How far off can you be?

[bpatrick]

I think 'Mork and Mindy' probably would have lasted as long as it did anyway, even without a format change. I believe the last episode left the door open for a fifth season; Mork and Mindy were time-traveling while trying to stop some villainous alien who had initially been a friend of theirs(played by Murphy Brown's Joe Regalbuto), but the episode ended with them leaving the stone age, and 'apparently' headed for their own time...the last image of the episode was a cave-drawing of the two of them, with no other indication where they would end up.
Interestingly, 'Mork and Mindy' 's lead-out that first season, was moved, and eventually cancelled, for losing too much of the lead-in audience...'What's Happening!!!'

"Laverne & Shirley" had barely outrated "Happy Days" for
a couple of years, but "Happy Days" was beginning to show
its age in 1979; after all, it had been on since January 1974,
and its core audience was already beginning to desert it (although
the coup de grace wouldn't be delivered until 1983, in the form
of NBC's "The A-Team").

ABC made three dumb moves that year: moving "L&S" to Thursday,
"Mork & Mindy" to Sunday (where, to most of the industry's surprise,
"Archie Bunker's Place" cleaned its clock), and "Fantasy Island" to
Friday. Although all three shows moved back to their old timeslots,
only "Fantasy Island" regained most of its former ratings strength.
But Steve Allen wrote at the time, that even if ABC had never moved
"Mork & Mindy" its ratings would, in all likelihood, have dropped anyway,
because Robin Williams is one of those comedians best taken in small doses,
because he's so hyper when he's on.

"The Associates," I think, suffered from being on the wrong network;
it was another case of ABC trying to do a CBS-type sitcom (although somebody
might argue that "Barney Miller" and "Taxi" were CBS-type shows--"Barney Miller"
gained an audience after Time and Newsweek did stories about an early episode
where Wojo fell in love with a prostitute played by Linda Lavin, and "Taxi" had
the benefit of the "Three's Company" lead-in, which helped both shows survive).
Also, I don't think anyone expected CBS to dominate Sunday night so thoroughly.
That season was full of surprises.

I remember that "Angie" was "Mork & Mindy"'s leadout in the second half of the
1978-79 season, finished #5 for the season (behind "M&M"), and was expected to
be in the top 15 for the 1979-80 season. In the fall of '79 ABC moved "Angie" to
Tuesdays, behind "Happy Days," but as that leadin faltered, so did "Angie." In turn,
she moved to Mondays for a few weeks before "That's Incredible" debuted (as did
"Laverne & Shirley); in the summer of '80 she was back on Thursday, again paired
with "Mork & Mindy," but the show never regained its ratings strength and didn't return in the
fall of '80 (Robert Hays, who played Angie's doctor-husband, went on to bigger things,
playing in "Airplane!").

 

[trusty]

I wonder how many stations that had switched away from NBC to ABC in the late 70s were kicking themselves by 1985/1986?

OK, I'll guess: All of them.
[grin]

 

[SteveRichards]

KOMU-TV in Columbia, Mo. ditched NBC for ABC in 1982, after most of the ABC shows had really lost their luster, but a few years before NBC claimed the top spot. At the time, NBC was relegated to former ABC affiliate and UHF KCBJ-TV. KOMU returned to NBC, I believe on New Year's Day 1986, with ABC returning to KMIZ (KCBJ's new and current calls).

 

[71dude]

"The Ropers" was also a Top 10 show for ABC in the spring of '79 that tanked when it moved to Saturday night in the fall. Why ABC didn't keep it near "Three's Company" is a mystery - they could have aired it at 8:30 on Tuesdays and left "Angie" on Thursday night. Of course maybe they realized it was a travesty and wanted to get rid of it. Nothing worked for ABC before 9 on Saturdays in those days.

 

[bpatrick]

TV Guide once ranked "The Ropers" among the 50 worst
shows of all time. I have to agree.

 

[mleach]

TV Guide once ranked "The Ropers" among the 50 worst
shows of all time. I have to agree.

And Norman Fell, Audrey Lindney and Jeffery Tambor would all agree with you. They hated "The Ropers" even though there were the STARS of "The Ropers". Legend has it that late one night back in the 90's while in Washington DC, Jeffery Tambor was flipping through the channels only to find "The Ropers" airing on WTTG channel 5. Tambor calls up WTTG, cusses them out and demands they yank the " god-damned piece of sh*t" right now..which BTW WTTG ended up doing,

This incident with WTTG I believe was used as a stroyline for Tambor's later series....HBO's The Larry Sanders Show. Anyway Jeffery Tambor ( and Norman & Audrey ) must had been paid very well to have had stayed with a show they hated doing in the first place.

 

[Tim from Springfield IL]

TV Guide once ranked "The Ropers" among the 50 worst
shows of all time. I have to agree.

And Norman Fell, Audrey Lindney and Jeffery Tambor would all agree with you. They hated "The Ropers" even though there were the STARS of "The Ropers". Legend has it that late one night back in the 90's while in Washington DC, Jeffery Tambor was flipping through the channels only to find "The Ropers" airing on WTTG channel 5. Tambor calls up WTTG, cusses them out and demands they yank the " god-damned piece of sh*t" right now..which BTW WTTG ended up doing,

This incident with WTTG I believe was used as a stroyline for Tambor's later series....HBO's The Larry Sanders Show. Anyway Jeffery Tambor ( and Norman & Audrey ) must had been paid very well to have had stayed with a show they hated doing in the first place.

Were the episodes of "The Ropers" included for a time in the "Three's Company" syndication package (with the title "Three's Company's Friends the Ropers"). That might explain why the Ropers aired on WTTG in the '90s.

 

[bpatrick]

Yes to both the title and the fact that "The
Ropers" was syndicated. With so few episodes,
they couldn't have appeared often in the syndication
rotation.

 

[EnbyCee]

And why not? In the 1979-80 season "Real People"
was NBC's highest-rated show and maintained good
ratings until that era of "reality" shows ended in the
mid-'80s. I would be tempted to argue that, aside from
Carson, three shows kept NBC afloat in the Silverman era:
"Little House On The Prairie," "Real People," and "Diff'rent
Strokes" (although a few others, like "Facts Of Life," "CHiPs,"
and "Quincy," might make this list). "The A-Team" comes
from the Tinker/Tartikoff era and is usually considered the
beginning of NBC's turnaround.

"Hill Street Blues" was considered part of the beginning of the turnaround too, right? Although it's ratings were horribly low its first year..

 

[Tim from Springfield IL]

And why not? In the 1979-80 season "Real People"
was NBC's highest-rated show and maintained good
ratings until that era of "reality" shows ended in the
mid-'80s. I would be tempted to argue that, aside from
Carson, three shows kept NBC afloat in the Silverman era:
"Little House On The Prairie," "Real People," and "Diff'rent
Strokes" (although a few others, like "Facts Of Life," "CHiPs,"
and "Quincy," might make this list). "The A-Team" comes
from the Tinker/Tartikoff era and is usually considered the
beginning of NBC's turnaround.

"Hill Street Blues" was considered part of the beginning of the turnaround too, right? Although it's ratings were horribly low its first year..

You could also add the second seasons (1983-84) of "Cheers" and "Family Ties" to that list of shows that helped NBC turn things around from worst to first by 1985-86 (with Cosby providing the game-winning home run in its debut in 1984)--although both shows originally had weak ratings in their first seasons (IIRC wasn't there a week in Cheers' first season that the show was dead last in the ratings, or is that another one of those urban legends?).

 

[onairb]

"The Ropers" was also a Top 10 show for ABC in the spring of '79 that tanked when it moved to Saturday night in the fall. Why ABC didn't keep it near "Three's Company" is a mystery - they could have aired it at 8:30 on Tuesdays and left "Angie" on Thursday night. Of course maybe they realized it was a travesty and wanted to get rid of it. Nothing worked for ABC before 9 on Saturdays in those days.

Granted this info comes from Wikipedia, but:
Norman Fell was reluctant to leave 'Three's Company' for a spinoff, in case the new show tanked and ABC cancelled it quickly. He agreed to do the show on the condition that ABC would give it a full 12 months from its premeire date in March of '79 before making any decision on the show's future.
Of course, ABC execs were 'If it's fixed, break it' mode in '79, and 'The Ropers' did tank; despite Fell's pleas to give the show a better time slot, it remained on hiatus.
Interestingly, it returned to the air only for a few weeks in the spring of '80, by which time the 12-month deadline had passed, and ABC formally cancelled 'The Ropers' in April.
There were some negotiations about Norman Fell and Audra Lindley returning to 'Three's Company', but these were short-lived, since Don Knotts, as Furley, had become so well-established, (and ironically, more popular than the Ropers), that he would not have been dropped, and there was no room in the show's real-life salary structure, or even the wacky fictional inner logic, for three landlords AND three roomamates!

 

[onairb]

And why not? In the 1979-80 season "Real People"
was NBC's highest-rated show and maintained good
ratings until that era of "reality" shows ended in the
mid-'80s. I would be tempted to argue that, aside from
Carson, three shows kept NBC afloat in the Silverman era:
"Little House On The Prairie," "Real People," and "Diff'rent
Strokes" (although a few others, like "Facts Of Life," "CHiPs,"
and "Quincy," might make this list). "The A-Team" comes
from the Tinker/Tartikoff era and is usually considered the
beginning of NBC's turnaround.

"Hill Street Blues" was considered part of the beginning of the turnaround too, right? Although it's ratings were horribly low its first year..

You could also add the second seasons (1983-84) of "Cheers" and "Family Ties" to that list of shows that helped NBC turn things around from worst to first by 1985-86 (with Cosby providing the game-winning home run in its debut in 1984)--although both shows originally had weak ratings in their first seasons (IIRC wasn't there a week in Cheers' first season that the show was dead last in the ratings, or is that another one of those urban legends?).

I've seen claims that 'Cheers' was the lowest-rated show of the 1982-83 season, on all networks, not just NBC. I believe this was where the urban legend came from, but there was at least one episode that year that finished dead last among all shows that week.

 

[bpatrick]

IIRC, "Hill Street Blues" was the lowest-rated show in all of
primetime in 1980-81; going back even farther, "60 Minutes"
was the lowest-rated primetime offering for three years (1968-71).
But look what happened to them (and "Cheers"). Sometimes it pays
for network execs to show some patience.

 

[bpatrick]

The September 15, 1979 issue of TV Guide featured a prediction
of the top 15 shows for 1979-80. Apparently former CBS programmer
Michael Dann, who compiled this list, thought--like most people--that
ABC would continue on top. We know that didn't happen; CBS regained
the number-one slot that year. Below is Dann's list, with the show's
actual finish in parentheses (source: Brooks and Marsh), then the actual
list.

Mike Dann's List:

8. The Associates (ABC) (canceled)

"The Associates" doesn't surprise me that it made the list since afterall that show ( early Martin Short ) was a darling with the critics. Even those who had spoke out against TV loved this show. Of course what the critics loved doesn't allway mean the viewers would love it too. Take for example the early 1979 NBC sitcom "Turnabout" which starred Sharon Gless & John Schuck. US Magazine for example had called "Turnabout" "the best sitcom ever, even better than I Love Lucy !!!"

"Turnabout" lasted just seven episodes and is just about forgotten today.

Of course it works the other way too..critics hating a TV show but it ends up being loved by many viewers. Can we say Gilligan's Island.....

Remember NBC's 1980 dramedy "United States"? Didn't think so. The critics said things like "It's just like someone put a camera in my bedroom"; the show was mostly about a married couple (Beau Bridges and Helen Shaver) talking and trying to avoid an argument. I think it lasted eight weeks and had the unbelievable time slot of 10:30 (ET) on Tuesdays.

 

[71dude]

Does anyone remember "Detective School"? It was another flash-in-the-pan ABC sitcom in 1979 that starred James Gregory, Randolph Mantooth and LaWanda Page. It was a hit on Tuesday night in the summer and was rushed onto the fall schedule on Saturday night (after "The Ropers") where it died.

Other ABC flops from 1979-80:
Out of the Blue
A New Kind of Family
240-Robert
The Lazarus Syndrome
One in a Million
Goodtime Girls
B.A.D. Cats
Tenspeed & Brownshoe
When the Whistle Blows
Stone

At least "That's Incredible!" was a hit.

 

[mleach]

Does anyone remember "Detective School"? It was another flash-in-the-pan ABC sitcom in 1979 that starred James Gregory, Randolph Mantooth and LaWanda Page. It was a hit on Tuesday night in the summer and was rushed onto the fall schedule on Saturday night (after "The Ropers") where it died.

Other ABC flops from 1979-80:
Out of the Blue
A New Kind of Family
240-Robert
The Lazarus Syndrome
One in a Million
Goodtime Girls
B.A.D. Cats
Tenspeed & Brownshoe
When the Whistle Blows
Stone

At least "That's Incredible!" was a hit.

I believe the sole reason why ABC gave the ok to "Goodtime Girls" ( a show based in the 40's ) in the first place was based on the so called "planned success" of Steven Spielberg's 1979 Dan Ackroyd/John Belushi comedy "1941". Hey..Spielberg..Ackroyd..Belushi...how could it miss? ABC should had waited. LOL

Randolph Mantooth wanted to break away from that "Emergency" image, as I can recall he begged for a sitcom...that was "Detective School". Well there is always "Emergency"..one need not ask why Julie London & Bobby Troup never did do a sitcom after they had "Left" Rampart Hosptial.

"One In A Million"..I have heard it said in the past that had it been Danielle Spenser ( "Dee" from "Whats Happening" ) in the title role rather than Shirley
Hemphill..this show would had been a success. Unfortunately it wouldn't be until AFTER "Whats Happening NOW", that the producers and writers lhad learned something that many viewers had already known. That "Dee" really was the most popular character on "What's Happening".

The other shows I have faint memories..other than that I was sick in bed from food poisioning ( thank YOU Burger Chef !!!! )..watching "Out of the Blue" but...alas..I had spent more time in the bathroom than watching it. UGH !!!

 

[gr8oldies]

Norman Lear couldn't quite duplicate his 70s success in the 80s and 90s; a couple of projects that flopped were "704 Hauser St", where a black family moves into the old Bunker House, this time, Dad (played by John Amos) was a liberal with a conservative son.(one episode had Bob Schieffer in a cameo interviewing the son). The son of course has a white girlfriend, which I guess "all" black conservatives supposedly did at the time. To Lear's credit, he called on Armstrong Williams to record monologues into a tape recorder to try to get the right words into the son's mouth..even sent a few episodes to Rush Limbaugh to critique. Joey Stivic (Meathead and Gloria's son) just happened to live in the neighborhood and dropped by. Think this show lasted four episodes.

Then there was "Sunday Dinner". Wish I could remember something about it.

 

[wbhist]

Randolph Mantooth wanted to break away from that "Emergency" image, as I can recall he begged for a sitcom...that was "Detective School". Well there is always "Emergency"..one need not ask why Julie London & Bobby Troup never did do a sitcom after they had "Left" Rampart Hosptial.

Or Kevin Tighe.

 

[trusty]

I really miss Cop Rock.

 

[gr8oldies]

I really miss Cop Rock.

Now THAT was a show! So far out of the box that it rolled off the truck and down the mountain!