How much is a NYC signal worth?

[secondchoice]

If WFME's signal can not be upgraded, how much is it worth?

Can someone buy WBLS and "flip" it into something else. Would they be better off billing wise? Pittsburgh lost WAMO but there is a big difference in the demos of NYC and Pitt.

What would be a "fair" price for either?

I am assuming a "cash" sale, the buyer does the financing if needed.

 

[reelyreal]

WFME will probably go in the $50 million range, according to Scott Fybush.

 

[Radio-X]

CBS paid $8 million for 107.9 in DC/Baltimore. That covers about 5 million people. If you go strictly by $$ per potential listener, that would come out to about $24 million for the 15 million NYC market.

I'd guess closer to 35-40 million since (on paper) it is a full-market B signal and it is a presence in the nation's largest media market. You also have to factor in the fact most the equipment needs replacement and probably is held up with chewing gum. Will the transmitter/studio site be included in the price? Remember the sale could be for just the license, and WFME-TV will still need the room there after the FM's departure!

Radio-X

 

[nd2023]

WFME TV could be for sale next

 

[davideduardo]

CBS paid $8 million for 107.9 in DC/Baltimore. That covers about 5 million people. If you go strictly by $$ per potential listener, that would come out to about $24 million for the 15 million NYC market.

But stations are not sold by population, but by market size. 107.9 is neither a good Baltimore station nor a good DC station. It's a rimshot, but good enough for a niche format like the Spanish language offering that has moved to it.

'd guess closer to 35-40 million since (on paper) it is a full-market B signal and it is a presence in the nation's largest media market. You also have to factor in the fact most the equipment needs replacement and probably is held up with chewing gum.

The Family station is not a full market B... it is a suburban B with poor coverage of Manhattan and several of the boroughs, and non-competitive on Long Island.

The price is likely above range of what you say, though, around what Scott Fybush estimates (based on the New York Times and Emmis deals, valued in the $60 to $100 million range). If deals could be made to move the site to Manhattan, we are talking about many millions in costs and payments to other stations.

An FM transmitter is in the range of a nice Mercedes Benz (a lot depends on antenna gain vs. transmitter power) and the related equipment... even the antenna and transmission line will at most triple the cost... add an auxiliary transmitter and such, and you are still way under a half-million, relative peanuts in a market like NYC. Studios along with offices in Manhattan can double that, though.

Will the transmitter/studio site be included in the price? Remember the sale could be for just the license, and WFME-TV will still need the room there after the FM's departure!

If the buyer thinks there is a chance to get to a better site, then they likely would do an intermediate term lease for the existing location. In fact, part of the purchase price might be contingent on getting a move to the ESB or the Times Square location... or such a move might trigger a bonus payment, which is a common device used in move-in purchases.

 

[DanStrassberg]

If WFME ultimately changes hands for ~$50 million, as has been speculated here, it says that WBLS, which is also a full B serving the New York market but, AFAIK, doesn't have WFME's transmitter-site problems, will go for much more. How much, in today's market? $100 million? Since station values are a fraction of what they were at their peak (around 2007, IIRC), did any New York City full B FMs change hands at that time and how much did they sell for? If, indeed stations are currently selling for 20 to 25% of what they sold for when values were at the peak, wouldn't that say that, if values ever return to what they once were, WBLS might be worth $400 million to $500 million and WFME would be worth about half as much. Does that make sense? If so, why? If not, why not? And if not, what prices could we expect to see?

 

[Ai4i]

As JMTillery once explained to me, the value of a station will shoot way above its stick value if it is booking well.
The best deal on the face of the planet had to have been $11½ million for WCAA/WQXR.
We understand that two stations and three entities were involved, but we will never understand how stations Saint Louis and Miami which cover a fraction as many folks, transferred at about the same time for twice that figure.

 

[davideduardo]

.
The best deal on the face of the planet had to have been $11½ million for WCAA/WQXR.
We understand that two stations and three entities were involved, but we will never understand how stations Saint Louis and Miami which cover a fraction as many folks, transferred at about the same time for twice that figure.

The apparent double deal for 96.3 and 105.9 is more than it seems on the surface.

The NYT did not want to see ended its tradition of providing classical music to NYC. So they did not sell 96.3 to just anyone... they sold it to about the only party who would give solution to continuing the format.

Univision paid $33 million cash plus the license for 105.9 for 96.3. The NYT sold 105.9 (which was never transferred to their name) to the non-com corporation that now has it for $11.5 million, approximately 10% of what Univision paid for it in 1999. Obviously, the NYT sold 105.9 for a below-market-price to insure that classical would continue and that the image of the Times would not be hurt in any way.

So, if we really wanted to put a real value on either station, it would be much higher.

More realistically, if we break the complex Emmis / Merlin deal into pieces, we see that the value of 100% of 101.9 is somewhere north of $100 million... a more reasonable benchmark for a NYC FM.

 

[davideduardo]

Since station values are a fraction of what they were at their peak (around 2007, IIRC), did any New York City full B FMs change hands at that time and how much did they sell for?

Last year Emmis sold WEMP and two Chicago FMs for what comes down to about $198 million. Of that, probably $110 million or so is for the New York FM.

If, indeed stations are currently selling for 20 to 25% of what they sold for when values were at the peak, wouldn't that say that, if values ever return to what they once were, WBLS might be worth $400 million to $500 million and WFME would be worth about half as much. Does that make sense? If so, why? If not, why not? And if not, what prices could we expect to see?

In LA, an inferior Class B went for $250 million around 2000. It's now worth about $60 million. A lower-power Mt Wilson FM was "estimated" to have been allocated at $400 million when Radio One bought it around that time, too. It sold, in 2008, for $137 million, or about a third of what it was worth in 2000.

So, from what I see, while inferior facilities might be devalued by 70% to even 75%, good ones are off about 50% to 66%.

 

[scott5]

What about an AM station like WOR 50k watts directional and non clear channel ? I've heard the # 100 million is that correct ?

 

[Gregg]

WOR is probably the fourth or fifth best AM signal in NYC, behind non-directional WFAN, WABC and WCBS, and about the same as 1130 WBBR. It puts an excellent signal over NJ, NYC, Hudson Valley and much of Long Island and Fairfield County. In Philadelphia, when you hit the scan button on your car radio, it usually stops on 710.

But I doubt it would sell for $100 million today. AM Radio just doesn't have that earning potential. And it will decrease as time goes by. Reports are the Buckley Family has turned down several good offers for the station. Now the second generation of Buckleys are running the station.


Gregg
[email protected]

 

[scott5]

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Now the second generation of Buckleys are ruining the station.
[/size][/size]

 

[Ai4i]

Somebody please tell me, I know that William F, Jr. Was involved with an NYC FM a few years ago.
Is he from the same Buckley family?

 

[davideduardo]

What about an AM station like WOR 50k watts directional and non clear channel ? I've heard the # 100 million is that correct ?

WOR is no longer a prime biller, although it obviously makes money. I'd peg a price around $35 to $40 million, and that is an optimistic range.

With several of the trades calling 2011 "the year of the talk move to FM" the question is why anyone would want to pay a lot of money for a band that is aging and for the most part falling out of the money demos in appeal.

Stations like WFAN and WINS and WOR and even lower-billing WABC are worth more money because they make good money. But they are not going to grow, and eventually alternate music distribution channels and technology will either drive them to FM or they will go into decline.

WOR is on a clear channel... just a shared one (WOR is a 1-B in the old nomenclature). 710 in Seattle and 710 in NY were the initial dominant stations. WOR tailored its directional pattern to the population in the 30's, including coverage of Philadelphia... and advertised on the front page of Broadcasting in that era touting that coverage. 1130 and 1560 are also clear channels.

 

[ansky212]

1130 and 1560 are also clear channels.

Are you sure about 1130 being a clear channel? That station has terrible reception west of exit 35 on I-80 in NJ. Last time I listened in that area there was another 1130 bleeding in (sounded like a sports station).

 

[w9wi]

Are you sure about 1130 being a clear channel?

Yes, it is. To be a bit verbose...

Clear channels: 540 640-780 800-900 940 990-1140 1160-1220 1500-1580
Regional channels: 550-630 790 910-930 950-980 1150 1250-1330 1350-1390 1410-1440 1460-1480 1590-1700
Local channels: 1230 1240 1340 1400 1450 1490

WBBR is a Class A station, which means both its groundwave and much of its skywave coverage is protected from interference. However, it is required to protect the other two Class A stations on 1130. (KWKH Shreveport, Louisiana and CKWX Vancouver, B.C.) Hence, a null in their signal to the west -- which means they don't have as much coverage in that direction to protect -- and they aren't protected from interference in areas where they aren't deemed to provide enough signal to provide useful service.

My bet on the sports station would be Detroit.

 

[DanStrassberg]

My bet on the sports station would be Detroit.

Probably, but it's not the only bet. Not sure about WISN's format, but the 1130 in Minneapolis is also all sports/sports talk. The Detroit, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis stations all have similar night patterns (very complex nine-tower teardrops aimed north-northeast). Detroit and Milwaukee run 10 kW at night; Minneapolis runs 25 kW. All three stations run 50 kW by day with patterns that are greatly relaxed versions of the nighttime teardrops. The reason for the abundance of high-power Class B AMs on 1130 in the midwest was that 1130 was for many years the only Class IB channel that had three Class I(B) stations in North America: New York, Shreveport, and Vancouver BC. Each protected the other two, leaving a large area of the midwest with no nighttime skywave signal that required protection. Minneapolis (then, WDGY) was, I believe, the first Class II AM on 1130 in the midwest. Detroit and Milwaukee were not far behind, however.

 

[davideduardo]

Are you sure about 1130 being a clear channel?

Yes, it is. To be a bit verbose...

Clear channels: 540 640-780 800-900 940 990-1140 1160-1220 1500-1580

The 1 A Clears had one non-directional and fully protected station on them:

640-670, 700, 720, 750-780, 820-840, 870-890, 1020-1040, 1100, 1120, 1160, 1180, 1200, 1210

Others, like 1130, had several 1 B stations, usually protecting each other like 1560 in NY and Bakersfield or 1110 in Charlotte and Omaha. A couple, like 850, 810 and 680, had one nondirectional 1B clear and one or more directionals... such as KGO and WGY, KOA and WHDH, KNBR and WPTF

"Clear Channel" does not mean "nondirectional." But two of the original Clear Channels that could be non-directional intentionally directionalized. Pop quiz time.

And one of the 1 B and one of the 1 A channels had synchronous repeaters to improve coverage that are now gone. And yet another 1-B added a synchronous repeater to fill it's night null only "recently."

 

[Ai4i]

The two directional-by-choice stations would be adjacent to WCBS and adjacent to KDKA.
One of the 1-B's with a night time only 1KW synchronous would have been between Shelby & Cherryville, NC.
Right ???

 

[davideduardo]

The two directional-by-choice stations would be adjacent to WCBS and adjacent to KDKA.
One of the 1-B's with a night time only 1KW synchronous would have been between Shelby & Cherryville, NC.
Right ???

Yep on all counts. KKOB also has a syncronous transmitter in the Santa Fe night null... still. And the one next to KDKA had WBZA in Springfield, also on 1030, shut down so they could buy a 7th major market Am back in the days.