know the "how" of how those tests were conducted from personal experience. Basically, around 2020, the station announced over the air that if you wanted to be involved in helping to choose the music the station played, you could go to the station's website and fill out a form. The form included questions about your name, age, how to contact you, and when and how often you listened to KOAI.

I filled out the form and then clicked on a link to take the test online. Approximately 30 seconds of songs were played, most of which I knew, and I had to decide whether I liked them, disliked them, never heard them before, or never heard them before but wanted to hear more. The vast majority of the songs were released between 1964 and 1985 with a few songs sprinkled in from before the Beatles era (including the 1950s) and a few that charted after 1985. Since participation was voluntary and since the musical clips were mainly from the 1964-1985 timeframe, I think that it was safe to say that those were the songs that were really being tested.

A few years after I took the first music test (I believe it was around the beginning of 2025), the station sent me an email invitation (remember that I had given it my contact information) to participate in another music survey. This second survey covered many of the same songs as the first survey did (per my memory) except with some of the minor hits and music recorded after 1985 taken out. What I think I'm saying (and this is in hindsight, of course) is because these music tests primarily revolved around music between 1964 and 1985 and *because* the second survey came via email, Mr. Sebastian and Co. may not have had enough results from younger listeners to show where the problems in serving an older audience only might be.

Again, as I said at the top, I'm only guessing at what happened. Outside of actual survey participation, I have nothing whatsoever to back up my theories of what occured.

 

[Azfmfan1]

One strange nugget from all this, is that I noticed a few weeks ago that Hot had removed all mentions of the 103.9 signal on the air from dj’s and imaging. Also the main logo on the website only has the 97.5 frequency on it.

 

[KilowattKat]

One strange nugget from all this, is that I noticed a few weeks ago that Hot had removed all mentions of the 103.9 signal on the air from dj’s and imaging. Also the main logo on the website only has the 97.5 frequency on it.

You're right...this is a strange nugget!

Home - Hot 97.5/103.9 Phoenix

hot975hot1039.com

 

[lanceventa]

You're right...this is a strange nugget!

Home - Hot 97.5/103.9 Phoenix

hot975hot1039.com

That's been like that for nearly a year

Home - Hot 97.5/103.9 Phoenix

web.archive.org

A separate site of theirs still is live from 2012 frozen in time:

HOT 97.5 /// Hits. Now.

 

[KilowattKat]

That's been like that for nearly a year

Home - Hot 97.5/103.9 Phoenix

web.archive.org

A separate site of theirs still is live from 2012 frozen in time:

HOT 97.5 /// Hits. Now.

Why are on earth are they using a logo that doesn't include the frequency where two thirds of the listeners tune into? I know they have a HOT logo with both frequencies, I've seen it. Or, is this just an overlooked error that no one has noticed for at least a year?

Either way,, this shows the level of incompetence at Zelus.

 

[K.M. Richards]

One thing that may have lulled Mr. Sebastian (and again, I'm only guessing as I neither know him or anybody else employed by KOAI or Zelus personally) was the results of the music tests conducted.

I know the "how" of how those tests were conducted from personal experience. Basically, around 2020, the station announced over the air that if you wanted to be involved in helping to choose the music the station played, you could go to the station's website and fill out a form. The form included questions about your name, age, how to contact you, and when and how often you listened to KOAI.

I filled out the form and then clicked on a link to take the test online. Approximately 30 seconds of songs were played, most of which I knew, and I had to decide whether I liked them, disliked them, never heard them before, or never heard them before but wanted to hear more. The vast majority of the songs were released between 1964 and 1985 with a few songs sprinkled in from before the Beatles era (including the 1950s) and a few that charted after 1985. Since participation was voluntary and since the musical clips were mainly from the 1964-1985 timeframe, I think that it was safe to say that those were the songs that were really being tested.

A few years after I took the first music test (I believe it was around the beginning of 2025), the station sent me an email invitation (remember that I had given it my contact information) to participate in another music survey. This second survey covered many of the same songs as the first survey did (per my memory) except with some of the minor hits and music recorded after 1985 taken out. What I think I'm saying (and this is in hindsight, of course) is because these music tests primarily revolved around music between 1964 and 1985 and *because* the second survey came via email, Mr. Sebastian and Co. may not have had enough results from younger listeners to show where the problems in serving an older audience only might be.

Again, as I said at the top, I'm only guessing at what happened. Outside of actual survey participation, I have nothing whatsoever to back up my theories of what occured.

EVERYONE who thinks programmers operate in a vacuum needs to read your post, Ted. You have detailed a classic example of the music research process in the modern era.

This is the 21st century version of what @davideduardo outlined at his site ... the auditorium test:

RESEARCH: Radio Station AMT Auditorium Music Testing

 

[Sammi Brie]

I think it should be pointed out that the basic reason that the non-commercial sector of the FM band in Phoenix has mostly religious occupants is because no other noncommercial operation came forward to get these frequencies when they were available. This was not true in Los Angeles, San Francisco, or even your own San Diego (although the last one is a special case that I'll get to in a moment.)

When I first visited Phoenix in July of 1971, KMCR (91.5 mHz, now KJZZ) was just getting off the ground. As far as I knew for many years (I later found out I was wrong), that was Phoenix' first noncommercial outlet. The next one didn't appear until KFLR (1979 or 1980, if memory serves) at 90.3 mHz. Then came KBAQ at 89.5 in the mid-1980s (it was a joint partnership between Arizona State University and the state of Arizona) followed in the early 1990s by the shared stations at 88.3 of KPHF (religious) and KNAI (Radio Campesina) (the years are per my memory and therefore may be wrong). By the late 1990s and early 2000s, you had K-Love on89.9 mHz (licensed to Superior) and also on 90.9 (licensed to Prescott but which puts a fair signal into north central Phoenix where I live.)

Let's compare that with Los Angeles. When I finally moved from Tujunga to Phoenix in 1972, the Los Angeles noncommercial dial was pretty much set with (going backwards in frequency) KUSC at 91.5 mHz; KPFK at 90.7 mHz; KCRW at 89.9 mHz; KPCC at 89.3 mHz; KXLU (which could not be heard much outside of west Los Angeles) at 88.9 mHz; KCSN in Northridge at 88.5 mHz (it was the last to come on the air in my area); and Long Beach's KLON at 88.1. Because these (mostly) college and university stations had gotten there first, there was very little (if any) room for religious outlets to enter the noncommercial section of the FM band in that city.

I said above that San Diego was a special case. The reason is that the California city sits directly across the border from Tijuana, meaning that the available FM frequencies had to be shared between U.S. and Mexican-based stations. Further murkiing up the waters is the fact that frequencies between 88.1 and 91.9 mHz are *not* considered to be noncommercial frequencies by the Mexican government. The result is that, though there are only two U.S.-based noncommercial radio stations over there (three if you count the on-again, off-again licensed to Descanso at 89.1 mHz), U.S. religious outlets have never been able to get their foot in the door in the noncommercial band there.

And that is my point. The primary reason that religious stations now dominate the noncommercial sector of the FM band today in cities like Phoenix is because when that part of the band was wide open, few, if any, secular noncommercial entities chose to apply for radio stations in the band.

Yes, some very good points regarding non comm Phoenix radio history. I would like to know why Arizona State University never started a public radio station like most other large universities. Only a public television station back in 1961, KAET. I suppose they were satisfied with having closed circuit radio instead of an actual FM signal.

One of the big things about Phoenix is that there were very few institutions that would have made noncommercial radio licensees compared to a lot of cities the same size, even then. Phoenix never had the wave of small private or even public colleges with radio programs that would have seeded the NCE licenses for later use. This is also why Phoenix's NCE TV channel 39 never had a full-power use until Daystar in 2000 (not counting the LPTV using the channel in the 80s and 90s). The community colleges filed an application in 1968, and that was it.

The two leading candidates are Arizona State University and the community colleges. Phoenix College was, of course, first to act with KFCA in 1950. At that time, it would have been hard, outside of maybe a high school, to identify another group in town interested in running a station. Phoenix lacked the depth of private educational institutions that wanted to get into radio that was present in most other larger Western cities. Nor did any viable community groups emerge (there was an 89.5 CP in the 1970s, KIAI, that never was built), so there was no equivalent of e.g. KRCL/Salt Lake City.

ASU got into television in 1961, but it did not get into radio, not unsurprising. They actually came fairly close to it in the late 1970s and early 1980s after hiring Frederic Leigh of the University of Nebraska at Omaha. ASU's proposal was to run a fine arts station, not a student/progressive rock station. Their first filing in 1980 for 88.3 coincided with one that might have interfered from NAU in Flagstaff on 88.5, which caused problems for getting a grant. NAU had a student-run station that evolved into a professionalized NPR outlet. The problem was that when they refiled, it was 1981, and Reagan budget cuts killed the idea. The studios were built, but a carrier current operation resulted instead of a broadcast station. In 1983 and 1984, Family Radio, the UFW and Family Life Radio all filed for their FMs. And by this point the Class D service that had birthed many smaller noncoms was gone.

I think had KASR-FM been built at that time, it would have ended up being the classical music station for Phoenix.

ASU finally filed in 1986, after KHEP left the classical format, and by the time it did, their application was frankly a waste of everyone's time. They filed for 89.5 opposite KJZZ and two other applicants. Their bid in particular delayed KBAQ by several years because the FCC originally proposed the two educational institutions alternate days of broadcasting. It is the reason ASU is a joint licensee with MCCCD of KBAQ, though its contributions are much more limited to the naked ear (as KJZZ has the radio infrastructure and ASU contributes concerts and recording services). And I think by the time that was done, the barn door was pretty well shut on ASU going into a high-power station. There's probably even an open question of whether it could have survived the Great Recession.

 

[Country girl]

ASU had KASR-AM in the early 90s, I worked there for a semester doing news while getting my Broadcasting degree. Musically speaking, I think it was an alternative station (I lived off campus so could not hear it).

 

[MarkW]

The Zone 94.9 is a toy station and nothing more and represents resurrection of a brand that for most of its life was "damaged goods." It's amazing how much attention it receives here. It'll never receive more than a 0.2 or 0.3 share and will never command anything more than a very tiny share of market revenue.