TCF,
I'm a bit surprised you don't get a better signal on KTNQ and KDIS both of which I've heard well when in San Diego.
I'm a bit surprised you don't get a better signal on KTNQ and KDIS both of which I've heard well when in San Diego.
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How far do your local AM's go during the day?
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I get 740 CFZM and 860 CJBC from Toronto at almost 200 miles during the day over a water path.
From Ottawa I can get 580 CFRA but some cheaper radios throw splatter from WSYR 570. Luckily they don't run HD or 580 would be impossible to receive.
I used to be able to get the 2 Montreal 50kw AM stations 690 and 940 during the day usually in the winter. I can still get 990 every now and then but I remember the 2 silent AMs were more powerful since they were CC.
From Ottawa I can get 580 CFRA but some cheaper radios throw splatter from WSYR 570. Luckily they don't run HD or 580 would be impossible to receive.
I used to be able to get the 2 Montreal 50kw AM stations 690 and 940 during the day usually in the winter. I can still get 990 every now and then but I remember the 2 silent AMs were more powerful since they were CC.
ddsparxx said:
In the Raleigh-Durham area, if WDNC 620 (5kw/1kw dir both Day and Night with diff. patterns) is off-air here, WMAL can easily be heard, along with Charlotte's WFNZ 610 (both a little weak, but listenable). Once you get to Warren County on Interstate 85 NW of Durham, WMAL is fairly listenable even with WDNC operational.
I've heard ESPN 980 in Durham as well, when 980 Winston_Salem is off.
In terms of Atlanta with its poor ground conductivity, only three stations with 50K signals really cover any ground that's noteworthy. Haven't had a chance to sample WGST 640 and WCNN 680, but I do know that WSB 750 daytime coverage goes as far north as Murfreesboro and Knoxville in TN, a little beyond Tuscaloosa in AL. To the south, it reaches the Valdosta area, and to the east, I have received it as far east as the Columbia, SC and the Gastonia, NC areas. I would assume that 640 and 680 would travel similar distances, given they are also 50K. Of course being that WSB is a 50K Clear Channel, it covers most of the country after dark. The others have to back off to between 1K and 10K watts at night, with some seriously directional patterns. WSB is the only AM that's capable of covering the entire market after dark. 790 The Zone usually covers between 100-130 miles during the daytime depending on whether or not there is another station on the same frequency. Like most of the other Atlanta AM's except WSB, it's nighttime coverage is atrocious.
Gar, I live just across the bay from South Padre. I've never pulled a signal from FLA in the daytime. (What are the Tampa signals to look for?) Then again, I need to get a decent radio. Once I do, i'd like to head over to the beach and try some DX. Is the Sangean a radio that you would reccommend?gar fla said:trusty said:Most of the T/SP stations can be heard like locals in the FL panhandle - but you have to be on the beach to get them (salt water paths were gonna show up in this thread eventually).
I'm only speaking of my personal experience but you're right.
Over at the Gulf here, we can get all kinds of stations from the panhandle to and including Texas (KTRH and KCTA) during the day.
If I was ever able to go to Galveston or South Padre Island with my Sangean PR-D5 and the Terk loop, I bet I could pick up at least a weak signal from one or more of the Tampa/St. Pete stations.
BTW, I've seen several of your You Tube videos, I'm not sure that is KCTA you were getting simply because it was en Espanol. Unless this was done on a Saturday afternoon. Otherwise, KCTA's programming is in English
radioman148 said:
What part of San Diego? I'm east of La Mesa & south of El Cajon. KTNQ's signal just doesn't make it inland as well, and KDIS gets splattered or desensed from nearby 1130 and/or 1170.
tfcwings said:
OK I see your point. I was closer to the Pacific when I was there.
In that video, I point out that KCTA is in the background of the stronger Spanish station.
It's always non stop preaching like you hear here.
This was before I even got my Terk loop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsW21MVXM8Q
I use the Sangean PR-D5 and I'm happy with it.
Unfortunately, I heard someone here say it's being discontinued but there still may be some available.
It has a 200 mm ferrite antenna, the same as the Superradio.
radioman148 said:
Unless you are right next to the ocean, KTNQ has no signal of significance in San Diego... and the signal on the coast is at best marginal. KTNQ only has a useful day signal in the northern part of Orange County, and at night it covers none of Orange County at all well.
I lived for years with those problems as PD of KTNQ.
DavidEduardo said:
Thanks for the clarification David. One thing I will say is that KTNQ has a great signal at night into Hawaii. Not good for business unless you're selling pineapples or coconuts. ;D
GRS86 said:
It's thought that the 5 mV/m signal of an AM defines the maximum extent of the useful coverage of an AM and studies of ratings have shown that most listening is in an even more restricted area... the 10 mV/m area... in noisy big metros.
WSB's daytime 5 mV/m coverage area includes roughly 3.4 million persons, while the Atlanta metro has nearly 5.5 million persons in it. In fact, WSB covers all or part of only 12 of the 18 counties in the Atlanta MSA.
While the signal can be heard at greater distances, it is not what today's listener will accept.
Actually, it's a clear channel. Clear Channel with caps is a company.
And, today, with the breakdown of the clears and plenty foreign stations on 750 including a 100 kw station in Caracas, as well as more and more stations on 750 and 760, the useful coverage at night is limited to a few hundred miles around Atlanta... even the FCC does not protect clears beyond about 600 miles IIRC.
Because conductivity in the N. GA area is so bad, WSB suffers from skywave cancellation, sometimes even in the more distant parts of the Atlanta metro. Skywave, today, is not of benefit to AM stations.
radioman148 said:
I became aware of that fact when Miss Hawaii won one of the national beauty pageants. My overnight talk host made some comments about how he did not find her the best selection, he got, literally, dozens of calls from Hawaii from listeners who were angry about the remarks. Apparently KTNQ was popular among Spanish speakers on the east-facing coasts of the islands, and they let us know what they felt. Our manager, born in Hawaii and son of a congressman from Hawaii found it rather amusing!
DavidEduardo said:
David, I've been wondering about a couple things.
So 10 mV/m is the minimum signal needed in a noisy metro area. How much stronger than that does a signal have to get before a trans-oceanic DXer would begin to consider calling them a pest? 40dB? 60dB? 80dB? Also is that how much stronger it would have to get before someone with a good ear would begin to hear splatter on the 1st adjacents, 740 & 760, using a radio with moderately good selectivity, or it would begin to desense the front end of a typical consumer radio?
Also what level would you say would be needed for a copyable signal in a quiet rural environment? I've heard stations whose field strengths I've calculated (using the M3 map and groundwave curves) to be around 0.07 mV/m or less, using only the Tecsun PL-606's built-in ferrite. Using a tuned loop, I've heard stations at midday whose field strength I couldn't calculate because they fell off the bottom of the graph.
Ok I realize they're not WSB, but if clears are being limited to a few hundred miles around the antenna, then why am I getting signals relatively free of co-channel interference near San Diego from KKOB, KOA, KSL, KOKC, as well as numerous other closer ones? I think KOKC is over 1000 miles away from here.
Would a sectionalized antenna, like the type used by KFBK and KSTP, help with combatting skywave cancellation, as well as extend the groundwave service a little to better serve the more distant parts of the metro and suburbs?
DavidEduardo said:
That's a very good analysis of WSB's coverage problems, something that's easy to forget in places where the ground conductivity is high, like the Dallas/Fort Worth area. WBAP can be heard easily way up north toward Oklahoma City and south into the northern part of the Austin area. Their nighttime coverage is noteworthy as well, and I've heard it said that it's the best of all the clears, but of course that's open to debate.
BTW, unless I've missed something the protected contour for clears is still 750 miles.
DavidEduardo said:
That is funny. The station does put out one of the strongest mainland signals to the islands.
tfcwings said:
jd said:
That's the figure I was looking for. Thanks for filling in my "IIRC" which was really "and I recall incorrectly." The redesigned FCC site seems to have pieces down or inaccessible at times... generally when I am looking for something.
I agree on 820. Great daytime, excellent night signal. And not much foreign interference.
Worst clear for daytime coverage has to be WSM, followed closely by WSB. Then I'd say it was a contest between KDKA, WPHT and WHAM. It's interesting to see the ads for these stations from the 30's and 40's touting the famous 38 state coverage in the days when daytime did not matter much and most listening was to the after-dark net shows.
DavidEduardo said:
That's interesting, especially considering their low dial position. I suspect the ground conductivity has something to do with that. How is their daytime signal at 180 miles out? Wouldn't 50kW at 650 kHz still be much better than 500 watts at 1290 kHz? Also what clears would you say have the best daytime coverage?
And, in the greater L.A. / southland / I.E. area, what AM stations that are NOT 50kW non-directional at night cover the ENTIRE area (including Calabasas, Santa Clarita, the I-10/SR-60 merge, Hemet, Temecula, San Clemente, any other areas surrounding L.A. proper where the residential properties are less than about 160 acres each)?
KIRO-AM and KOMO-AM's signals actually blanket almost the entire state of Washington during the day.
KTBI 810 AM, a 50,000 watt AM religious daytimer in Ephrata (Central Washington) also has an amazing signal which can be tuned in as far away as Friday Harbor in Puget Sound (if you can null out KGNW 820)
KTBI 810 AM, a 50,000 watt AM religious daytimer in Ephrata (Central Washington) also has an amazing signal which can be tuned in as far away as Friday Harbor in Puget Sound (if you can null out KGNW 820)
DavidEduardo said:
For another reference point, WSB has a good nighttime skywave signal in my home in western Illinois most nights. I just checked them now (4:30 AM CDT) on a Tecsun PL-310 using 8 kHz r-f bandwidth and the internal loopstick, and they are quite listenable, with little sideband interference. The signal level indicated on the Tecsun was fairly consistent at 38-39 dBu, which was about the same as when the Tecsun was tuned and oriented for best reception of WBBM, Chicago.
Probably the sponsors of the syndicated shows that run on some Class I AM stations overnight don't conclude that their skywave service was not of benefit.
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