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Ibiquity caught trying to pull a fast one!
- Thread starter KB1OKL
- Start date
radioracket said:
He has a long and well-documented history of disliking any type large media. Thus the name of his site. If you've been following his site as long as I have, you know that he is not an unbiased scholar, but a guy who made his mind up a long time ago about big media, and is simply doing research to prove his previously-held opinions. If he's going to any form of reputable university, his dissertation will be trashed by those who know what real research is.
HD Radio is just one of the many things he has created fictional or incorrect posts about, such as the one quoted at the start of this thread. Those of us who do REAL research for a living have been calling him out on his conspiracy theories.
radioracket said:
You're wrong. They DON'T maintain it, which is why they have the disclaimer. They hired an outside company to maintain it. They can't be held responsible for what that company does.
No, YOU'RE wrong. Companies are held responsible in situations such as this all the time. In actuality, you can't "contract away" responsibility for entities you own and permit others to operate.
It's been established in case after case. Like the one where a guy sued Ford Motor Company when he was zooming down a country road at night, and tried to dim his lights as a courtesy to an approaching driver. He stepped on the dimmer switch and his headlights went out. He had an accident and sued Ford, who tried to argue thay they didn't make the dimmer switch but bought it from a vendor; they said the plaintiff should sue the switch company, not Ford. They lost. The court reasoned that the switch was part of an assembled entity which Ford promoted and sold to the general public.
It's exactly apposite with iBiquity company and its owned websites. If it's yours and it affects someone, you're responsible. Period.
Take it from me. An attorney and a member of two Bar Associations.
It's been established in case after case. Like the one where a guy sued Ford Motor Company when he was zooming down a country road at night, and tried to dim his lights as a courtesy to an approaching driver. He stepped on the dimmer switch and his headlights went out. He had an accident and sued Ford, who tried to argue thay they didn't make the dimmer switch but bought it from a vendor; they said the plaintiff should sue the switch company, not Ford. They lost. The court reasoned that the switch was part of an assembled entity which Ford promoted and sold to the general public.
It's exactly apposite with iBiquity company and its owned websites. If it's yours and it affects someone, you're responsible. Period.
Take it from me. An attorney and a member of two Bar Associations.
Savage said:
Sure you can, and it happens all the time. You park your car in a garage, there are signs everywhere that the garage owner isn't responsible for your personal property left in your car.
Savage said:
There is a huge difference between someone being killed by a car, and someone receiving incorrect information from a web site. Don't you think? As I and others have said, this disclaimer is very common on the internet. It's an accepted pattern of business on the internet. You have been warned in advance.
radioracket said:
For the third time, they DON'T maintain it. Just having a link on a site isn't proof of anything. I suspect the Alliance maintains it, and has then subcontracted it to a third party who operates it.
radioracket said:TheBigA said:
The guy that runs DIYmedia is doing his PHD thesis on digital radio, and claims that they are new, because he checks out iBiquity's website regularly. I've checked those scammers' website, too, and they are new. Claiming that they are not new, isn't going to make it go away for you, Bob. You messed up, and consumers will see right through your disclaimer - it has been posted on high-visability sites, Bob.
This is the good ol' United States of America (for now) where anybody can be sued for anything at any time. All I'm saying is, if I were advising iBiquity as my client (not that I would accept them as such) I would tell them, don't think you can distance yourself from that site with a management contract and some boilerplate B.S. "disclaimer."
Do I think there is "a difference" between the Ford products-liability case and the iBiquity website case? Of course there is. Every case is different. That's the lawyer's job - to either distinguish from or link to as binding precedent. Tell ya what, TheBigA....you take iBiquity's side and try to hide your client behind that dopey little paragraph and I'll take the plaintiff's case.
I'll look forward to whipping your butt in court. Loser buys the drinks afterwards! (Which would be: YOU.)
Do I think there is "a difference" between the Ford products-liability case and the iBiquity website case? Of course there is. Every case is different. That's the lawyer's job - to either distinguish from or link to as binding precedent. Tell ya what, TheBigA....you take iBiquity's side and try to hide your client behind that dopey little paragraph and I'll take the plaintiff's case.
I'll look forward to whipping your butt in court. Loser buys the drinks afterwards! (Which would be: YOU.)
Savage said:
In order for that to happen, someone would have to sue. As of now, no one has, so the point is moot.
That, to me, is the funny part. No shortage of people who make accusations of fraud and illegality on the internet, often behind anonymous screen names, but none willing to actually take the company to court. Even our friend writing the Ph.D. thesis is willing to spend all this time completing a dissertation, but he won't defend his beliefs in court.
Thanks so much for taking the time to engage all of us in pedantics and sophistry, to say nothing of pointless argument for the sake of argument, BigA. I see you're pretty busy these days since you've been endearing yourself to posters over on the Buffalo-Rochester discussion board.
Yes, There is "no shortage" of all kinds of nitwits "on the internet, often behind anonymous screen names," no question. You often find them right here on the HD board. Small world, isn't it?
And you're correct: if nobody has sued someone in court, there's a good reason. There has to be a little thing called "a cause of action." Establishing this in a complex technical case, such as HD, could easily cost $250,000 or more in expenses and nonrecoverable legal fees with no certainty of success. And it's a daunting prospect since iBiquity and the Alliance have taken great pains to lobby the FCC to establish jurisdictional and bureaucratic hurdles.
All this does NOT mean that injured parties don't have a case. They just don't have the resources the HD pimps do. And even with all their scheming and deck-stacking, their stupid system is already almost a historical footnote. Sometimes justice prevails, notwithstanding.
I'll run along now, since I'm sure you've gotta get in someone's face you've never met.
Yes, There is "no shortage" of all kinds of nitwits "on the internet, often behind anonymous screen names," no question. You often find them right here on the HD board. Small world, isn't it?
And you're correct: if nobody has sued someone in court, there's a good reason. There has to be a little thing called "a cause of action." Establishing this in a complex technical case, such as HD, could easily cost $250,000 or more in expenses and nonrecoverable legal fees with no certainty of success. And it's a daunting prospect since iBiquity and the Alliance have taken great pains to lobby the FCC to establish jurisdictional and bureaucratic hurdles.
All this does NOT mean that injured parties don't have a case. They just don't have the resources the HD pimps do. And even with all their scheming and deck-stacking, their stupid system is already almost a historical footnote. Sometimes justice prevails, notwithstanding.
I'll run along now, since I'm sure you've gotta get in someone's face you've never met.
These is no need to sue someone over iBlock, it is dieing a natural death anyway so i'm sure people just realize it's not worth it. big A (judge for yourself what the A stands for) just comes here to rile people up, I don't know why people keep taking the bait, ignore him and he'll slink away like he did before, some people just aren't happy until they are irritating people. This guy is probably Boob Strew-Bull without the guts to admit who he is or at least works for him. why else would he derail threads all the time that are iBlock negative? One good way I've found is to just answer the post before he posts his inane drivel which usually has nothing to do with the thread at hand. If no one acknowledges his drivel, he will get no satisfaction, I Can't get no satisfaction. But I try, and I try, and I try and I try! Can't no Satisfaction. Forgive the RS tune.
KB1OKL said:
Ah yes. More of the Third Grade level "Loser's Lexicon"... i-Block. Creative, too, with the Small "i". Let's not let actual idea exchange inhibit the playground bullies... Oh well...
However you are way off base if you think "I" have any financial interest in HD radio. Your continuing to post that "LIE", despite having been corrected numerous times really calls the integrity of most of what you post in question, IMHO.
Sorry if this is harsh. You are lying and I am stating such.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled ranting... Already in progress.
Clouseau
Savage said:
Hey, you're the one throwing the law degree around. If you don't like what I have to say, put me on ignore. I actually like you, and support your cause.
KB1OKL said:
I don't have to "rile people up." When things get quiet, someone revives an old thread to motivate the troops.
clouseau said:
I did not mention your name Inspector nor did you even enter my mind,
but now that I have your attention, what do you think about iNiquitie's ingeniousness anyway? The fact that they own a third party website and try to pass it off as being owned by a disinterested party? That IS NOT a LIE and is the topic of this thread although it's a little burned out by now.
This whole thing is moot because fewer and fewer people have any interest in the HD Radio website.
Here's something to see. Go to www.alexa.com and run a 6 month Website Traffic Comparison between these two sites:
hdradio.com and pulse87.com
(Pulse 87, for those of you who haven't heard, is a little LPTV station in Queens pretending to be an FM station. Listeners need to tune down to 87.7 MHz to receive it. Unfortunately, 5.6 MHz of spectrum (the visual portion of the channel) is essentially being thrown away. )
And the winner is... Pulse 87!
Hello FCC! Does anyone down there have a clue? Why is IBOC allowed to destroy the AM band when the obvious place to put those digital signals is Channels 5 and 6?
Here's something to see. Go to www.alexa.com and run a 6 month Website Traffic Comparison between these two sites:
hdradio.com and pulse87.com
(Pulse 87, for those of you who haven't heard, is a little LPTV station in Queens pretending to be an FM station. Listeners need to tune down to 87.7 MHz to receive it. Unfortunately, 5.6 MHz of spectrum (the visual portion of the channel) is essentially being thrown away. )
And the winner is... Pulse 87!
Hello FCC! Does anyone down there have a clue? Why is IBOC allowed to destroy the AM band when the obvious place to put those digital signals is Channels 5 and 6?
I've complained twice recently to the Board Administrator about the balky page repaint. They say they're aware of the problem and are working on it.
I think another problem is the increasing irrelevance of HD Radio. As we have exhaustively noted, AM is truly a dead issue. There have been no new HD-AMs for more than 90 days, while the dismal pop-count of HD-AM stations bobbles up and down by a station here and a station there. Mostly this is operators turning it on or off for one of the innumerable technical flaws plaguing the system, and not new installs.
New FM-HD has all but stopped as proponents continue their frantic lobbying for their 10 db digital increase, this time without the enthusiastic but much more measured support of NPR.
The smart money says they won't get an across-the-board increase of 10, but more likely something like 6db and even that will take many months. Because of the delay and the technical hedging, that means HD-FM is just about moribund for several reasons. First, receiver manufacturers are bailing. Retailers left the HD party 6 months ago. Locally you can't find a freestanding HD Radio without a search party, and the available car radios have morphed into "HD-ready." (You could make that claim about any consumer audio device with an AUX input, for Pete's sake.) And second, the technically savvy and reasonably objective opinion is that it's a stretch to say that 10db is going to make a significant improvement in digital penetration, and consequently 6db is a non-starter. And even those modest increases, in the opinion of many, will increase interference both co- and adjacent-channel to unacceptable levels.
As if those problems aren't enough, you have the economic and practical obstacles to increasing digital power. The economy is awful and radio's revenues are in a serious downturn. Retrofitting FM transmitter sites for a 10db increase promises to be prohibitively expensive, requiring entire new transmitters, antennas and HVAC plants in many installations. In some locations - such as the top floors of office towers - installing higher-powered HD transmitters is a physical impossibility. Consequently, even if an across-the-board 10db increase is approved, relatively few stations will bother.
Somewhere else on this board someone noted that an Alliance colleague he knows stated flatly that they're done with HD installs.
Take it all together and add it all up. It boils down to: HD Radio is done. Of course the existing installs will continue to hiss along for the immediate future - after all, all that capital and work went into it. OTOH don't expect any enthusiasm from listeners or broadcasters going forward.
It's all over but the blame-laying. We ought to start hearing that sometime this summer, IMHO.
That's why the debate is stilling. The HD problem is taking care of itself. The most brutal and unforgiving critic of all, the competitive marketplace, has cast its vote on the HD issue.
I think another problem is the increasing irrelevance of HD Radio. As we have exhaustively noted, AM is truly a dead issue. There have been no new HD-AMs for more than 90 days, while the dismal pop-count of HD-AM stations bobbles up and down by a station here and a station there. Mostly this is operators turning it on or off for one of the innumerable technical flaws plaguing the system, and not new installs.
New FM-HD has all but stopped as proponents continue their frantic lobbying for their 10 db digital increase, this time without the enthusiastic but much more measured support of NPR.
The smart money says they won't get an across-the-board increase of 10, but more likely something like 6db and even that will take many months. Because of the delay and the technical hedging, that means HD-FM is just about moribund for several reasons. First, receiver manufacturers are bailing. Retailers left the HD party 6 months ago. Locally you can't find a freestanding HD Radio without a search party, and the available car radios have morphed into "HD-ready." (You could make that claim about any consumer audio device with an AUX input, for Pete's sake.) And second, the technically savvy and reasonably objective opinion is that it's a stretch to say that 10db is going to make a significant improvement in digital penetration, and consequently 6db is a non-starter. And even those modest increases, in the opinion of many, will increase interference both co- and adjacent-channel to unacceptable levels.
As if those problems aren't enough, you have the economic and practical obstacles to increasing digital power. The economy is awful and radio's revenues are in a serious downturn. Retrofitting FM transmitter sites for a 10db increase promises to be prohibitively expensive, requiring entire new transmitters, antennas and HVAC plants in many installations. In some locations - such as the top floors of office towers - installing higher-powered HD transmitters is a physical impossibility. Consequently, even if an across-the-board 10db increase is approved, relatively few stations will bother.
Somewhere else on this board someone noted that an Alliance colleague he knows stated flatly that they're done with HD installs.
Take it all together and add it all up. It boils down to: HD Radio is done. Of course the existing installs will continue to hiss along for the immediate future - after all, all that capital and work went into it. OTOH don't expect any enthusiasm from listeners or broadcasters going forward.
It's all over but the blame-laying. We ought to start hearing that sometime this summer, IMHO.
That's why the debate is stilling. The HD problem is taking care of itself. The most brutal and unforgiving critic of all, the competitive marketplace, has cast its vote on the HD issue.
Savage said:
Of course, there is still a fair amount of deck chair arranging on the SS (Titanic) HD Radio.
In today's RW, Tom Ray was talking about how WOR is starting to use the streaming text component of HD-AM to sell advertising ("What Happens When Your HD2 Dies"). Amanda Alexander was chirping away about all the new HD2-3 side channels she was discovering around the Denver area ("An HD Radio Listening Test in Denver"). And then we have Clear Channel and BMW finishing up tests on a new algorithm that will enable Clear Channel to accelerate its traffic-data service over HD Radio stations (http://www.twice.com/article/CA6643156.html). With HD Radio, 500 incident reports to the device per minute can now be delivered compared with analog RDS, which can deliver only about 50 incidents per minute.
In each case, these people work for companies who have bet heavily on HD Radio and, understandably, have an interest in keeping the technology alive. They won't allow HD Radio to quietly slip under the sea even if retailers already have.
C5
Tom Ray?? Puh-LEEEAZE. The most shamelessly arrogant HD-AM promoter of them all. :
"Selling text advertising" via HD-AM? If WOR is actually selling anything specific to HD-AM, they're either giving the product away or grossly overcharging for it. Advertisers don't piddle away good cash American money on marketing vehicles with no appreciable audience - especially in this economy.
If you rip off your clients just to get a sale "today," you won't stay in business long - a basic tenet of ethical practices which is apparently lost on iBiquity, the Alliance and - if Tom Ray is to be believed - WOR Radio. Shame on Buckley if it's literally true. (Which I doubt.)
"Amanda Alexander?" She should have stuck to her hip-hop music career after her notorious dalliance with that most ex- of New York governors, Elliot Spitzer, and.....wait, I'm getting something in my ear in the mix-minus. Oh. Sorry. That was "Ashley Alexandra Dupree." (I always mix those two up.) In any case, so RW found somebody to write another one of those "I drove around Denver and the HD was wonderful!" puff-pieces? Kind of like the one written two years ago about an HD listening drive-around in Denver by Crawford engineering dweeb and stubborn HD promoter/apologist Cris Alexander. Hey, wait a minute! Two HD brag-o-grams about Denver listening by...Cris Alexander....AMANDA Alexander....hmm. I'm seeing a pattern here, aren't you?? ;D
("Daddy, when will the RW contributor check come? I want to go to the Apple store and get a new Nano..")
And the BMW - Clear Channel traffic via HD thing? Like I said on another blog: wake me up when BMW actually has TWO of these systems working in the field. Which have actual users. (Seems to me I just read that Microsoft has said, "no thanks, HD, we're sticking with analog for our traffic data transmission." Oops.)
"Selling text advertising" via HD-AM? If WOR is actually selling anything specific to HD-AM, they're either giving the product away or grossly overcharging for it. Advertisers don't piddle away good cash American money on marketing vehicles with no appreciable audience - especially in this economy.
If you rip off your clients just to get a sale "today," you won't stay in business long - a basic tenet of ethical practices which is apparently lost on iBiquity, the Alliance and - if Tom Ray is to be believed - WOR Radio. Shame on Buckley if it's literally true. (Which I doubt.)
"Amanda Alexander?" She should have stuck to her hip-hop music career after her notorious dalliance with that most ex- of New York governors, Elliot Spitzer, and.....wait, I'm getting something in my ear in the mix-minus. Oh. Sorry. That was "Ashley Alexandra Dupree." (I always mix those two up.)
In any case, so RW found somebody to write another one of those "I drove around Denver and the HD was wonderful!" puff-pieces? Kind of like the one written two years ago about an HD listening drive-around in Denver by Crawford engineering dweeb and stubborn HD promoter/apologist Cris Alexander. Hey, wait a minute! Two HD brag-o-grams about Denver listening by...Cris Alexander....AMANDA Alexander....hmm. I'm seeing a pattern here, aren't you?? ;D("Daddy, when will the RW contributor check come? I want to go to the Apple store and get a new Nano..")
And the BMW - Clear Channel traffic via HD thing? Like I said on another blog: wake me up when BMW actually has TWO of these systems working in the field. Which have actual users. (Seems to me I just read that Microsoft has said, "no thanks, HD, we're sticking with analog for our traffic data transmission." Oops.)
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