How Deep Should A Playlist Go?

[hornet61]

there are some tunes i just don't like..period ..and would never play for myself..such as "the lion sleeps tonight" or "keep on dancin'" ...however..EVERY song IS someone's favorite...assuming..they happen to be listening at that moment :...lol..thus i do have them in the playlist...and will ,with a great deal of reluctance, play them..should the request arise..i don't have to deal with a continuing 24/7 playlist rotation in my situation, as i record the Friday night show live, and it is archived for me, for re-runs through the week..which surprisingly is getting a lot of hits for the replays..

thank you very much.....one man's junk is another mans treasure.

 

[Captainfirst]

You've all given me some good ideas, some of which I'll probably wind up using. I'm adding some cuts from 1980-1984, which will bring the total number of songs up to around 3000 or so. My station will probably debut in 2-3 weeks on either Loudcaster or Live365.

The "feel" I'm going for is that of one of my all time favorite radio stations, whose djs would spin some serious trainwrecks (I once heard their afternoon jock spin "Another Brick In The Wall" followed by "The Mountain's High"). But the talent of the guys and gals on air, their attitude, and energy, made it all work somehow.

 

[oldies76]

however..EVERY song IS someone's favorite...assuming..they happen to be listening at that moment :...lol..thus i do have them in the playlist...and will ,with a great deal of reluctance, play them..should the request arise..i don't have to deal with a continuing 24/7 playlist rotation in my situation

Exactly...how all oldies stations should be....play them all.

 

[deltas69]

i now have a rough draft of my website up although i have not deployed it yet you guys can have a look though...since this is one bid oldie(hate the term lol) ??? family... chucklundi.com if the link at left doesn't work type it in the address bar... :

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Deep enough so you don't play Brown Eyed Girl at 3:59 PM one day, and again at
8:07 AM the next.

And how come the Old Gringo hasn't come by to tell everyone they're all wacked out
for having such large playlists?

 

[johnsummers]

That's the beauty of Internet Radio. You can play anything you like and then marvel at 'how great it sounds'.

 

[TheFonz]

That's the beauty of Internet Radio. You can play anything you like and then marvel at 'how great it sounds'.

Funny you should mention that. I just heard a song on internet radio by Carl Perkins called "Rockin' Record Hop". I've been a Perkins fan for over 50 years and I never knew the song existed! For anyone that's interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn_I4S7KZqc&playnext=1&list=PLD7893E3C424742E1

 

[davideduardo]

Deep enough so you don't play Brown Eyed Girl at 3:59 PM one day, and again at
8:07 AM the next.

And how come the Old Gringo hasn't come by to tell everyone they're all wacked out
for having such large playlists?

... because it is internet streaming, not stations with payrolls and expenses. If you have 25 persons listening on average, that seems cool to some. But if you are in LA and don't have 30,000 or more listening to a "real" station you are going to be hurting.

So, go ahead and play what you want. You might amalgamate the 20 or 30 people in every city across the country and get a thousand or so listeners to your particular blend if it is good.

But just playing songs because they charted won't get listening anywhere because too many of them are not desirable or appropriate for today.

 

[deltas69]

i will agree...albeit reluctantly with Dave on the statement of playing uncharted songs will be a tune out simply because they are not familiar..or were not good enough in the day to warrant playing..heck there are lots of charted songs i don't deem airworthy because they just are bad..but did in fact chart..sometimes higher than the should have..my disagreement, and not just with Dave but ALL stations that write off the 55+ demo is that they are missing the money train that the "babyboom" generation has to spend. yes I know all the consultants, and other soothsayers say that age isn't ad worthy..we are set in our ways and too brand loyal to change..bullshi*..we have computers, droids, plasma tv's we drive lexus,infiniti,and bmw's..instead of ford ltd's..and we remember more than the same old 300 songs that consultants refuse to understand. my little toy station is only promoted through my facebook friends..about 200..and the word of mouth that goes with that..yet in just under two years..i have had over 6000 hits on it. and i'm not playing what i want...i'm playing what they want..and it ain't pretty woman and brown eyed girl...in fact..in two years..i've NEVER played brown eyed girl..have played moon dance, blue money, domino..and others by van morrison..but you get my drift here. if all goes well i will throw up the new web site Friday..April 1st..seems appropriate Aprils fools day.. :..lol. nothing very special but the next step in taking the show to a larger audience.God (larry lujack) lol knows i'm not in this for money although i would like to make as few bucks to cover the bar bill here.. ;D...but simply because i'm playimg what no other terrestrial or web station is playing as far as i know...it's amazing to me sitting here in my little corner of the bedroom that when i throw the switch on friday nights at six pm...there are a dozen people as a rule waiting for me to start...and it's not about me...it's all about the music. i have no figures on internet audiences..but i would guess if i want ..say a couple hundred listeners...i would need a t least 2000 to be aware of the show. just a 60 year old guy playing 30-40 year old music..what can go wrong ?? lol thanks for letting me rant..cheers

 

[Drawer L]

I've always argued,if it was a chart hit,PLAY IT,dammit!!!---None of 'WAHHHHH,It doesn't test well'!!--Test again!!---ALSO--very important--if something was a big local hit,but not nationally,by all means-PLAY IT!!!---Radio is supposed to be local.Yes,there are national hits,but some are bigger in different areas.A NYC or LA oldies stations shouldn't be playing EXACTLY what a Iowa oldies does.And vice versa....

 

[oldies76]

But just playing songs because they charted won't get listening anywhere because too many of them are not desirable or appropriate for today.

But as some have stated here, any song is someone's favorite.....play them all.

Many do not like "Brown Eyed Girl" or "My Girl" or "Low Rider"..etc.., but on the other hand, many do. It's 50-50, same goes for "undesirable" hits like "Honey" or "Winchester Cathedral" or "Afternoon Delight"....any song is someone's favorite.

You used the wording..."too many of them are not desirable" - disagree here.....The correct response should be...."some of them are not desirable....." and only to ones who do not like these songs....others will....count on it. It's 50-50.

 

[oldies76]

I've always argued,if it was a chart hit,PLAY IT,dammit!!!---None of 'WAHHHHH,It doesn't test well'!!--Test again!!---ALSO--very important--if something was a big local hit,but not nationally,by all means-PLAY IT!!!---Radio is supposed to be local.Yes,there are national hits,but some are bigger in different areas.A NYC or LA oldies stations shouldn't be playing EXACTLY what a Iowa oldies does.And vice versa....

Any song that was popular in it's day...should be played today. Ever wonder how the same "tested" songs keep winning?? (A theory) It's because most likely those are the only songs presented to the groups (from prior successful tests) and since they've heard them many times before over the years, they are saturated with these songs (a forced mindset) and have forgotten what WAS really popular in their day, therefore only choose what has been played on radio for the past 10 years. Nevermind the hundreds of other songs that were popular in their days, but never get played today.

A good radio station will try satisfy the listener, and once satisifed they will stay on board. You play their favorites (through requests and well-balanced playlists) and they will stick with you. It's all about satisfaction...just like customer satisfaction in a retail store.

 

[davideduardo]

.my disagreement, and not just with Dave but ALL stations that write off the 55+ demo is that they are missing the money train that the "babyboom" generation has to spend. yes I know all the consultants, and other soothsayers say that age isn't ad worthy..we are set in our ways and too brand loyal to change..bullshi*..we have computers, droids, plasma tv's we drive lexus,infiniti,and bmw's..instead of ford ltd's..

Your anger is misdirected. Those of us in radio would like nothing better than for advertisers to take an interest in 55+. But as long as agency clients tell the agency that their target is under 55, or under 50, or just men under 44 or whatever, there will be no money to support a station aiming higher.

Radio stations do not as a rule get access to the decision makers on targeting at national brands and services. That is determined by research at the product level, and an agency that buys outside the target, when audited, may lose an account.

The clients have significant data showing that older consumers only buy after many more impressions... raising the cost per sale to the point where there is no profit.

 

[davideduardo]

Any song that was popular in it's day...should be played today. Ever wonder how the same "tested" songs keep winning?? (A theory) It's because most likely those are the only songs presented to the groups (from prior successful tests) and since they've heard them many times before over the years, they are saturated with these songs (a forced mindset) and have forgotten what WAS really popular in their day, therefore only choose what has been played on radio for the past 10 years. Nevermind the hundreds of other songs that were popular in their days, but never get played today.

I've been part of or conducted hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of music tests over the last thirty years or so. And in every case, songs are retested even if they did not pass previously if there is even a glimmer of chance.

We know just from common sense that Ballad of the Green Berets or Big John or Does Your Chewing Gum... will not hold an audience, but we still test them. If they fail over and over, we never try again. But songs that may have worn thin and dropped in tests are tried again later to see if they have come back from having rested.

And that's true for Oldies or Classic hits or country or even CHR.

The key is understanding that the listener is asked in a test to indicate how much they would like to hear the song on the radio today.

In the larger PPM markets, we can also see how the audience reacts every time every song is played. A song that consistently causes listener loss is a song that does not get played any more.

 

[davideduardo]

But as some have stated here, any song is someone's favorite.....play them all.

Many do not like "Brown Eyed Girl" or "My Girl" or "Low Rider"..etc.., but on the other hand, many do. It's 50-50, same goes for "undesirable" hits like "Honey" or "Winchester Cathedral" or "Afternoon Delight"....any song is someone's favorite.

But where do you draw the line? If a song causes 60% of your listeners to tune out, do you play it for the other 40%? Of course not. All songs have to be at least on the positive side of neutral with everyone to play on the radio, or every song you play will drive significant percentages of the listeners away... and after four or five songs, there is nobody left. Oh, and the station quickly goes broke or changes format.

 

[oldies76]

But where do you draw the line? If a song causes 60% of your listeners to tune out, do you play it for the other 40%? Of course not.

But on the other hand, 4 out of 10 will never hear some of their favorites....that's a significant number in the overall population that attempts to tune in. Just a thought....

 

[oldies76]

We know just from common sense that Ballad of the Green Berets or Big John or Does Your Chewing Gum... will not hold an audience, but we still test them.

Spoken word / novelty type songs most likely won't hold as well as regular hit songs....Will You Love Me Tomorrow, Little Children, Popsicles and Icicles or Little Honda...will do better.

 

[firepoint525]

Forget "consultants" and "tests" and all that other radio lingo. Next time you go for a haircut, just ask the stylist for her opinion of the radio station that they happen to be playing there. But don't let them know that you are a radio guy until after they give you their opinion (if you tell them that at all!). You will usually get very strong opinions from them about the music that they are forced to listen to all day long! They are a captive audience of what ever station that they happen to be forced to listen to. They can tell you that the same song plays at the same time every day. They can even begin to pick up patterns in the way that the songs are played. In other words, if they hear "song A," then they know that "song B" will be next. It may not actually be that way, but with them, the perception is reality. Now, of course, you will get a few who mentally "tune out" whatever happens to be playing, but if they are actually listening, they will be able to give you some strong opinions. The upshot to this is that this is a great conversation starter, and will help their day flow more smoothly, while giving you both something to talk about while you sit there.

One year, back in the early '90s, right before Christmas, I was getting a haircut, and they had a Garth Brooks CD playing, because they were all sick and tired of Christmas music on the radio (which just happened to be what we, too, were playing at the time.).

At another Fantastic Sam's location, they let each stylist take turns picking the station that they would be listening to for that day, so that they weren't forced to listen to the same thing day after day after day.

 

[deltas69]

i'm not angry dave..perplexed that radio has thrown out the 55+ demo as a non audience. i expect within the next 15 to 20 years "our music" will have gone the way of big bands as we die off..so goes the tunes..i just think the way tests are run is a flawed way to do it...now i understand that as a jock we were in an atmosphere where we heard every song every day for 3 to six hours as a rule..thus all of that is committed to memory where the guy on his way to or from work only has say 2 to 3 hours of listening time per day..and thats why stations only format 300-400 songs..but with so many songs available why must "pretty woman" be played two or three times per day ? if i heard it at 6:30 am..i don't want to hear it at 4:09 that afternoon. too many good songs to play instead..let "pretty woman" rotate back within 2-3 weeks..keep that mega list rotating...stations will play only one or two supreme songs..they had many more..the grass roots had more hits that "midnight confessions"...hope i'm making a point here..and i'm not trying to start an argument..but it appears more people on this board agree with my thinking...than yours.......respectfully..chuck lundi

 

[davideduardo]

But where do you draw the line? If a song causes 60% of your listeners to tune out, do you play it for the other 40%? Of course not.

But on the other hand, 4 out of 10 will never hear some of their favorites....that's a significant number in the overall population that attempts to tune in. Just a thought....

That is also true. Some songs that each person likes will not be played. But the idea in "broad"casting is to reach as large a group of people as possible, and that means finding a consensus... a batch of songs that everyone likes or loves and which will not cause any listener to hear too many songs they are not passionate about too often.

If you do the opposite... playing songs that a minority of potential listeners like but which the majority dislike, you will end up with no listeners.

In the oldies / classic hits arena, while there may be several thousand that charted over a given 15 to 20 year span, only about a third are going to be broadly positive today. Some will be novelty songs, some will be dance fad songs, some will just sound dated and some will have charted so low that most listeners barely will have a recollection of the song and have no memories or good feelings attached. And some will be "hype" songs that charted due to the label giving free retail product, etc., and which were never hits no matter how high they charted.

I'll add a comment about the frequently mentioned "local hits" topic: Americans are highly mobile, and a majority do not live in the place they grew up, so local hits are very often highly destructive as a huge percentage of listeners will hear not a local hit but "a crappy sounding song I never heard before."