I miss the old KNX

[LKellerIII]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

David, your comment is out of bounds. from your resume it is obvious that you yourself are not a spring chicken so why you hate people in my age group escapes me.

I do not hate older people. But someone who likes old radio dramas from the 40's is 99.99999% certain to be in their 60's, so that is a truth.

I rarely (if ever) question David's demographic knowledge, but in this case I have to.

To be in your 60s this year, you'd have to be born between 1941 and 1950. I don't know how many 9 year olds were heavy into radio drama in 1950...but the big bulge in 60-somethings comes with the baby boomers from 1946 onward...and they were more likely to listen to Shadoe Stevens than The Shadow.

I'm betting the demographic sweet spot for Old Time Radio is in the 70s, 80s and maybe even older. My mom liked them. She'd have been 88 last week.

Bill Cosby spoke fondly of them in his old comedy routines...he'll be 73 this year. The youngest person I know who's a fan is 72.

I'll be 54 in a couple of weeks. I'd listen as a novelty if nothing else compelling was on...but I'm betting not a lot of people my age did or would. And I'm in the last year of being of any interest to advertisers.

God - Michael - you're really old! ;D. I first heard old radio dramas as a teenager in the mid 1960s (I'm 58). One of the big AM stations played them during the day on the weekends...I want to say KABC, but I could be wrong. My father had always talked about how great they were compared to TV - that you could use your imagination more and conjure up the pictures in your head. Being a first generation TV kid, I was skeptical about that, but I thoroughly enjoyed some of them, while finding others (like The Shadow)) unbelievably corny.

I remember that many of them seemed so inachronistic and "old fashioned" even though many of them were less than 20 years old at the time.

I also liked the CBS Mystery Theatre in the 80s. In the Bay Area, it ran on KSFO, because KCBS didn't want to break their all news format.

RE: George Nicholaw's editorials - no knock on the man, he's a great radio veteran, but I found his editorials stodgy in the 1960s. He must have been a young guy then, but he always sounded like a grumpy old man to me.

 

[michael hagerty]

Llew:
I know for a fact (just heard the aircheck the other day with the promo) that KFI was running old radio shows on Sunday nights as late as summer, 1973. Maybe it was them in the 60s?

 

[Bryan Simmons]

Got my start at a ten watt high school station in the 70's and we loved staging radio dramas. I feel that the radio geek in us thinks that they would be cool to do, and listening to old time radio shows in general may be something for a very limited audience, but that small audience loves them. I really enjoyed listening to the syndicated show that Stan Freberg hosted that showcased old time network radio shows. They weren't all dramas you know. The Jack Benny shows were just the best! But I see no reason for an all news station to run them in this day and age. However, on the correct station, why not? I can think of several that could run them nightly or as a special weekend feature.

 

[nmoore6676]

Before Mr. Eduardo ( ) and his cohorts are able to hustle all the old coots off to the liquidation chamber
maybe some marketing genius out there in LALAland could invent GeezerRadio where The Lone Ranger might
ride again and Joe Friday could keep the scum off the streets of our fading imagination. I mean, WTF,
doesn't the crotchety old 55+ demographic have any money to blow? I don't get it. My move into Books-
On-Tape (MP3's, CD's, etc) is a direct result of my finding little I want to hear on RADIO anymore. Beats me.

This isn't "Field of Dreams" and you could build it but they (the advertisers) would not come.

The whole issue of 55+ targeted programming is that there is essentially no ad agency client targeting their radio advertising at 55+. So, no matter what the programming, there would be no significant ad support.

Sorry David, I think you took me just a little too seriously before. I do have some resentment that there is not much that I enjoy on the air (Radio or TV) lately but I learning to adjust but I do sometimes come off as seeming a bit testy but I was intending to be at least a little tongue in cheek.

I can think of some stations out here in the midlands that are programming for the older demos, but they are locally owned and probably not raking in the dough but then neither are the big magabroadcasters like Cheap Channel. A couple of them are owned by people who have some money and love radio so they program what they like. A couple of others are operated with complimentary business like Classic Country in Xenia Ohio where the owner has a recording store that sells what they play and he also does concert promotions, he even has his own bluegrass group, but that much work is rare these days. I doubt his wife sees him home much but these days that can be a good thing.

A smart person will make money however they can but the big guys don't want to fool with it. Usually small local owners are more concerned with actually serving their communities so that is another difference. Big operators such as CBS and Clear Channel have no interest in the community, they have eyes only for the balance sheet. KNX is what it is because it is still a workable format for AM and as they distance themselves from 980 for an eventual sale they are smart to put their efforts for news into 1070.

A quick note, I remember the old shows from the original airings as I had said vaguely, however there was some of that programming on until the mid or late 50s. But by that time our house had converted to mostly TV so the big radio sat in the corner gathering dust. Later I moved it to my room and it was a great receiver for DX, with an outside long wire. It also had short wave and FM but before they moved it to the present band. I modified it to switch out the speaker and use headphones so I could listen at night without my parents knowing I wasn't asleep.

Another interesting note, Gunsmoke was one show that went in reverse. Many of the shows on radio converted to TV versions, such as Our Miss Brooks and Ozzy and Harriet, but Gunsmoke did a radio version starring William Conrad as Marshall Dillon which was created after the TV show had been on for a while with James Arness in the lead.

 

[KeithE4]

Another interesting note, Gunsmoke was one show that went in reverse. Many of the shows on radio converted to TV versions, such as Our Miss Brooks and Ozzy and Harriet, but Gunsmoke did a radio version starring William Conrad as Marshall Dillon which was created after the TV show had been on for a while with James Arness in the lead.

Nope, the radio version was first, beginning in April 1952. The TV version began in September 1955. They ran concurrently from September 1955 to June 1961 on CBS radio/TV. The casts were totally different.

 

[davideduardo]

"The whole issue of 55+ targeted programming is that there is essentially no ad agency client targeting their radio advertising at 55+. So, no matter what the programming, there would be no significant ad support."

---Why not? Why is no ad agency client targeting their radio advertising at 55+? THAT's what I don't get.

Essentially none do it using radio. The 55+ stuff is often medical, insurance or investment related... requiring long disclaimers. Magazines, and TV using scrolls, can do this. But these are products designed for seniors, and so there are not a few decades of prior habit and usage and preference to overcome.

If suddenly you need stool softeners, and have never used them, you will respond to advertising at a low cost per sale. But there is not enough business in 55+ products that can use radio to fashion a station around the demo; as is said in another post, the older leaning stations are ones with pure local sells in smaller markets.

Advertisers do not generally push mass market products against 55+ because there is no profit. Marketing costs exceed the profit on each sale, and so they stay away from older demos.

 

[LKellerIII]

Another interesting note, Gunsmoke was one show that went in reverse. Many of the shows on radio converted to TV versions, such as Our Miss Brooks and Ozzy and Harriet, but Gunsmoke did a radio version starring William Conrad as Marshall Dillon which was created after the TV show had been on for a while with James Arness in the lead.

Nope, the radio version was first, beginning in April 1952. The TV version began in September 1955. They ran concurrently from September 1955 to June 1961 on CBS radio/TV. The casts were totally different.

That's correct. This photo of the radio cast was posted on another board here recently. The pic was reportedly taken as part of the campaign to convince the TV producers to use the already established radio cast instead of James Arness et al. You'll note William Conrad as Dillon, Howard McNear (later Floyd the Barber on The Andy Griffith Show) as Doc, Parley Baer as Chester, and Georgia Ellis as Miss Kitty.

http://www.otrwesterns.com/shows/gunsmoke-300x296.jpg

Michael - I guess it could have been KFI, though I know I heard the old radio dramas on the living room radio, which my mother tended to keep glued to KABC during the 60s...at least after her favorite DJ Bob Crane left KNX.

 

[nmoore6676]

Another interesting note, Gunsmoke was one show that went in reverse. Many of the shows on radio converted to TV versions, such as Our Miss Brooks and Ozzy and Harriet, but Gunsmoke did a radio version starring William Conrad as Marshall Dillon which was created after the TV show had been on for a while with James Arness in the lead.

Nope, the radio version was first, beginning in April 1952. The TV version began in September 1955. They ran concurrently from September 1955 to June 1961 on CBS radio/TV. The casts were totally different.

I know that my memory isn't what it used to be but I distinctly remembered one of those old radio series playing an episode of the radio version of Gunsmoke and claiming that it post dated the start of the TV series. However i went back and double checked a couple of sources and you are so correct. The confusion may have been, for the host who misguided me, that William Paley wanted it to be on TV but it was not developed and produced until three years later. So in essence the radio version was a kind of second choice fill in for the TV series.

I knew that the casts were different, even in 1955 I don't think William Conrad would have worked for Matt Dillon on film, though on radio he had the voice for it. To make up for the blunder and I double checked this time. Howard McNear who later became known as "Floyd The Barber" in the Andy Griffith Show had the part of Doc in the radio Gunsmoke. Again, in MYHO, another perfect voice match. I guess that is why I liked radio because oftentimes the voices of actors in TV series do not match my mental image of the characters.

I guess that this is all appropriate for a KNX discussion because Gunsmoke on radio would have been on KNX back then. I guess those would be the true golden years for 1070 (1955 and back) though those of us who were part of the rock and roll generation have fonder recollections of the favorite DJs we idolized in the late 50's and 60s.

 

[Fornax]

I remember the old KNX-AM when George Nicholaw (sp?) ran it. I loved it. I rarely listened to any other radio station. I didn't need too. On Sundays you had the 2 football games. Monday Night Football. The Drama Hour. Sports 15 and 45 after the hour. Business 20 and 50 past the hour. I'm not into the ponies but I liked listening to the updates on the horse races with Trevor Denman (again sp?) They had the full 5 minute top of the hour newscast. After the top of the hour news they gave a quick summary of the upcoming news stories in order. Traffic every 6 minutes after the Northridge quake. Now it's (to me at least) almost unlistenable. Why is it that anymore when things change it's almost NEVER for the better? The radio in my vehicle had 6 AM presets. I only had the one and it was set on KNX. I didn't need to listen to anyone else. I miss the old KNX.

I'd like to get back on topic. I agree with David Eduardo that football games are a huge disruption. I think LA listeners want play by play sports on sports stations, not news stations. As for the other items you mentioned, KNX still does sports at :15 & :45, business at :20 and :50. Horse race results!! Even in their day, that was a pure sales play not really anything listeners wanted to hear. Traffic every six minutes was a late addition and a joke, it created so much clutter you wouldn't hear anything else except commercials. It did make for a nice billboard. As for the top of the hour, do you really think you're getting 1/2 - 2 minutes less news? You're actually missing a commercial, probably delayed later in the hour and usually an old "lighter" story. Especially the way radio is measured today getting right into local news makes a lot more sense than playing a CBS commercial. The same goes for the news summary -- are you referring to the thing with the datelines and the hokey sounder? Either way, today a stand alone local news summary would be a great way to tell people that's all you've got and it's time to tune to something else. Radio drama is not worth the effort, especially since so much of the 60-70 year old content is culturally insensitive today. Those who want it can find it on the Internet, which they couldn't do in the 70's. The editorials were mostly a tune out then and far from hard hitting.

I've listened to KNX for many years, my parents were huge fans. For many, many years the station was stodgy, boring and repetitive. I think (PD) Andy Ludlum has done a masterful job crafting a product with a contemporary sound and greatly improved imaging and production values. I don't think he gets near enough credit for the improved sound and ratings gains, especially since he's had to spend a lot of time cleaning up what was left behind by the "so-called genius" who preceeded him. I don't think KNX has ever sounded better.

 

[Uncle Rob]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

Nowhere near it and have quite a ways to go before I get there.

I'm guessing school let out early or you are playing hookie?

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

Nowhere near it and have quite a ways to go before I get there.

I'm guessing school let out early or you are playing hookie?

"Robert The Great One"--- you are pretty darn naive and uninformed if you're inferring that David Eduardo is a school-age youngster. Do yourself a favor before you look like a horse's behind, check out David's website.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/

 

[Uncle Rob]

Radio drama is not worth the effort, especially since so much of the 60-70 year old content is culturally insensitive today. Those who want it can find it on the Internet, which they couldn't do in the 70's.

And that's the attitude that is causing listeners to tune out of radio and people reading newspapers to stop reading them. Yep, I can listen online (and do) to old time radio. But while I am listening to it I am NOT listening to your radio station. If I have to go online for more information I'm not going to go to your site. When Firefox opens up to the Google search page I input what I need NOT your stations website. I then get the information/entertainment that I desire. So then, why continue listening to your station? The LA Times used to have some good sections. Now they complain that readership is dropping because of the internet. Well, gee, let me see. I'm holding your paper in my hand and you tell me for more information go online. So I go online put in what I want the information of and NOT the LA Times website. I get what I need. Couldn't get it from the Times so why bother reading it if i'm going to be told to go online. YOU HAD ME reading your paper (or listening to your station) , now you tell me not to. Fine. KNX had a lot to offer back then that I couldn't get elsewhere. Now that I can get it elsewhere I have no need to listen to them. (Instead of buying Ipods and downloading the shows and getting equipment so I can hear it over my car stereo, all I had to do was turn the radio on.)

 

[Uncle Rob]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

Nowhere near it and have quite a ways to go before I get there.

I'm guessing school let out early or you are playing hookie?

"Robert The Great One"--- you are pretty darn naive and uninformed if you're inferring that David Eduardo is a school-age youngster. Do yourself a favor before you look like a horse's behind, check out David's website.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/

(scratching head) So it's ok for him to insult other members of this board because he has a website? I must be missing something.

 

[Fornax]

Radio drama is not worth the effort, especially since so much of the 60-70 year old content is culturally insensitive today. Those who want it can find it on the Internet, which they couldn't do in the 70's.

And that's the attitude that is causing listeners to tune out of radio and people reading newspapers to stop reading them. Yep, I can listen online (and do) to old time radio. But while I am listening to it I am NOT listening to your radio station. If I have to go online for more information I'm not going to go to your site. When Firefox opens up to the Google search page I input what I need NOT your stations website. I then get the information/entertainment that I desire. So then, why continue listening to your station? The LA Times used to have some good sections. Now they complain that readership is dropping because of the internet. Well, gee, let me see. I'm holding your paper in my hand and you tell me for more information go online. So I go online put in what I want the information of and NOT the LA Times website. I get what I need. Couldn't get it from the Times so why bother reading it if i'm going to be told to go online. YOU HAD ME reading your paper (or listening to your station) , now you tell me not to. Fine. KNX had a lot to offer back then that I couldn't get elsewhere. Now that I can get it elsewhere I have no need to listen to them. (Instead of buying Ipods and downloading the shows and getting equipment so I can hear it over my car stereo, all I had to do was turn the radio on.)

Perhaps, but I think you might be confusing your personal tastes with how people really use the radio. Just simply putting something on the radio doesn't mean people want it or will listen to it. With radio drama, KNX is not going to have access to any more dramas that you have now online. If you'll recall, KNX presented the programs without commentary, so there's nothing they'd really add to your experience other than do the "picking" and maybe make it a little more convenient if you're in the car. That's assuming this is kind of programming you want in the car in the evening. And that's a big leap. So, what is a KNX listener looking for at night? I'm guessing, but maybe it's traffic, weather, news headlines, sports scores? Could be any of those. What you're saying is they'd rather hear a 60-70 year old radio drama, chosen by the station - one they could select, download and listen to anytime they choose in a variety of formats? I just don't buy your argument. I think there will always be a need for stations like KNX providing timely LOCAL information. But listeners don't gather around the family radio any more and listen like the RCA dog!

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

Nowhere near it and have quite a ways to go before I get there.

I'm guessing school let out early or you are playing hookie?

"Robert The Great One"--- you are pretty darn naive and uninformed if you're inferring that David Eduardo is a school-age youngster. Do yourself a favor before you look like a horse's behind, check out David's website.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/

(scratching head) So it's ok for him to insult other members of this board because he has a website? I must be missing something.

Uncle Rob,

It is usually good etiquette to read a bit of the earlier board posts and get a feel for the who the main posters are and the overall lay of the land before posting. As Super said, it might keep you from embarrassing yourself.

 

[gerald]

I see both points of view here. I've been listening to KNX for the 30 years I've been in LA, and I was one of those who enjoyed football on Sunday, and Monday Night Football, and the KNX Drama Hour. Even get a kick out of Melinda Lee, even though I burn water. Geoff Levy was a colossal waste of time. Every Saturday night I would find a radio to listen to Jack Benny.

But I was also one of those who would get frustrated if KNX was in non-news and I wanted news, or needed traffic or weather. But back then, there was an option - flip over to KFWB to get the needed info.

Clearly the answer would be for someone to integrate radio drama into their format, and to find a place to reliably hear football on weekends. But now that I'm in my 50s, I'm too old to be spinning the dial to find those stations. I listen to my KNX until I've heard the news cycle (22 minutes, world, etc.) and then I'm gone.

 

[michael hagerty]

Let me guess... you are around 60.

Nowhere near it and have quite a ways to go before I get there.

I'm guessing school let out early or you are playing hookie?

"Robert The Great One"--- you are pretty darn naive and uninformed if you're inferring that David Eduardo is a school-age youngster. Do yourself a favor before you look like a horse's behind, check out David's website.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/

(scratching head) So it's ok for him to insult other members of this board because he has a website? I must be missing something.

Uncle Rob,

It is usually good etiquette to read a bit of the earlier board posts and get a feel for the who the main posters are and the overall lay of the land before posting. As Super said, it might keep you from embarrassing yourself.

And since when is it an insult to suggest that someone might be over 60? It was a deduction based on an interest that has a clear demographic.

 

[ercjncpr]

Before Mr. Eduardo ( ) and his cohorts are able to hustle all the old coots off to the liquidation chamber
maybe some marketing genius out there in LALAland could invent GeezerRadio where The Lone Ranger might
ride again and Joe Friday could keep the scum off the streets of our fading imagination. I mean, WTF,
doesn't the crotchety old 55+ demographic have any money to blow? I don't get it. My move into Books-
On-Tape (MP3's, CD's, etc) is a direct result of my finding little I want to hear on RADIO anymore. Beats me.

Somebody already did...its the Radio Classics Channel on Sirius/XM satellite radio...been there for years and quite successful too!

 

[davideduardo]

(scratching head) So it's ok for him to insult other members of this board because he has a website? I must be missing something.

Since when commenting / asking whether your age is within the demo normally and in 99.999999999% of cases associated with old radio drama and insult?

 

[WTFman]

Before Mr. Eduardo ( ) and his cohorts are able to hustle all the old coots off to the liquidation chamber
maybe some marketing genius out there in LALAland could invent GeezerRadio where The Lone Ranger might
ride again and Joe Friday could keep the scum off the streets of our fading imagination. I mean, WTF,
doesn't the crotchety old 55+ demographic have any money to blow? I don't get it. My move into Books-
On-Tape (MP3's, CD's, etc) is a direct result of my finding little I want to hear on RADIO anymore. Beats me.

Somebody already did...its the Radio Classics Channel on Sirius/XM satellite radio...been there for years and quite successful too!

---The problem with (subscription based) Sirius/XM is that the only commercials they have sell satellite radio service and never Signal Oil products, Chesterfields, or Lifebouy Soap.
It was a big mistake to ever let whippersnappers rule the world in my opinion.