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I think I know why Radio's dying

X

XCountry285

HD Radio sucks! I spent 50 bucks on an HD radio at Best Buy. I tried it out in Riverdale on Route 23 horrible! It didn't work! What the heck? It was portable granted, however still it couldn't get ANYTHING AT ALL! No wonder why HD Radio never took off it's signal is terrible! Are they kidding me?! This is pure garbage! I'm returning my HD Radio as soon as possible because this thing is horrific! I barely got 104.3 in HD! Nothing came in HD-2!
 
That's funny. It was a whole lot different when the companies that owned radio stations also made radios. Of course that was long time ago. But they had a vested interest to make sure you could pick up stations on their devices. They had a vested interest in making sure the sound was great. They programmed for the radios, and they built the radios to receive the stations. Just like when phonograph companies also owned record labels. Not any more. The companies that make radios today don't care. Radios are low selling, low profit devices that are often buried at stores. Even at Radio Shack! There's more care taken in making underwear.

My favorite story about that though comes from my grandmother. She knew I worked in radio. So every time I come over to visit, she uses the opportunity to complain about her radio. The sound sucks, the signal drifts, and it gets interference (she likes AM). Sorry grandma, can't help you. She told my mom that I'll never succeed in radio because I can't fix the device. Maybe she's right.
 
It ain't the radio, it's the system itself. The "HD" (IBOC) carriers are at -14 to -20dBc. -20dBc is 1% of analog power. So you're 6kW ERP station from Empire (WAXQ) is running 60 watts HD if they're at -10dBc.
 
Obviously everyone's experience will vary. I live 12 miles outside the city in NJ and I get a full (5 bar) signal on all (or most) HD signals. I'm using an Insignia portable HD radio.
 
In Central VA just far enough from places like Charlottesville, Richmond and Northern VA, there aren't any listenable HD signals to be had. Of course there aren't any HD radios to be had either, so it all evens out.

HD is probably fine in an urban center, but get out into the country and you are wasting time and money.
 
TheBigA said:
That's funny. It was a whole lot different when the companies that owned radio stations also made radios. Of course that was long time ago. But they had a vested interest to make sure you could pick up stations on their devices. They had a vested interest in making sure the sound was great. They programmed for the radios, and they built the radios to receive the stations. Just like when phonograph companies also owned record labels. Not any more. The companies that make radios today don't care. Radios are low selling, low profit devices that are often buried at stores. Even at Radio Shack! There's more care taken in making underwear.
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Well, what I'm about to say might be a bit of a stretch. But, Toyota is putting iHeartRadio in its cars. iHeartRadio is made by CC and feature CC stations. So in a way, the stations are producing their radios, and the streaming content on them. Kind of like Apple.
 
wpb1999 said:
Well, what I'm about to say might be a bit of a stretch. But, Toyota is putting iHeartRadio in its cars. iHeartRadio is made by CC and feature CC stations. So in a way, the stations are producing their radios, and the streaming content on them. Kind of like Apple.
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It's an app, not a radio. Maybe that's what radios have become: software, not hardware. But in the old days, radio companies were in the hardware business. Not any more.
 
I've had to buy four Insignia portable HD radios because they kept breaking from just normal use.

Here's how my HD radios died

1st - Purchased Black Friday 2009. Lasted until September 2010 when I dropped it and it lost its sensitivity.
2nd - Purchased in September 2010. Lasted until February 2011 when the screen stopped working.
3rd - Purchased in February 2011. Lasted until December 10 when it froze. Almost died in August.
4th - Purchased on December 14. When will it die? It's still working as of now, but it's not seeing as much use as the first 2 since I now mainly stream Internet dance stations on my iPhone, and I even listen to the local stations on that instead of my HD radio. I just carry it around because it's good for DXing.


I can't believe you can't get ANY HD stations in Riverdale, it's in the Bronx, only about 10 miles from Empire. Maybe you just got a bad unit, and you should exchange it.
 
I think the OP was in Riverdale NJ, way out west where NJ 23 crosses I-287. I frequently stay out along the 287 orbit a little bit to the north, in Suffern, and it's just far enough out (and just terrain-shielded enough) from Empire to make HD reception hit-or-miss. V-soft.com says the Empire FMs are predicted to deliver between 65-67 dBu of signal to Riverdale NJ. That's enough for clean analog reception in a car, but not enough to ensure clean analog on a cheap clock radio indoor...or to ensure HD signals (at -20 dBc or -14 dBc) will lock in without using an external antenna.
 
We have HD Radios in both cars and never have any problem, driving around the metro area, even behind hills that on the east coast, would be considered to be mountains! You need an antenna, though. I can't think of any reason that HD-1 would decode but not HD-2. The latter might just have been off the air.
 
I now mainly stream Internet dance stations on my iPhone, and I even listen to the local stations on that instead of my HD radio.
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This has to be the future of real-time audio distribution. I'm too cheap to pay for entertainment when I can consume ad-supported content for free and, so far, I've been too cheap to buy a smart phone and data plan. But I know eventually I'll need to get a smart phone for other reasons and then I'll more than likely retire my netbook, digital camera ... and portable radios. I wouldn't subscribe to broadband internet at home just to stream audio but since I have I use it. I believe at some point we'll see a paradigm shift from transmitters to IP. It's inevitable.
 
Hopefully more HD stations in the area will increase their power. WWPR 105.1 HD and WLTW HD have been much easier to receive since they increased the output of their HD signal from the usual 1%, to 4% of the analog signal. The boost made a huge difference in reception in outlying areas. I believe that WBLS HD is also using relatively high power, but am not sure what level they are running.
Best Buy is introducing an Insignia HD table radio that will sell for $49.99 (FM only). Besides being one of the cheapest HD radios, it will be one of the first with a built-in whip antenna. That may offer better reception on many HD radio signals than the wire antennas which are included with most other HD table radios.
So efforts are continuing to make HD radio more practical, at least on FM.
 
Barry said:
Hopefully more HD stations in the area will increase their power. WWPR 105.1 HD and WLTW HD have been much easier to receive since they increased the output of their HD signal from the usual 1%, to 4% of the analog signal. The boost made a huge difference in reception in outlying areas.
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When you consider New York City signals at 6kw, even if the FCC would authorize the 10% for Empire, that would still only be 600w, or, the equivelent signal of the "little guy" (105.9). The problem is, you shouldn't expect the range of WQXR's analogue because the human mind will ignore a certain amount of noise, whereas the digital receiver is more picky and as a result the signal will appear non-existent to the receiver. The same holds true with TV.

Sight and sound should be left to analogue, unless range is not a factor.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
 
In West Milford I was able to get Z100 in HD-2 for a little bit and that's further north of the city. I don't understand online it says that West Milford is in range 60.1 dbu's whatever that is from the city or signal range and I know HD radio should cover that area. I don't understand why their HD-1's standard stereo FM comes in on all NYC FM's even 105.9 FM and not on HD-2. This doesn't make sense. And I was able to pick up HD-2 for 96.9 in Middletown and 92.7 in Middletown in HD which doesn't make sense because I barely can get them on my regular radio in the car. Anyone else know anything about HD radio that can explain why it's such a weird crazy system?
 
XCountry285 said:
In West Milford I was able to get Z100 in HD-2 for a little bit and that's further north of the city. I don't understand online it says that West Milford is in range 60.1 dbu's whatever that is from the city or signal range and I know HD radio should cover that area. I don't understand why their HD-1's standard stereo FM comes in on all NYC FM's even 105.9 FM and not on HD-2. This doesn't make sense. And I was able to pick up HD-2 for 96.9 in Middletown and 92.7 in Middletown in HD which doesn't make sense because I barely can get them on my regular radio in the car. Anyone else know anything about HD radio that can explain why it's such a weird crazy system?
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Analogue and digital signals have different reception characteristics. One can compare with TV. When the switch was made from analogue to digital a few years ago, many people using antennas started receiving some channels crystal clear, that formerly had static and snow. And some channels that came in so-so on analogue could not be received at all when they were switched to digital.
The situation with HD radio stations is similar. I can receive some FM stations that sound marginal on analog totally clear on HD. And some others that are fair or even good on analogue do not come through on HD.

With regard to the previous post by Badjef, I believe an HD signal running 600 watts would provide reception that is comparable to the 6000 watt analogue signal in most areas, but would still be subject to some dropouts in very hilly areas.
 
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