How to make Christian radio a failure

[rbrucecarter5]

I'll hasten to add the station I referenced was secular with blocked paid religious programming on Sunday morning and evening. So no worry about correct or incorrect doctrine. That and a couple of other places I board opped on Sundays could be a thread, if not a book, by themselves. "Sister Treva" coming in with her enterouge, saying a quiet good morning, setting up in an adjacent studio, and letting the screaming fly. The guy who screamed stacato style would bring in his tape and check, and very hoarsely say "here's my program". The years of screaming had ruined his speaking voice. We had a couple of guys who bought 15 minute segments on Thursday evening. 7:00 and 8:00 hour, we'd have ABC news, Pentecostal preacher, then 40 minutes of the regular format. (Of course I would play something like "You Should Be Dancing" by the Bee Gees out of the programs!)

I had those preachers stop off by the station with their tapes and checks rubber banded to them. The all looked bewildered by the programming being played, as if the thought we were doing something wrong. However --- one of the preachers would come in stinking of cigarette smoke. Another would come it after obviously drinking a beer or two. Another was so into the baptism of the Holy Spirit he tried to get me rolling on the parking lot, telling me that I had refused the Holy Spirit and it had bounced off me into him. Whatev --- I have arthritis, BAD, and am not able to be a holy roller in the parking lot, something the Holy Spirit would have told him if he was really in tune. Another of those preachers was arrested for abusing his wife. And so on --- but it was US who were not "spiritual", because we played Christian rock music. Again - whatev ----

 

[rbrucecarter5]

It certainly hasn't been unheard of in my life for adults who have been away from the church for years to have a life event and seek that solace.

If that is your ministry - go for it. I was merely relating the experience of a sainted old missionary, who was firmly convinced that adults are so set in their ways compared to kids, it is next to impossible to convert them. If I did a straight analysis of electrical power required for each salvation, it would slant way in the direction of Christian radio targeted at kids to get the most salvations per kW hr. Do what you want, whatever the Holy Spirit directs you to do. I'll do the same ---- Somebody has to primarily feed sheep, that's you. Somebody has to minister to lost kids and help lead as many as possible into the Kingdom, that is me. Whose ministry is more important? Neither, and both. We each do what we are called to do. I'm no good at feeding sheep, you are no good at reaching kids. So we each do what we are good at.

 

[R.D.P.]

To Mr. Bruce Carter,

If God does lead me to do an Internet only radio station, I might call on you to help me do a harder sounding music program for my audience. 

Right now I'm Praying to see if this where God is leading me.  If He allows this to happen, I know that He'll supply me with everything I need to establish this station and then keep it going. 

R.D.P. <><

P.S. Since this station will have a worldwide reach, I want to cater to those songs and musicians that most of Christian Radio tends to avoid.  To all of those that have advised me to go this route, I'm seriously thinking about it.  What I need to do is Pray and seek God's will for this one.  If He leads me in this direction then I'll be stoked and excited.  Since my writing career is now experiencing worldwide fame, it would make perfect sense for me to do this.

 

[justalurker]

... you are no good at reaching kids.

Bruce, this is what gets you in the deepest trouble. Assuming that no format can reach kids other than yours. Which is why every time I see you bash Christian radio I'm reminded that you don't accept the success of Christian radio. It is your way or go to hell, isn't it?

You owe our fellow poster an apology for saying he is no good at reaching kids. If one is not forthcoming then it just proves my point about your bias.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Bruce, this is what gets you in the deepest trouble. Assuming that no format can reach kids other than yours. Which is why every time I see you bash Christian radio I'm reminded that you don't accept the success of Christian radio. It is your way or go to hell, isn't it?

You owe our fellow poster an apology for saying he is no good at reaching kids. If one is not forthcoming then it just proves my point about your bias.

Fine, if you are reaching them with hymns, go for it. I'm just going by what kids in my youth group say about the local PW station - they loath it and listen to secular. They laugh when you suggest that the listen to it. Even the Godly kids. Especially the ones that aren't Christians yet. Except when it plays one Christian rock show per week which some of them listen to, and forlornly wish the station was like that all the time.

I think it is hilarious the way a fellow from Moody reacted when I begged them not to destroy the ministry of WCIE in 1996. He basically said that kids would welcome the change and were looking forward to Moody's format. It was pathetic - he really believed it - complete and total denial of the facts. The ratings soon proved him wrong. Kids, it would seem, did NOT welcome or want Moody's programming.

I was actually more like you 20 years ago. I advocated Christian radio of any format rather than anything secular. I got viciously boo'ed off the podium at Spring Arbor School when I talked to kids about it. One stood up and said that he was NOT going to listen to that boring WUFN, the rest vocally joined in. WUFN was a nice little traditional station, run by a nice lady in a trailor. She gave us air time to talk about a new chapter of the AFA we were establishing. I was actually going to suggest that the kids try WSAE, which the school ran, but apparently they had been so conditioned by adults that they were supposed to listen to hymns instead of something more fun, that they took my words and thought I was yet another fool pushing WUFN down their throats.

But like I say, you reach them with hymns, preaching, Southern gospel, or gregorian chants, do it. I just don't think the numbers of salvations will compare with youth targeted Christian rock, but if you think you know better, I won't convince you otherwise.

So you think I owe the fellow poster an apology. So extended. Nobody here, especially you, bothers to apologize to me for vicious personal attacks, which, by the way, lose the debate by established rules of debating.

 

[justalurker]

Well I thought your goal was winning souls, but since you're on the beach I suppose you have to settle for "winning" arguments on the Internet. Or at least believe that you have won. Just try to be POSITIVE. Knocking those involved in Christian radio certainly won't win you any support.

 

[gr8oldies]

I guess I have to ask, and I realize I come from a different background that doesn't emphasize becoming an "instant fundamentalist", but since when was it a numbers contest? Here's the tote board, 200, yes 200 people got saved tonight? Can we go for 250?

Where I go to church, there are still youth who sing in the (traditional) choir as well as the Praise Band. I'm certain they aren't listening to hymns at home, however. I can understand the whole playing the same music with different words, but I can't imagine that if in 1973 someone had said "This song sounds exactly like "Let's Get it On" except it's about Jesus, "this sounds just like Chicago but it has Christian lyrics", or maybe "This guy sounds like Barry White but he's in ecstasy about Jesus instead of a woman" I'd have been the least bit interested in throwing away all my 45s. I realize lyrics are more over the top these days, but I can't interest my son in Radio U.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I guess I have to ask, and I realize I come from a different background that doesn't emphasize becoming an "instant fundamentalist", but since when was it a numbers contest? Here's the tote board, 200, yes 200 people got saved tonight? Can we go for 250?

Where I go to church, there are still youth who sing in the (traditional) choir as well as the Praise Band. I'm certain they aren't listening to hymns at home, however. I can understand the whole playing the same music with different words, but I can't imagine that if in 1973 someone had said "This song sounds exactly like "Let's Get it On" except it's about Jesus, "this sounds just like Chicago but it has Christian lyrics", or maybe "This guy sounds like Barry White but he's in ecstasy about Jesus instead of a woman" I'd have been the least bit interested in throwing away all my 45s. I realize lyrics are more over the top these days, but I can't interest my son in Radio U.

I don't apologize for going for numbers. All indications are that time is very short, we need to go for the most salvations we can before it is too late. As long as follow up is included in those numbers, we don't just notch our spiritual gun belt and abandon them. We need to get the plugged into local churches as well. That was the job of our phone team, and they did a fantastic job! They had a list of every church in town, and gave every new believer a suggested church that fit their background, or their personality, or at least their geographical area if they had no background to speak of.

I hear you about some of those crossovers - we were very careful about that, I can assure you! There were many things I wouldn't play because of bad associations. "Jesus is Just All Right" for one. DC Talk had a great crossover - but the DOOBIE Brothers tie in was too strong, and Jesus is NOT "just all right" to me. He is my Lord and Savior. That is a lot more than just casually saying he is just all right.

My most unpleasant experience with dubious songs wasn't on the radio. It was in a CHURCH. The hymnal, no less, of a major denomination had, believe it or not - IMAGINE - by John Lennon as a hymn in the book. It was in the order of worship. I walked out rather than sing it. I also saw some other really bad choices in that same hymnal. I won't name the denomination, but it would shock you because it was a mainstream one.

So yes - secular songs that are redeemed to make Jesus the source of ecstasy instead of lust - I totally agree with you we need to keep that off the air and out of the hymnals.

 

[flytrap]

I don't know what "mainstream" church you are talking about but I doubt you would ever hear 'Imagine" in a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic etc. church. That sounds like something you would have in an extremely liberal congregation. The "Metropoliton Community Church" (gay friendly), Unitarian Universalism, or other liberal church. John Lennon's "Imagine" though being a pretty tune, Its lyrics seem to be straight out of a liberal handbook.

 

[radiocph]

Wasn't the "Born Again" movement sort of hippie-oriented in the 70s....before the Religious Right took over in the 80s?

I remember hearing songs like "Put Your Hand In the Hand" (Ocean) and "Everything is Beautiful" (Ray Stevens) about that time...no
one minded those too much, even though dyed-in-wool traditionalists wouldn't use them in a church service.

Of course, there was the doctrinally dubious stuff--"Jesus is Just Alright" is a bit on the hippie side, but not really offensive. But I mean songs like "Spirit In the Sky" ("Never been a sinner I never sinned").

And there was George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" --the AM radio stations cut out the part when he sings "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna ..."
A few folks were probably fooled into thinking he was singing about Jesus....

As for "Imagine": Many people have listened to these lyrics and declared "Imagine" an atheistic, unpatriotic, communistic screed--set to pretty piano music. But I'd like to propose an alternate interpretation of this song: a representation of eternal life with God.

"Imagine there's no heaven" -- you don't have to "imagine" it, you're there.
"No hell below us" -- eternal life means you are not subject to hell and don't have to worry about it

"Imagine there's no countries" -- there will be only one "government" -- God. We won't be squaring off into national,
political, racial, etc. groups in heaven

"Nothing to kill or die for" -- eternal life means you cannot die, and people will not have the desire to take anyone else's life,
or otherwise harm anyone.

"And no religion too" -- religion has been described as "man's effort to get close to God". In heaven, with God right there,
there will be no need to go through all of the contortions, traditions, etc. that people do here on earth.
Note that Lennon never said "No God."

"Imagine no possessions" -- In heaven, God will meet every need, so there would be little point in hoarding stuff and
putting a fence around it, like we do on earth.

"No need for greed or hunger" -- It's no secret that earthly, human governments are a big mess. Communism has been largely
swept into the dustbin of history, and capitalism may shortly follow it if this economy doesn't improve. But in heaven, again,
God will meet all needs. No need for all the cutthroat competition, or the gun of government, to impose some sort of
economic system on everyone.

"I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one" -- Not the "world" in the sense of unsaved people, but this
the hope that everyone will get saved, and enjoy eternal life. God does not want anyone to perish but desires all to come to repentance"
(2 Peter 3:9)

Just another way of thinking about this song.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Wasn't the "Born Again" movement sort of hippie-oriented in the 70s....before the Religious Right took over in the 80s?

O.K. ... If I can quit "chuckle-ing" for a moment... I have to ask: Did you offer this comment seriously, with a straight face.... or were you attempting a bit of humor?

Christianity for centuries has taken songs and poetry of the era and adapted them to tell the story of Christianity. Your vision and adaptation of "Imagine" is an excellent example of that. Some people will take offense at how you handled it, others will relish the adaptation.

The Religious Right of the 80s didn't invent anything new. They simply continued the use of a theological position that had been alive and well for say maybe 100 years. Many church groups had been in struggles internally for decades over how they would present and interpret the Gospel. What happened circa 1980 was that the.... the... well what can we call them and be fair about it... that the conservatives, the orthodox, the traditionalists the fundamentalists achieved command and control in a number of church groups about the same time which effectively quieted, muzzled, the... the... well what can we call them and be fair about it... the moderates, the progressives, the centrists, the liberals. And circa the 1980s a strong alliance developed openly between the Religious Right and the Political Right.

And in this change of who would control these church groups indeed came a change in what music would be used for worship and used for outreach, for evangelism.

Some of the verbal battles here in R-I forums over what Christian music to broadcast is hard-wired to the various organizational currents that still exist in the church over all. The "Religious Right" is NOT the whole church, It is a fractional part of the over all community of organized churches.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Just another way of thinking about this song.

Except for one little detail. John Lennon's religious views. Clearly - your interpretation is not the meaning he intended to portray. I respect the man enough to say that he was well intended and deeply spiritual. It is just too bad it was the wrong spirit.

Phil Keaggy supposedly talked with John Lennon a few weeks before his death. John seemed to be genuinely interested in Christianity, but the influence of Yoko was opposing any conversion experience.

I will not dishonor a dead man by pretending he was of a faith he clearly rejected. Free choice is every bit as much a gift of God as salvation. John made his choice whether to accept Christ or not, and God honors that choice as the decision of free men. I personally wish he had made the decision to follow Christ, but I cannot pretend he did. If I started doing that, I would be like a Mormon who baptize dead into their faith.

"Imagine" does not belong on the playlist of Christian radio or in a church hymnal. Any more that "Spirit in the Sky" or the other examples posted in another post.

 

[radiocph]

Just another way of thinking about this song.

Except for one little detail. John Lennon's religious views. Clearly - your interpretation is not the meaning he intended to portray. I respect the man enough to say that he was well intended and deeply spiritual. It is just too bad it was the wrong spirit.

Phil Keaggy supposedly talked with John Lennon a few weeks before his death. John seemed to be genuinely interested in Christianity, but the influence of Yoko was opposing any conversion experience.

Well, if it was "a few weeks", maybe he did "get on the bus", so to speak, before the end. Maybe he did not. No-one can really know for sure, and perhaps it is really not for us to know....

I will not dishonor a dead man by pretending he was of a faith he clearly rejected. Free choice is every bit as much a gift of God as salvation. John made his choice whether to accept Christ or not, and God honors that choice as the decision of free men. I personally wish he had made the decision to follow Christ, but I cannot pretend he did. If I started doing that, I would be like a Mormon who baptize dead into their faith.

"Imagine" does not belong on the playlist of Christian radio or in a church hymnal. Any more that "Spirit in the Sky" or the other examples posted in another post.

Repurposing "Imagine" might be a stretch, given the history of John Lennon. (Although I have no quarrel with anyone who wishes to do so)

However, I do know of several "two-way" songs, that could have either a religious or secular meaning:

The first one that came to my mind is Debby Boone's "You Light Up My Life". But that song may have started out as a religious song,
and the secular stations picked it up later.

But, a year or so ago, a local gospel station was playing a cover version of Alicia Keys' "If I Ain't Got You". The lyrics were the same. The assumption was, since this was a gospel singer being played on a religious station, the referent in the song was God, rather than a human love interest.

Also, back in the late 70's, Todd Rundgren wrote a song, "Love is the Answer". (England Dan and John Ford Coley had a decent hit with it
in 1979). No mention of God as such, just a feel-good positive force shining down on everyone. About a decade or so later, a Filipino CCM singer named Gary Valenciano covered the song, and placed it on an album with other CCM songs. Again, the lyrics were the same.

The question, as it applies to "If I Ain't Got You" and "Love is the Answer" is: is it appropriate to play these songs (without any modification) in a CCM radio/church context?

 

[MikefromDelaware]

If Debby Boone's song " You Light Up My Life" was to be a spiritual P/W song, then I'd catagorize it as one of those "Jesus is my boyfriend" type songs, which seems very wrong. My guess is (maybe someone can find an interview with Miss Boone to find out the real answer) She recorded that song as a secular love song. But some believers struggle with the idea that a Christian can make a beautiful romantic secular love song as being a turn coat or something. Look at all the grief Amy Grant had with "Baby Baby". Scott Wesley Brown then offered up his version called "Baby Baby Why Can't We" saying that they talked about love in the Bible especially in the Song of Solomon, so baby baby why can't we?, etc, etc.

 

[justalurker]

If the best and most beautiful P&W song was written by a non-Christian and you didn't know until years later would it destroy your faith? If you made a decision to follow Christ at a concert where music later found to be "secular" was played did you just lose your salvation? You could have been at the most touching concert hearing what you believe was the best and most inspired music ever and walked out blessed by the Holy Spirit. Or do you say WAIT A MINUTE, before I get blessed by this I need to know the full history of the song? Stop the music and interview the author/songwriter (and anyone who has ever sung it)!

What if the music was based on secular songs? That drum beat and guitar riff sound a lot like a song with nasty lyrics. Can't have that in the church, can we Bruce? Can't have people singing hymns that were written to common bar tunes either.

While there are songs that have more secular connections than can be overcome a "Jesus is my boyfriend" song that is a cover of a secular song isn't any different than if it was first performed by a Christian and later taken mainstream. But then we get into the old argument over what is a Christian song ... does it have to mention Jesus? How many hours of prayer are required per song to make it holy? Seems like the line is easily arbitrary.

God can use a donkey ... I'm sure he could use Debby Boone, whether or not she wanted to be used.

 

[radioboy]

Having read the thread regarding the Wilson radio stations, I'm left wondering:

Are all 4 of those stations playing basically the same musical format?

Have any of these owners/managers EVER actually tried to find out what the need of the market is?

Tallahassee is almost this bad on the AM band:

Three black gospel stations, of which two are satellite feeds; an EWTN satellite station; an inspiration/teaching Christian station; and a Fox Sports station. The live black gospel station, a rimshot,
is local all day and actually showed in the Arbs. The sports station is the only other AM to do so.

All the CCM is on Way-Fm or K-Love on FM.

I sold advertising for AM stations for a number of years and I honestly don't know how these stations are surviving unless they're getting money from other means. (The inspo station is a non-comm on a commercial frequency so they receive donations, but can sell ads on the 1070 frequency. Their facilities are nice and the owner is hands-on and involved in the community. That one makes sense to me.)

I believe "You Light Up My Life" was originally a secular love song. Debby Boone did record some CCM albums during the 1980s. I have them in the collection I purchased from former CCM station WCVC.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Sure God can use any song he chooses. The rock opera "Jesus Christ Superstar" was written by non Christians. The original rock opera, did not have a resurrection scene. Basically it ended when Jesus died on the cross (many Christians were upset over that). Yet, I remember seeing that rock opera while stationed in the Air Force at Pease AFB, Portsmouth, NH. When the rock opera ended, there was total silence. People filed out of the theatre in total silence. The crucifiction scene was done so powerfully that it left people stunned and speechless, literally. I know numerous folks who, after seeing Jesus Christ Superstar, started reading the Bible (some of the folks I knew got their first Bible then which was the paperback version of the Good News for Modern Man Bible New Testament) and eventually came to Christ. So even though the composers weren't writing that musical for a religious purpose, God had other plans.

 

[justalurker]

The Passion was originally written with the same ending. Fortunately the beginning of a resurrection scene was added to avoid the same response.

God gets people thinking.