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How Deep Should A Playlist Go?

DavidEduardo said:
Oldies/CH formats are listened to predominantly (I'd say "exclusively" were it not for the handful of folks like you) for the memories that are part of the music. You can't take an unfamiliar Monkees cut and create a new memory of the 60's to go with it...

It's not a "new memory"..people also remember "A Little Bit You, A Little Bit Me" just as much as "I'm a Believer". If they hear a song they haven't heard in a long time, it a memory to them or to someone that associates the Monkees with an event in the late 60's. Ever heard of ..."Oh Wow, haven't heard that song in years!...."

DavidEduardo said:
there are not enough like you to worry about... particularly since making the tiny percentage of your ilk happy would drive off the other 99%. As I have said before, I have no interest in hearing "new" 60's songs, be they by Cream, The Supremes, The Union Gap, The Toys or Bobby Vinton. But I'm really happy to hear Lover's Concerto or Brown Eyed Girl again, and again. That's because I genuinely like them, played them as currents, and they have memories attached. Heck, I even have a vivid, Technicolor mental movie of the first time I heard Sugar Sugar... and that is what the format is about.

If that's your way then great....Others too have their favorites and many do not hear their songs on the radio anymore, because they either stopped playing them for the so-called demo compliance or it has not been added to the rotation yet. You hearing "Brown-Eyed Girl" x times a month is just as significant as myself hearing "Cherry Hill Park" x times a month. Both should be played.

99% is highly exaggerated, by the way.
 
firepoint525 said:
Interesting that you should bring that one up, because I literally never heard "What I Like About You" in 1980, thus have NO memories associated with it. My only memory of "What I Like About You" is from the Michael Morales remake of it, which charted #28 in 1989. In my opinion, it's the far better of the two versions of the song, and it's the only version with which I associate any memories. But it's unheard on radio now.

Since I grew up in early 80's and never hearing 'What I Like About You" on the radio, no memories are associates with it. It wasn't even a hit in 1980 (#49) for pete's sake. On the other hand, "Talking in Your Sleep" in 83/84, which was played alot, was a big hit (#3) does give memories of that time.

Funny, a song that was a "stiff" in '80 is played today, but a hit song from "84 is a "stiff" today. Sounds a little backwards, to tell you the truth. But that's radio today I guess.
 
Tom Wells said:
Ha! "Ballad of the Green Berets" is on now. We are still in how many police-action type wars where we refuse to DECLARE war, and VietNam is no different from Afghanistan or Iraq or Korea .
We have people dying far away in hopes that ultimately things will be better.
Still seems relevant to me.

Maybe you should attend a music test and approve of the song, so it can get back on the air. :)

Like I've tried saying to David....everyone enjoys their particular songs (tested or untested).
 
Tom Wells said:
Ha! "Ballad of the Green Berets" is on now. We are still in how many police-action type wars where we refuse to DECLARE war, and VietNam is no different from Afghanistan or Iraq or Korea .

There is a big difference between "Soldier Boy" and "Ballad." One is a love story, the other smacks of the glorification of war to many in an era when armed conflict is being questioned and examined.

We have people dying far away in hopes that ultimately things will be better.

Funny, but that is the same reason the soldiers on the other side have for fighting, too. Most issues in the world have more than "our side" and as awareness of this increases, the acceptance of such songs will lessen (which in no way detracts from belief in our nation or its ideals... before someone thinks I am not a proud supporter of our own soldiers).

But the narrow minded still just see this as an oldie, too "dated", and even embarrassing.

However listeners see this, they don't want to hear it... in overwhelming numbers.

I am aready assured statistical sampling was devised as a way to stifle creativity by those who have little. Or to marginalize those not within a pre-defined normalization.

Statistical sampling is part of consumer goods and services of all kinds. Samples are picked to test new products, samples are picked to test new variants and brand extensions, samples are picked to survey home buying habits (brand specific or ombibus studies). Statistical sampling is how the Census and many private demographers keep track of the population and its characteristics each year between the ten year Census and such data is often more accurate than the Census itself!

Sampling is a near-universal technique that is applied to radio in order to find out how big our audience is or what specific audiences want and need.

Of course, asking the right questions in the right way is critical, and when research is done based on faulty base logic, we get "New Coke."

If a segment of the population is "marginalized" it is because that segment is so small as to not represent a viable market. Let's take a somewhat absurd premise that we discover some people who want "Papaya Flavored Coke." So we do a study, and discover that there is a small group, maybe 1% of cola consumers, who like and are excited by this flavor. But if we do a bit deeper questioning, we find that it would be bought as a change of pace, not as a staple item. So, we eliminate nearly half of all consumers who don't buy colas... and then we have 1% of the other 50%, or 0.5% who would buy the papaya variant some of the time... so the segment is down to maybe 0.125% of the total bottled drink market. And that is not a big enough market to justify either the product or to get shelf space in stores where a certain sales level per inch or foot of facing is required.

Think of radio as a product category... like soft drinks. Pepsi and Coke and 7-UP are the CHR, Country and AC's of beverages. Ethnic (Hispanic, Black, etc), Oldies and classic hits are the Dr. Pepper, Root Beer and Fruit flavors... and then we get into variants like premium brands and it seems like those change all the time. At some point, there is not enough shelving to accommodate variants because the demand is too light to create payback.

The "I want to hear everything that is in Whitburn" listeners have to realize that oldies / classic hits seldom reaches even 1/4 of all listeners (and is "picked" by , and generally only reaches about 0.4% or so at any given time of the day (yeah, at any time of the day, oldies /CH listeners are less than one out of every 200 people... the rest are not listening to radio or are listening to something else.

In LA, KRTH listeners who spend an hour a week or more with KRTH represent 9% of the 12+ population, and about 8% of the 25-54. In New York, the figures for CBS-FM are similar.

In New York, the very well programmed and executed CBS-FM shares about a third of its one-hour plus listeners with WAXQ, and then descending to my cut off of 10% sharing, with WLTW, WHTZ, WRXP, WKTU, WINS, WCBS, WWFS, WPLJ and WABC. So the oldies consumer is not brand loyal... they use plenty of other varieties or "flavors" of radio, too. When they tune in, they expect to hear the big hits, feel the big memories.

I will not be "normalized". I accepted that radio was infested with this mindset 35 years ago,
but as I have listened to and enjoyed the exceptions I know it doesn't HAVE to be this way.

The very term Broadcasting indicates that radio knew it had to have mass appeal back in the 1920's...
 
DavidEduardo said:
However listeners see this, they don't want to hear it... in overwhelming numbers.

"Overwhelming" no... a few...yes.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Think of radio as a product category... like soft drinks. Pepsi and Coke and 7-UP are the CHR, Country and AC's of beverages. Ethnic (Hispanic, Black, etc), Oldies and classic hits are the Dr. Pepper, Root Beer and Fruit flavors... and then we get into variants like premium brands and it seems like those change all the time. At some point, there is not enough shelving to accommodate variants because the demand is too light to create payback.

Nice if "Inca Kola" was more widely available.....one of my favorites.
 
On the Ballad of the Green Berets:
Exactly, David. One does smack of a glorification of war, and one is a love song.
It's hard to tell which is which, depending on the listener.
The Shirells song certainly is sappy, ignoring what happens to those who go through war.
As if the Soldier Boy is for sure going to come back in one piece, not totally changed.
Barry Sadler is akward in his delivery, and 1966 was painful for many as the war became more divisive.
His jaw is firm but he does commit that "after this, my wars are through."

That's why the song is still good.

I'm sure the "other side" has their songs too. How comfortable does evereyone feel when we play Horst Vessel?

How many tune out when we play Gorillaz, deep disco, or the Chuck Wagon Gang?

Don't know, we're not serving them, we're serving people who are on the same ride in life, who have attention spans and like music.

Not all feelings should be good and happy, and some music of necessity must be disturbing.

"Hamburger Lady" by Throbbing Gristle and "I wanna watch Cartoons" by the Happy Flowers are
two fine songs designed to create maximum disturbance each in their own special way.
Without such extreme music "on this side, the is absolutely no way I could play ANY extremely mellow "on that side".

I must recommend these songs to anyone who is fed up with the rut and needs a quick shot of mental adjustment. :)


We can continue to agree that the business has carefully measured that it IS necessary to do exactly what they are doing,
the way they are doing it.


Sody-pop
I agree too many oddball variants in soda category, but only because of the +/- caffeine/sugar really sucks up a lot of space.
I can still get Vernors's Ginger Ale and Green River but I must ration out the Moxie.
I really enjoy Goslings Ginger Beer, too.
 
oldies76 said:
Nice if "Inca Kola" was more widely available.....one of my favorites.

Now there you hit a note. When I lived in Ecuador, I had a trucker who was family to one of my team get cases of the stuff at the Peruvian border. As relations between Ecuador and Perú were not all that cordial (Perú did, as we learned in school, take away 1/3 of Ecuador in 1941), there were times that this was no easy proposition. But I always had my stash of the stuff... there must be a half a cup of cane sugar in every bottle! My dentist was a big fan of the stuff for obvious reasons...

I wonder if there is a diet version now? (Or, as they call "diet" sodas in much of Latin America, "lite."). That is like hoping for diet low fat pork rinds.
 
oldies76 said:
DavidEduardo said:
However listeners see this, they don't want to hear it... in overwhelming numbers.

"Overwhelming" no... a few...yes.

Even going back about 15 years to some tests I did while part of a project for B-100, the oldies station in D.C., I never saw the song score even a neutral range score... like 40 to 60 on a scale of 1-100. They were all well below 40 or pegged at the bottom based on the question, "how much would you like to hear this song on the radio today."

Given that we tested in Virginia, not too many miles from the Pentagon, it's obvious that the song does not even a market with a significant government and military slant.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Even going back about 15 years to some tests I did while part of a project for B-100, the oldies station in D.C., I never saw the song score even a neutral range score... like 40 to 60 on a scale of 1-100. They were all well below 40 or pegged at the bottom based on the question, "how much would you like to hear this song on the radio today."

Given that we tested in Virginia, not too many miles from the Pentagon, it's obvious that the song does not even a market with a significant government and military slant.

My bad...I actually meant all oldies in general (lower tested songs), not just "Ballad..." Spoken word type songs, usually would score lower anyways.
 
DavidEduardo said:
oldies76 said:
DavidEduardo said:
However listeners see this, they don't want to hear it... in overwhelming numbers.

"Overwhelming" no... a few...yes.

Even going back about 15 years to some tests I did while part of a project for B-100, the oldies station in D.C., I never saw the song score even a neutral range score... like 40 to 60 on a scale of 1-100. They were all well below 40 or pegged at the bottom based on the question, "how much would you like to hear this song on the radio today."

Given that we tested in Virginia, not too many miles from the Pentagon, it's obvious that the song does not even a market with a significant government and military slant.

Presuming this referred to Ballad of the Green Berets, that's exactly why it must be played, and I would expect it test poorly in Virginia.

Who "won" in VietNam?

Now let's play a snappy Kay Kyser version of "Remember Pearl Harbor" OK?
 
You know your days in radio, which have barely started, are numbered when the 23 year old weeknight playlist detailing your radio activity over the past 5+ years is presented to you...and you actually run with it.

Time to make the doughnuts.
 
The last one to try that was toast before even getting started too.
 
Well, I have to admit, I never expected this dicusssion to have so many responses, most of which are well thought out and shared with respect. If I may steer it back to my endeavours however briefly, I just would like everyone to know that I should be going "on air" by the end of next week. I have the music ready, the airchain nailed, the production elements ready to roll, now I just need a better microphone.
 
let us know where your site is so we can check it out....don't know your budget for a good mic..but mxl makes several side address mics in the 100/200 dollar range that are very good. i use an audio technica 2020 that works very well...sells for 100.00 new..but i picked mine off ebay for 60.00 with the shock mount..you may have better choices than this..as they can get quite pricy as i'm sure your aware of..the ones i mentioned are phantom powered...good luck and be sure to update us...chuck lundi
 
I'm going to be on-air as of tomorrow, after a few days of going back and forth on just what I want the station to be.

I've settled on the concept of WABC Musicradio being revived as a channel on satellite radio. I'm calling my fictional satellite service "RM Radio" and the channel "My WABC". Now, I just need to decide if I want crossfades in between songs and voiceovers. Is that something that was done in the 1970s, to the best of anyone's knowledge?
 
I'd imagine the automated stations of the day cross faded. Though Top 40 rarely played two songs in a row. There was usually a jock in between each song. But the option was certainly there.
 
Now, I just need to decide if I want crossfades in between songs and voiceovers. Is that something that was done in the 1970s, to the best of anyone's knowledge? why not pull up some old
 
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