How Deep Should A Playlist Go?

[oldies76]

Playing "My Girl" 12 times a week during the afternoon drive slot will have me tune out.

EXACTLY! Stations don't want to risk losing listeners over playing a song that they are unfamiliar with, but yet they are perfectly okay with losing listeners over playing a song that they are over-familiar with (in other words, sick of!)! Even everyday listeners are starting to notice that so and so plays the same songs over and over and over and over and over! :

I hear it all the time, with friends and others who listen to radio.....too much repetition and not enough of their favorites. David assumes that everyone must always listen to a preset selection of songs and that it's fine and tolerated by most everyone.....well it's not.

 

[oldies76]

There is absolutely no evidence that deep cuts do anything but destroy a station... and the career of the program director. All of us who program or have programmed have either been fired or seen someone fired for expanding the playlist and shrinking the ratings.

Really, I hear "deep" cuts all the time on our local AM and occasionally on CBS-FM. They are still broadcasting, last I checked. And you are right, no one plays "deep" cuts anymore, meaning sub position 40's on the Hot 100. It's the "deep" cuts in the Top 20.

 

[deltas69]

Your argument fails because it has never been necessary to have a license to be on the air....OK..first ticket holders..if there are any out there left..WATT...please settle this..I contend that when I got my license in 1971 from the FCC..it was required to have a third class radio telephone license with BROADCAST ENDORSEMENT to talk on the air.the fist two parts of the test were elements one and two, the last was element nine..element nine was the broadcast endorsement part of the test..without that..I could have been a dispatcher for a taxi stand, or police department with the first two parts..but to be "ON THE AIR" I had to pass the last part of the test..so Watt...what say you ???

 

[davideduardo]

Your argument fails because it has never been necessary to have a license to be on the air....OK..first ticket holders..if there are any out there left

No, those of us with firsts were converted to General Class about two decades ago, and no license is required by the FCC to work on transmission equipment, although in some jurisdictions certain work may have to be done by a licensed professional of some type...but that applies mostly to installations of power connections and electrical.

..WATT...please settle this..I contend that when I got my license in 1971 from the FCC..it was required to have a third class radio telephone license with BROADCAST ENDORSEMENT to talk on the air.

Nope, that was not required to be on the air. It was required to be on the log. Being on the air required no license.

the fist two parts of the test were elements one and two, the last was element nine..element nine was the broadcast endorsement part of the test..without that..I could have been a dispatcher for a taxi stand, or police department with the first two parts..but to be "ON THE AIR" I had to pass the last part of the test..so Watt...what say you ???

Again, that was required to maintain the log, not to talk.

A taxi dispatcher didn't need a Third, either, if someone else kept the transmitter records and keyed the mike.... The FCC licenses were issued to enable a person to do different levels of FCC required documents and to work on transmission equipment. You did not even need a license to work on studio gear, either. But any RF or antenna stuff, yes.

 

[davideduardo]

There is absolutely no evidence that deep cuts do anything but destroy a station... and the career of the program director. All of us who program or have programmed have either been fired or seen someone fired for expanding the playlist and shrinking the ratings.

Really, I hear "deep" cuts all the time on our local AM and occasionally on CBS-FM. They are still broadcasting, last I checked. And you are right, no one plays "deep" cuts anymore, meaning sub position 40's on the Hot 100. It's the "deep" cuts in the Top 20.

The AM, wherever it is, is not, I'll bet, in the top 10. I'll bet it is not even in the top half of all stations.

CBS FM does the stranger cuts in "dayparts when nobody listens" such as 7-Midnight on weekends just to strengthen its image of doing things ("image" and "perception") that it can't do in the major dayparts of 6 AM to 7 PM. The tactic works, as witnessed by your total buy-in.

 

[firepoint525]

That was a completely sarcastic remark, coming from me. I run the world's greatest Pt 15 AM 24/7 trainwreck.
I like the idea that every station should be as identifiable as a fingerprint, and the more detail, resolution, and individuality each
has can be the only real growth area for radio.
That area is always risky.
There's always someone right there to tell you you're doing it wrong, because it much be done such-and-such way.
That's always the difference between commodities and art.
Only art will take such a risk, and believe that it can be done in any way, simply by will.

Okay, my bad, thanks.

My favorite of the internet stations that I ever heard would have to be the Live 365 re-creation of SM-95, the Nashville AC station of the late '70s/early '80s. But even that re-creation is gone now. :'(

 

[firepoint525]

Really, I hear "deep" cuts all the time on our local AM and occasionally on CBS-FM. They are still broadcasting, last I checked. And you are right, no one plays "deep" cuts anymore, meaning sub position 40's on the Hot 100. It's the "deep" cuts in the Top 20.

105.9 here in Nashville once promised a "deep cut" by the Beatles. It turned out to be "Hey Jude"! This is no joke! The biggest hit ever by the biggest band of all time, and you're calling it a "deep cut"? I suppose you really couldn't refer to it as a "deep" cut at all, since it was originally available only as a single! ;D

 

[firepoint525]

CBS FM does the stranger cuts in "dayparts when nobody listens" such as 7-Midnight on weekends just to strengthen its image of doing things ("image" and "perception") that it can't do in the major dayparts of 6 AM to 7 PM. The tactic works, as witnessed by your total buy-in.

I would settle for that. I would rather hear some of that "forgotten" music during strange and oddball times, as opposed to not hearing it at all. But as far as I know, no one here in Nashville is doing that. Jack-FM has "totally '80s weekends" about once a month or so, when they trot out stuff that they don't normally play, but that is about it.

 

[davideduardo]

And the ones that like that any particular song, will keep listening....it's a cycle.

... until they hear one they hate.

As said many times before, every song is someone's favorite or is liked by someone.

And there are also enough songs that are liked, in some degree, by essentially all potential listeners. Traditional radio stations must program to "us" even while Pandora and most web streams are about "me." Radio has to look for common likes, without dislikes.

Other songs, other WELL-TESTED songs are also disliked by some or may not be someone's favorite either.

The term "well tested" is an oxymoron.

A music test determines, today, what songs the audience / potential audience of a station do want to hear today and don't want to hear... today.

With every day that passes, the test becomes less and less accurate, because changes in market and national mood, over or under play, resting, competition and its playlist, etc., all decrease the usefulness. Programmers learn by experience what the self life of a test is... just as they learn about things like artist burn, the effect of rest, and so on.

Old research is as valuable as the Arbitron 6+ and 12+ numbers...

A station tests, and then they determine when to do it again based on the cost of a test, the market revenues and opportunities, etc.

You can't over-test. And "well tested" is meaningless.

 

[davideduardo]

David assumes that everyone must always listen to a preset selection of songs and that it's fine and tolerated by most everyone.....well it's not.

I "assume" nothing. Having conducted or been part of over 1000 music tests over the last 15 years, I base my statements on the responses of real listeners.

Very few are like you.

 

[davideduardo]

Hi, David, hit this link from 8:00 a.m. until noon CDT tomorrow (Saturday) and let us know what you think. Popular program, well sold, with some deep tracks.

Certainly this is an eclectic show... going from Herb Alpert to The Knack on one show.

But the whole station is in the mid to low one share range, so what they do or do not do is not a terrific example of successful PPM programming. It's very possible that the station does OK financially, as it is a stand-alone, local type operation. But it's also possible that they are simply too cool for the room.

 

[oldies76]

The AM, wherever it is, is not, I'll bet, in the top 10. I'll bet it is not even in the top half of all stations.

KWRP 690 Pueblo, Colorado....and it does not matter whether it's top 10...it's playing music that appeals.

They also broadcast on FM 100.3, same music.

 

[oldies76]

105.9 here in Nashville once promised a "deep cut" by the Beatles. It turned out to be "Hey Jude"! This is no joke! The biggest hit ever by the biggest band of all time, and you're calling it a "deep cut"? I suppose you really couldn't refer to it as a "deep" cut at all, since it was originally available only as a single! ;D

Yeah, it would be a "deep cut" on any of the country stations in Nashville.... ;D

That is strange about "Hey Jude" though..... crazy!

 

[oldies76]

Very few are like you.

Just enjoy oldies like everyone else, only more of them. I do not limit myself to some set list on radio.

 

[Tom Wells]

Hi, David, hit this link from 8:00 a.m. until noon CDT tomorrow (Saturday) and let us know what you think. Popular program, well sold, with some deep tracks.

Certainly this is an eclectic show... going from Herb Alpert to The Knack on one show.

But the whole station is in the mid to low one share range, so what they do or do not do is not a terrific example of successful PPM programming. It's very possible that the station does OK financially, as it is a stand-alone, local type operation. But it's also possible that they are simply too cool for the room.

Too cool?

Something does not compute.

Cool is an open-ended concept.

Herb Alpert and The Knack are both pure pop music.

I'm happy to hear of any station that has such good taste.

 

[davideduardo]

Too cool?

Something does not compute.

Cool is an open-ended concept.

Herb Alpert and The Knack are both pure pop music.

I'm happy to hear of any station that has such good taste.

Adult Alternative stations have not worked in quite a few places because either they are too big and deep for a market that does not generally find much of the music familiar, or because the sound is too eclectic for the lifestyle of the market. This includes the lack of a group that takes delight in the lack of consistency in the format.

Or, in fewer words, too cool for the room.

 

[davideduardo]

Just enjoy oldies like everyone else, only more of them. I do not limit myself to some set list on radio.

Perhaps the bigger issue is in this statement of yours.

"Everyone" does not enjoy oldies.

Only a portion of the population will enjoy pop oldies of the 60's and 70's. Another portion, who like older music, and due to factors ranging from exposure to ethnicity, will enjoy urban classics, Hispanic gold or country. Or standards. Or jazz. But the biggest percentage just does not want any music that isn't from the past few years or perhaps a decade at the most.

 

[johnsummers]

David, your patience knows no limits (lol)...

 

[oldies76]

Perhaps the bigger issue is in this statement of yours.

"Everyone" does not enjoy oldies.

Referring to only the listeners of oldies radio..not the whole enchilada!!

 

[oldies76]

You can't over-test. And "well tested" is meaningless.

"Well-tested" refers to songs that successfully test good over and over again, over many sessions. "My Girl" would fit this category...100 times over.