How much of the lyrics in popular music are genuine?

[TheBigA]

Let me clarify. When I talked about mgmt. knowing music, I mean the program director or music librarian.

You said "station management,' and that to me is either GM or OM. The PD and MD are below that. If the station is a chart reporter, they are the people who directly interact with record labels and artists, so knowing music is part of their job description. It's not unusual for a popular PD to get quoted in the trades recommending songs. If they are consistent in their support of music, it's not unusual to see a PD make the transition to a record label. So yes, you can be confident that anyone making music decisions at a major radio station knows music.

In fact several colleges have combined their music business schools with their broadcasting schools because the two departments are so intertwined.

 

[DavidEduardo]

You said "station management,' and that to me is either GM or OM. The PD and MD are below that. If the station is a chart reporter, they are the people who directly interact with record labels and artists, so knowing music is part of their job description. It's not unusual for a popular PD to get quoted in the trades recommending songs. If they are consistent in their support of music, it's not unusual to see a PD make the transition to a record label. So yes, you can be confident that anyone making music decisions at a major radio station knows music.

In my experience, the management triangle of stations for many decades was the General Manager, the Sales Manager and the Program Director. Many thought it also might include the Business Manager and Chief Engineer at larger stations.

Only since consolidation and the creation of large clusters has the Operations Manager become common, and then only in larger markets and where the GM comes from the sales side.

Few stations really have a Music Director, and when they do it is an air talent who has the title and talks occasionally to the record ducks.

In fact several colleges have combined their music business schools with their broadcasting schools because the two departments are so intertwined.

That seems totally illogical.

 

[TheBigA]

Few stations really have a Music Director, and when they do it is an air talent who has the title and talks occasionally to the record ducks.

If a station is a chart reporter, they need to have someone assigned to take calls from record labels. As you say, it can be a DJ who is designated to handle those calls, or it can be one person who handles other formats. We may only be talking about 1500 radio stations, but they're the ones with the most audience in the largest markets. The point is the stations that matter have people who know music.

That seems totally illogical.

Maybe to you. But in today's world of radio & records, the two intersect in powerful ways. Bob Wilson knew what he was doing when he named his paper R&R. Anyone in music needs some form of media to get their music to the people. Anyone in media benefits from knowing issues in the music business, especially given the desire by the music business to collect royalties from broadcast radio. The more these two groups know about each other, the stronger their industries will be in the digital age. All radio conferences, from the NAB to CRS, have strong music involvement.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

You said "station management,' and that to me is either GM or OM. The PD and MD are below that. If the station is a chart reporter, they are the people who directly interact with record labels and artists, so knowing music is part of their job description. It's not unusual for a popular PD to get quoted in the trades recommending songs. If they are consistent in their support of music, it's not unusual to see a PD make the transition to a record label. So yes, you can be confident that anyone making music decisions at a major radio station knows music.

In fact several colleges have combined their music business schools with their broadcasting schools because the two departments are so intertwined.

Thank you ! I get what is going on here now. I will explain it below. Truthfully, I hear what you are saying - I appreciate the clarification. - Daryl

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Songs are a part of radio on the FM dial thus included in the National radio forum.

I used to agree w/ you and believe what you said. But threads on personal choices about songs, or nostalgia about music and the old days, belong in topics indirectly related to the broadcasting profession. Or maybe topics not related to broadcasting at all.
This forum is for topics nation-wide related to radio station management and the broadcasting profession.

If you ( or me, or anyone) starts a thread about nostalgia and music genres that says, "Why doesn't station K - - - play such and such an oldie, or a novelty song, or a sad song, or something like that, it sounds like complaining about station management.
As CT said above, it sounds like listeners having a "Gotcha" moment by criticizing people who work in broadcasting as a profession.

I didn't realize that until CT wrote that message.

They very often cannot play what their own personal tastes in music are, because they have a system of deriving quantitative statistics by surveying their demographic audience. They have to sell advertising time to their sponsors, so they have to make sure they have ears tuned in.

You and I might like novelty songs, or sad songs, or whatever. But if their questionnaires for their audience members, or their ratings, or their record surveys for that particular city show that novelty songs wear off pretty fast, then they don't play it.

That's not a conspiracy to deprive you and me of listening pleasure. They are trying to appeal to the general public in their market.
You and I want to talk sentimentally about "the old days" and "songs that we knew and loved." But, the light just dawned on me. ( Hello. ). This isn't the place to be emotional or sentimental about the "old days."

It's a forum to discuss current topics in station management and ownership -- not our favorite songs from the wayback machine. -- Daryl

 

[Deleted User]

every time Taylor Swift breaks up with a boyfriend we get a new single out of it

 

[tall_guy1]

In my experience, the management triangle of stations for many decades was the General Manager, the Sales Manager and the Program Director. Many thought it also might include the Business Manager and Chief Engineer at larger stations.

Only since consolidation and the creation of large clusters has the Operations Manager become common, and then only in larger markets and where the GM comes from the sales side.

Few stations really have a Music Director, and when they do it is an air talent who has the title and talks occasionally to the record ducks.

So upper management pretty much runs the show on most stations' playlists?

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

So upper management pretty much runs the show on most stations' playlists?

It's not a conspiracy. Are you seeing how your remark might be interpreted as criticism? 😊

 

[tall_guy1]

It's not a conspiracy. Are you seeing how your remark might be interpreted as criticism? 😊

No, just curiosity.

 

[TheBigA]

So upper management pretty much runs the show on most stations' playlists?

What do you mean by "upper management?"

 

[DavidEduardo]

If a station is a chart reporter, they need to have someone assigned to take calls from record labels. As you say, it can be a DJ who is designated to handle those calls, or it can be one person who handles other formats. We may only be talking about 1500 radio stations, but they're the ones with the most audience in the largest markets. The point is the stations that matter have people who know music.

No, they have people who take on certain titles when they have to, even if they don't have any responsibility. The record ducks know who to talk to and who makes the decisions, no matter what names are on a filing with MediaBase. I was interim PD three times at KLVE in LA for various reasons and I forget who I listed as "music director" but I made the music decisions and did the adds.

Maybe to you. But in today's world of radio & records, the two intersect in powerful ways. Bob Wilson knew what he was doing when he named his paper R&R.

Yes, he knew that the Gavin and R&R and Hamilton model was defective as the ad money came from the music side. Helped by his partner, some guy named Kardashian, he put enough record biz news in the early Radio & Records to get industry money, but as soon as it was established, he changed it to just "R&R" and most new subscribers did not even know what that stood for.

Anyone in music needs some form of media to get their music to the people. Anyone in media benefits from knowing issues in the music business, especially given the desire by the music business to collect royalties from broadcast radio.

But that contradicts what you say about R&R; there was no label/artist royalty campaign in the late 70's and R&R stopped publishing abut a decade and a half ago, well before there was any such effort.

The more these two groups know about each other, the stronger their industries will be in the digital age. All radio conferences, from the NAB to CRS, have strong music involvement.

The only thing you typically see at NAB is the normal session or two about music rights, some talk about music biz relationships in some of the programming sessions, and the side meetings (like the SBE side meetings) of the RMLC. NAB has typically been more management and engineering and less about programming... with a side order of sales. I'd go to NAB for management sessions and visit the booths for services and gear.

CRS is format specific and included management and programming. Because it is format specific, it's a combination of management and programming so the entertainment is format-specific based and includes showcases and stars. When NAB might have had Bill Cosby as the "big affair" entertainer, CRS in that pre-consolidation era might have had Randy Travis. I'd go tCRS mostly to meet with Phil Hunt and Rusty Walker... it was basically a programming meeting for me.

Again, if this was so important, then you would not have had the PD of the then #1 station in LA having a phone message that ended, "if your are calling to promote an artist or label, you can hang up now" after telling all others to leave a message.

 

[DavidEduardo]

So upper management pretty much runs the show on most stations' playlists?

The program director runs the local show. When a company has more than one station in a format in different markets, either an outside format consultant or a national PD or national format-specific PD will supervise the playlists along with the local person.

Local radio stations and clusters don't have many management levels. In fact, at the traditional single station or AM/FM prior to consolidation, you had the General Manager, with the PD, Sales Manager, Chief Engineer and Accountant/Business Manger (and sometimes an Office Manager). Traffic usually reported to the Sales Manager. With consolidation, most larger clusters got an Operations Manager (but not all) and then the GM and PD and sometimes the Sales Manager report to corporate or regional managers... who then report to the top corporate CEO / COO and corporate heads of sales, engineering, finance and programming. Of course, every company has its own uniqueness of structure, but they all fall in this general area.

If you go back to the days of McLendon and Storz*, the creators and original proponents of the Top 40 format, there was coordination at the corporate level, but some local autonomy at the local level. By the time we got less expensive phone conference calls, the "national PD" got more and more day to day supervisory control.

For example, to show how cheap connectivity influenced tight control, when I was a GM at Metroplex in the early 80's, when we go MCI for cheaper long distance (you had to dial an access number locally, then the conference number... lots of digits) we started having national PD and GM meetings.

When the AT&T children began to have cheaper rate plans, we stations did even more conference calls. And then we got the Internet and we have way too many such calls.

If you thought that the jocks picked the music on rated market hit-based formats, that has not been the case on significant current-based formats such as Top 40/CHR, R&B/Urban, Country, Regional Mexican, A/C, Latin Tropical, etc., that has not been prevalent since jocks like Pete Myers and Alan Freed left the air over 60 years ago.

* We are talking about the earliest 50's there.

 

[TheBigA]

No, they have people who take on certain titles when they have to, even if they don't have any responsibility. The record ducks know who to talk to and who makes the decisions, no matter what names are on a filing with MediaBase. I was interim PD three times at KLVE in LA for various reasons and I forget who I listed as "music director" but I made the music decisions and did the adds.

The point is there is someone at the radio station who is a music person. That's what the question was. The person listens to the music, goes to concerts, and is conversant enough to carry on a conversation with someone at a record label. If that label person suspects the radio guy is a fake, that he doesn't actually have any responsibility, and that what he says is a lie, he can complain to Mediabase and have that station's reporting status pulled. I've seen it done. The world changed with monitored reporting, and the labels can see playlists and adds online factually, not like in the old days.

 

[DavidEduardo]

The point is there is someone at the radio station who is a music person. That's what the question was. The person listens to the music, goes to concerts, and is conversant enough to carry on a conversation with someone at a record label. If that label person suspects the radio guy is a fake, that he doesn't actually have any responsibility, and that what he says is a lie, he can complain to Mediabase and have that station's reporting status pulled. I've seen it done. The world changed with monitored reporting, and the labels can see playlists and adds online factually, not like in the old days.

The majority of stations did reasonably honest reporting prior to electronic monitoring as PDs understood that playing stiffs reduced ratings and resulted in job loss!

My point in this is that most stations today have nearly all the music decisions based with the PD. Some have a music committee and they jointly listen to the most probably adds and make a decision (I always had staff members who were knowledgeable but tried to have the committee reflect the target audience to some extent).

 

[ixnay]

They got crazy little women there, too.

I liked Wilbert Harrison's version until I heard the Beatles' interpretation of Little Richard's version. I've LR's own rendition a couple of times also.

 

[ixnay]

Who knew an industrial small city in Indiana would inspire a hit song

The city that spawned this MLB pitcher...

Tom Underwood Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Tom Underwood. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

... and in the state that wanted R. Dean Taylor so he could be dealt justice.

 

[boombox4]

Questions and topics like this don't bother me, and really, they shouldn't bother anyone. Look at the subject matter covered in the last three pages of this thread. It's a radio discussion, right?

One of the key takeaways is that it appears that the internet model has definitely affected radio, both program-wise and the bottom line.