i can't stand espn radio

[Pratte4Life]

Nate- to answer your question, because ESPN has been shown to give more airtime to sports they have contracts for and less for ones they don't.

For instance, Sportscenter ignored Arena Football- until ESPN got the Arena Football contract.

Generally speaking, ESPN's Sportscenter spends more time with basketball than the FOX equivilent does. FOX spends more time on baseball. Sportscenter reduced its coverage of hockey when they lost the NHL contract to Versus.

As far as your second point, Newsweek did a study on a scale of 1-4 where the NBA was most popular in the country.

The urban hotbeds were the only ones who had 4s. Utah was a 3.

If you lived in East Tennessee or the middle of Kansas, you didn't give a rat's @ss.

 

[Nate Wesley]

Nate- to answer your question, because ESPN has been shown to give more airtime to sports they have contracts for and less for ones they don't.

For instance, Sportscenter ignored Arena Football- until ESPN got the Arena Football contract.

They're also an investor this time around, as the network now holds a small stake in the league.

As far as your second point, Newsweek did a study on a scale of 1-4 where the NBA was most popular in the country.

The urban hotbeds were the only ones who had 4s. Utah was a 3.

If you lived in East Tennessee or the middle of Kansas, you didn't give a rat's @ss.

So they cater to the big metros where the ratings are and not the bumpkins in Knoxville and Lawrence. That's just smart business. That is why the networks keep doing shows that revolve around New York, Chicago, L.A., etc. If you don't do well there (where the media buyers/planners are), you're not going to do well at all.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Not necessarily, Nate- as NASCAR proves.

 

[Leebo65]

ESPN, spends a lot of time on College Football which means nothing in the North East.. College Football lives and breeds in flyover country...
Some people don't understand the synergistic relationship between College and Pro-Football but ESPN does... Thats why the NFL draft is so big.. Once we implant this over in Britian and the rest of Europe we will have conquered the world..

 

[Nate Wesley]

Not necessarily, Nate- as NASCAR proves.

Check out the posts on Sports Media Watch. Falling ratings across the board, regardless of network. Not catastrophic drops, mind you, but drops nevertheless. Of course, that's TV, this thread is about radio--and there's just not a lot of passion about NASCAR strategy on national sports radio.

There is usually something relevant to talk about in terms of the NFL or NBA every week of the year, even in their off-seasons. Not so with the not-at-all stock cars.

 

[Pratte4Life]

It could be argued there is MORE to talk about week to week with NASCAR since the season lasts so long and the off-season is filled with how drivers are changing teams, sponsorships, technology, etc.

Now, I'm not really into all that either. But going back to your original point, are you saying that NASCAR ratings are down because they are in flyover country?

That doesn't make any sense. The NBA was going down before Celtics-Lakers last year boosted them up.

All I'm saying is that, as you stated, ESPN tends to ignore the heartland, hence a disconnect with a significant part of the audience.

 

[Rusty Muck]

All in all, there are some shows that clearly stand out on a national network level. Mike & Mike and Colin Cowherd are the biggest gems in the ESPN Radio lineup.

Which sadly says a lot. It would be a different situation is Mike & Mike were actually decent to listen to. The only reason they get so many clearances is that ESPN basically forces their affiliates to carry the show in order to keep their affiliation. It's called extortion.

See Memphis' "ESPN 92.9," where M&M displaced "Rover's Morning Glory," who actually got very decent ratings on the station's previous format. M&M got a 0.4 share... on a sister AM station that has a far better coverage area.

And of course... if you can't get M&M on the radio... watch them on ESPN2. Or listen on espnradio.com. Or read their commentaries on ESPN: The Magazine. Can anyone say, "oversaturated?"

FSN has a winner in Dan Patrick

By blind luck. Most FSR affils were carrying him anyway instead of Craig Shemon and James Washington. Not hard to see why. Pure budget move.

and J.T. the Brick has been getting it done for years.

Then why didn't FSR's "flagship" KLAC not clear his show UNTIL the merger with the network - going so far as to co-produce Tony Bruno's show with WW1?

And the 2 Live Stews had built a nice following before they signed on with SNR--the sports radio community has needed an injection of their 'hot sauce' (as they put it) for a while now.

You know of an affiliate that carries them now? Besides flagship WQXI/Atlanta? I sure don't. Oh, they have Akron... but that station's flipping to FSR next week. (And their "following" before SNR was on Radio One's syndicated urban talk network...)

 

[Rusty Muck]

ESPN Radio is okay. It's not as great as it once was. Mike and Mike, Colin Cowherd, Dan Patrick/Obermann, THAT was a great lineup. HUGE personalities, something for everyone.

No... the ORIGINAL "GameNight" weekend lineup of Tony Bruno, Chuck Wilson, Joe D'Ambrosio and Todd Wright (with John Stashower on updates) was by far the best they ever had. It was the ultimate sports talk party.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Nathan- absolutely on that with Bruno and Co.

I remember getting a part-time job as a pizza delivery driver on Saturday nights just so I could listen to them.

 

[Nate Wesley]

Which sadly says a lot. It would be a different situation is Mike & Mike were actually decent to listen to. The only reason they get so many clearances is that ESPN basically forces their affiliates to carry the show in order to keep their affiliation. It's called extortion.

See Memphis' "ESPN 92.9," where M&M displaced "Rover's Morning Glory," who actually got very decent ratings on the station's previous format. M&M got a 0.4 share... on a sister AM station that has a far better coverage area.

By all means you should know that there's a different priority when comparing talk audiences to music audiences. Talk radio is about superserving profitable demos, it's not simply about ratings. That's probably why Entercom (on their own will, not through extortion ) made the switch. They wouldn't be making the move if they didn't think they'd profit from it somehow.

You know of an affiliate that carries them now? Besides flagship WQXI/Atlanta? I sure don't. Oh, they have Akron... but that station's flipping to FSR next week. (And their "following" before SNR was on Radio One's syndicated urban talk network...)

Just added San Francisco's new "XTRA Sports 860" about a week ago or two. The full list (which probably needs editing) is on their website: http://2livestews.com/

And yes, the Stews had a nice following before the Radio One/Syndication One deal. The show was carried by both XM and Sirius, and WQXI has streamed online for years. Word-of-mouth recommendation is how the show grew from a local night show in 2001 (and 1000 watts at night) to a part of Sporting News Radio's daytime syndication efforts today.

 

[Nate Wesley]

Nathan- absolutely on that with Bruno and Co.

I remember getting a part-time job as a pizza delivery driver on Saturday nights just so I could listen to them.

I think I'd have kept that tidbit to myself ???

 

[Rusty Muck]

Which sadly says a lot. It would be a different situation is Mike & Mike were actually decent to listen to. The only reason they get so many clearances is that ESPN basically forces their affiliates to carry the show in order to keep their affiliation. It's called extortion.

See Memphis' "ESPN 92.9," where M&M displaced "Rover's Morning Glory," who actually got very decent ratings on the station's previous format. M&M got a 0.4 share... on a sister AM station that has a far better coverage area.

By all means you should know that there's a different priority when comparing talk audiences to music audiences. Talk radio is about superserving profitable demos, it's not simply about ratings. That's probably why Entercom (on their own will, not through extortion ) made the switch. They wouldn't be making the move if they didn't think they'd profit from it somehow.

You miss the point. ??? "Rover's Morning Glory" is an all-talk and current events show based in Cleveland.

Entercom made the choice to simulcast ESPN on the FM side. I'm not arguing that. I AM arguing that ESPN makes demands on their affiliates to place Mike & Mike on the most prime of prime times... morning drive... on all their affiliates. Even though they are just an awful show that you can see EVERYWHERE. It has no special marketability, and both Greenburg and Golic are bland, forgettable hosts propped up by four letters.

Rover would have absolutely worked in the format. He literally propped up his former flagship in Cleveland (which fired all air personalities after he jumped to CC and WMMS-FM), and has survived the mistake of "Free FM" brought upon him by CBS. Chances are he did the same thing in Memphis.

Oh, they'd profit from the switch. Sports formats are cash registers humming all the time. But their ratings would PALE in comparison. And most of the truely successful sports talk stations have NON-sports programming in the morning. WFAN did it with Imus forever, and they PIONEERED the format. WXYT-Detroit is doing it with Jay Towers and Bill McAllister: a holdover from their previous talk format. Ditto with WJZ-Baltimore and former afternooner Ed Harris.

Entercom could've done the same thing with Rover 5a-10a, and all-sports, all-day. Marketed to the same demos, they'd pull in the same revenue, and get decent ratings. Especially when Entercom has no valuable PBP for 680/92.9. But you can't have one show on the AM and another on the FM. Not when ESPN is in the driver's seat. If 680/92.9 had FSR, it would've been a different story, and there might've been something special.

Next thing I know, you will defend ESPN's indefensible move to CHARGE non-O&O's $10K yearly fees for branding and naming rights. Where's Martin Luther when you need him?

You know of an affiliate that carries them now? Besides flagship WQXI/Atlanta? I sure don't. Oh, they have Akron... but that station's flipping to FSR next week. (And their "following" before SNR was on Radio One's syndicated urban talk network...)

Just added San Francisco's new "XTRA Sports 860" about a week ago or two. The full list (which probably needs editing) is on their website: http://2livestews.com/

Where they will be promptly buried by both KNBRs (all-local 680 and ESPN/Rome affiliate 1050). KTRB is a brand-new 50kW station - which previously had an all-Talk Radio Network lineup - with no local programming that I see. Good luck going up against Gary Radich with that.

Oh, and it DOES need editing. They have lost Akron, and Boston (a former SNR O&O) dropped them for BROKERED liberal talk from Dial-Global and bankroller Jeff Santos back in January. The list otherwise reads like a very popular Atlanta show with some simulcasts on unimpressive, third-string AM signals. And that's putting it LIGHTLY.

And yes, the Stews had a nice following before the Radio One/Syndication One deal. The show was carried by both XM and Sirius, and WQXI has streamed online for years. Word-of-mouth recommendation is how the show grew from a local night show in 2001 (and 1000 watts at night) to a part of Sporting News Radio's daytime syndication efforts today.

I guess. Whenever they get off of the "dead network broadcasting" in SNR, I will believe you. :

 

[Nate Wesley]

You miss the point. ??? "Rover's Morning Glory" is an all-talk and current events show based in Cleveland.

Entercom made the choice to simulcast ESPN on the FM side. I'm not arguing that. I AM arguing that ESPN makes demands on their affiliates to place Mike & Mike on the most prime of prime times... morning drive... on all their affiliates. Even though they are just an awful show that you can see EVERYWHERE. It has no special marketability, and both Greenburg and Golic are bland, forgettable hosts propped up by four letters.

I knew what you were talking about, as that's precisely the reason behind most of the ESPN Radio affiliate shakups as of late. And even with the commitment ESPN Radio commands, Entercom still went through with the switch. I guess what you're really mad at is that they didn't consult you first. You had exclusive information on what they should do, and they had the gall to ignore you! The bastards!

Next thing I know, you will defend ESPN's indefensible move to CHARGE non-O&O's $10K yearly fees for branding and naming rights. Where's Martin Luther when you need him?

Dude, I don't work in radio, I don't own any stations, I don't work for ESPN, and don't give that much of a damn what they charge for whatever. I just listen...nothing more, nothing less. If ESPN wants to charge it and stations want to pay, God bless them. And to those that don't wanna pay, there's two other sports radio services and several other radio formats to try.

For that matter, why are you so obsessed over it? Did your plans of expanding "Nathan Obral's Sports Talk Network" past the Part 15 station in your backyard get derailed by Bristol's nefarious misdeeds? And what, pray tell, does Martin Luther have to do with it? He's been dead for well over 400 years and doesn't even know what a radio is. What will he add to the conversation?

Where they will be promptly buried by both KNBRs (all-local 680 and ESPN/Rome affiliate 1050). KTRB is a brand-new 50kW station - which previously had an all-Talk Radio Network lineup - with no local programming that I see. Good luck going up against Gary Radich with that.
...
Oh, and it DOES need editing. They have lost Akron, and Boston (a former SNR O&O) dropped them for brokered liberal talk from Dial-Global and bankroller Jeff Santos back in January. The list otherwise reads like a very popular Atlanta show with some simulcasts on unimpressive, third-string AM signals. And that's putting it lightly.
...
I guess. Whenever they get off of the "dead network broadcasting" in SNR, I will believe you.

You don't have to believe me, just believe in the factual information that you asked for, sir. You asked for non-Atlanta affiliates of the Stews, and I gave them. Sneer at the list or their accomplishments if you want--they're working, you're trolling a message board. Terrestrial radio clearances (both current and former) in Atlanta, Memphis, San Francisco, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Tampa, Miami, Nashville, Detroit, St. Louis, and Las Vegas. Nationwide callers listening live, both online and through satellite radio. And not one, but two national syndication deals, with some occasional visibility on ESPN2.

If that's failure as a sports talk radio host, sign me up.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Some personal thoughts...

I am not sure I'd consider the Stews a "failure". I don't think they're destined to be in the top tier with Romey, Patrick, Bruno et al., but most of their stagnation at this point isn't their fault.

A) Great for them that they got a syndication deal with Radio One, but that was all mishandled. It also languished them to Radio One's not-so-great AM lineup.

Here in Cleveland, they were on WERE, first at 1300 (for decades) and then at 1490 (though I'm not sure the Stews were on Syndication One long enough to make the move). Both stations have limited reach, 1490 even more so than 1300. Radio One moved the WERE urban talk format to 1490 - specifically stating that they were bringing 1490's gospel to a better frequency.

1300 is mostly a better frequency than 1490...but both do not serve large parts of the more-spread-out Cleveland market these days. Even if you're talking only African-American audiences, both miss large areas now...due to sprawl.

You know what Radio One stations don't miss large population growth areas? Urban AC WZAK/93.1 and hip hop WENZ/107.9, which are both highly rated. (Particularly WZAK.)

A few months down the road, they moved Syndication One's Al Sharpton BACK to 1300, in the middle of the gospel format on WJMO! (The Stews were long gone at that point.)

B) Then, the move to SNR.

As Nate says, SNR is very much a "dead man walking", sports radio network-wise. Who even OWNS SNR now? I'm not even sure it's hooked up with the magazine anymore...which I believe is owned by Newhouse now (Cleveland Plain Dealer's owner). What are its biggest clearances?

Clear Channel's WARF here actually went with SNR over FSR at the time it flipped to sports, and no, I joke about this but it's probably not a joke, I think they went with SNR because that's where Tony Bruno was at the time. He left them, and landed his Content Factory deal, and WARF was one of his very first announced affiliates. WARF is perhaps the only station in America which has aired Bruno in each of his national incarnations.

And yes, I'll chime in as another fan of Bruno, Chuck Wilson and company in the ESPN weekend "GameNight" days. THAT was an entertaining show, with the best over-all chemistry I'd ever heard in sports radio. I still like Bruno, though I don't catch him that much in the late night slot now.

Anyway, back to SNR...I'm often surprised it's still on the air. And though WARF is not a monster large market station for them (though it does get much of the Cleveland market), it's a big loss.

WARF does run the Stews now with SNR, but as Nate said, it goes away a week from Monday. And SNR doesn't even get the booby prize of soon-to-be-former FSR affiliate WJMP/1520 here...it's going all syndie talk with Mancow, Laura Ingraham and Michael Savage (and United Stations' Lou Dobbs in the "We've Got To Put Something On In Afternoon Drive" slot).

(And just wait until TRN's hosts realize that you can't even pick up 1520 without massive static or co-channel interference in about half of Akron!)

Back to the Stews. They have done very, very well on flagship WQXI in Atlanta, which got them noticed. But there's a long, long list of local hosts who didn't really catch on nationally as well as they did locally.

 

[Pratte4Life]

I always thought that Sports Illustrated article on The Stews got them noticed.

Questions I have- have The Stews been successful? Certainly.

Does their style attract them to a broad audience? No. This isn't the end of the world- Scott Ferrall didn't either and he was/is successful.

But there is some truth- if you're not into hip-hop you probably won't be into the Stews. If you weren't into hard rock and metal back in the day you probably weren't into "Ferrall on the Bench."

But if you were, they were your heroes.

The question I have is this- The Stews have been known for style over substance. They also have been known to impress a lot of important sports radio people- Bruce Gilbert- former ESPN Radio GM, current Red Zebra executive, has stated his fandom of the show.

But does that mean that sports talk can no longer break news? That it's more on schtick and less on information these days?

And is that a good or a bad thing?

 

[Rusty Muck]

Some personal thoughts...

I am not sure I'd consider the Stews a "failure". I don't think they're destined to be in the top tier with Romey, Patrick, Bruno et al., but most of their stagnation at this point isn't their fault.

A) Great for them that they got a syndication deal with Radio One, but that was all mishandled. It also languished them to Radio One's not-so-great AM lineup.

Here in Cleveland, they were on WERE, first at 1300 (for decades) and then at 1490 (though I'm not sure the Stews were on Syndication One long enough to make the move). Both stations have limited reach, 1490 even more so than 1300. Radio One moved the WERE urban talk format to 1490 - specifically stating that they were bringing 1490's gospel to a better frequency.

1300 is mostly a better frequency than 1490...but both do not serve large parts of the more-spread-out Cleveland market these days. Even if you're talking only African-American audiences, both miss large areas now...due to sprawl.

You know what Radio One stations don't miss large population growth areas? Urban AC WZAK/93.1 and hip hop WENZ/107.9, which are both highly rated. (Particularly WZAK.)

A few months down the road, they moved Syndication One's Al Sharpton BACK to 1300, in the middle of the gospel format on WJMO! (The Stews were long gone at that point.)

I did stumble recently that Al Sharpton moved BACK to WERE... apparently back in February.

B) Then, the move to SNR.

As Nate says, SNR is very much a "dead man walking", sports radio network-wise. Who even OWNS SNR now? I'm not even sure it's hooked up with the magazine anymore...which I believe is owned by Newhouse now (Cleveland Plain Dealer's owner). What are its biggest clearances?

Chicago and Detroit... via three hours nightly on WSCR and four or five hours on WXYT A/F. But again, both of those stations are heavily locally-oriented, have a bevy of PBP. WSCR has the White Sox and WW1 packages, to name a few; WXYT and CBS Radio now have every major PBP contract that's NOT Michigan State in their grasp. So they only air David Stein and maybe Todd Wright.

*XEPRS/690 San Diego has a fair amount of local programming (and Jim Rome - in his original home base) and Padres baseball throught the whole day.

*KTCK/Dallas-Fort Worth is also heavily invested with local programming; SNR only shows up in the overnight hours.

*WAXY/790 South Miami is also an SNR affiliate, and they now carry former deposed FSR hosts Jorge Sedano and Krystal Fernandez in morning drive, but it also carries some ESPN programming (that affiliation is spilt between WAXY and Heat flagship WINZ-AM).


**KTRB/San Fransisco carries the Stews, but it IS an FSR affiliate, carrying the rest of FSR's schedule in total (KNBR/1050 dumped FSR to pick up the ESPN Radio affilation - in fact, it is now the largest ESPN Radio affiliate that doesn't use the ESPN name in branding).

After those stations, the rest appear to be the only affiliates left after WARF-Akron defects to FSR. At least the only ones I can find. Any one else know of an affil, just pass it along:

*WJJB/Portland, ME: aka "The Big JAB"

*WNSR/Nashville (which took the affiliation by default after Cumulus ripped their ESPN affiliation for an upstart FM sports station)

*KUOA/Fayetteville-Siloam Springs, Arkansas

*WQYK/Seffner-Tampa, Florida

*KRDO-FM/Colorado Springs, Colorado

*KDRS/Paragould, Arkansas

*WPDC/Harrisburg, Pennsylvania

*WDSR/Lake City, Florida

*WOYK/York, Pennsylvania

*KEZM/Sulphur, Louisiana



With regard to the former O&Os:

*New York's WSNR/620 went with all-ethnic and brokered programming when SNR STILL OWNED the station.

*WWZN/Boston still kept the network on for the most part - while airing a patchwork of local brokered shows in between - until getting the money to air progressive talk. SNR's only on 7p-10p weeknights (with whomever replaced Arnie Spanier) - as long as they don't have a paid poker or MMA talk show (which appears to be quite often), and their former morning show "The Young Guns" got booted to 10p-12a nightly. Ralph Gordon Stair bankrolls the 12a-6a hours every day.

*KMPC/Los Angeles dumped the network for Korean programming.

Clear Channel's WARF here actually went with SNR over FSR at the time it flipped to sports, and no, I joke about this but it's probably not a joke, I think they went with SNR because that's where Tony Bruno was at the time. He left them, and landed his Content Factory deal, and WARF was one of his very first announced affiliates. WARF is perhaps the only station in America which has aired Bruno in each of his national incarnations.

And - excluding SportsFan Radio network - has carried all of the major sports networks (SNR was still kind of a major network when Bruno was still in their employ.)

WARF - then WTOU - picked up ESPN Radio first... right before Bruno left the then "Bruno-Golic morning show," where he was ultimately replaced by Mike Greenburg.

They flipped to FSR in 2001 and carried the "Morning Extravaganza"... then flipped to liberal talk in 2005. Then 1350AM went back to sports in 2007 with SNR and Bruno (again).

And SNR doesn't even get the booby prize of soon-to-be-former FSR affiliate WJMP/1520 here...

That's being very generous. ;D

 

[bordeaux]

Nathan deserves credit for his lengthy post, just based on the time it took him to write.
Good god, are you one of those unemployed radio people.
Whats next ? The fifth book in the Twilight series.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Nathan deserves credit for his lengthy post, just based on the time it took him to write.
Good god, are you one of those unemployed radio people.
Whats next ? The fifth book in the Twilight series.

Nah. I just know that entering the buisness is all but an impossibility. I gave up on it years ago. Doesn't mean I can't critique it tho.

 

[Mainedude2007]

*WJJB/Portland, ME: aka "The Big JAB"

WJJB airs as much SNR as some of the big market affils.....local morning show, Dan Patrick & Rome during the day, local afternoon show and Boston Red Sox at night and on the weekend and saturday mornings they have 2 more local shows.

And the only reason they don't pick up Fox is it's on their sister station that simulcasts WEEI from Boston and they refuse to pick up ESPN because ESPN wants too many hours of programming.

 

[David67]

i hate the way that espn radio has changed. it seems that everything has the words sports center in front of it it seems espn radio kisses the nfl's hiney. i wish espn radio would bring back game night. i wish it still had d.p. FOOX SPRTS RADIO ROCKS.

It seems like every ESPN Radio host is ultra arrogant. I'm glad My sportstalk station 1370 in Chattanooga changed to Fox Sports,easier on the ears! ;D