ICBC Drops AAR in Philly; Is WLIB Next?

[Mouth1390]

> and by the way. . .why is it that you guys can't argue a
> > point of view on its merits but always have to stoop to
> > personal attacks and venom ? Think about it, first you say
>
> > that I don't know what I am talking about and then you
> close
> > with a comment that I want to create a conservative
> > dictatorship. Come on. The sixties ended a long time ago.
> > Get a hair cut. Take a shower. Buy a suit and wing tipped
> > shoes.
> >
> I am not making this into a political debate. I feel I am
> responding to someone who has posted disinformation which is
> far off base and has politics in the the message. Here's an
> artical writen by the current Air America CEO, which might
> prove useful to answer any questions.
> Right-Wing Media Gets Desperate
> By Danny Goldberg, HuffingtonPost.com
> Posted on September 30, 2005, Printed on September 30, 2005
> http://www.alternet.org/story/26178/
> Recently, Air America Radio came under attack from the same
> cast of right-wing media characters who have attacked the
> network for ideological reasons from day one.
>
> A recent piece in the New York Post by John Mainelli states
> that, "Air America is in ... bad financial shape." On Sept.
> 20, Bill O'Reilly on Fox News which, like the New York Post
> is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation said that Air
> America "could be on its last legs."
>
> This is untrue. Air America is in strong financial shape.
> Last week we started broadcasting from our new multi-million
> dollar studios.
>
> Several weeks earlier the Board of Directors of Air
> America's parent company accelerated re-payment of a loan
> from the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club of $875,000 two
> years in advance of a previously agreed upon repayment plan.
> In the last several months, Air America has expanded its
> executive team to augment our efforts on the internet and in
> affiliate relations.
>
> The pretext for the latest smears is an initiative I
> launched last week called Air America Associates, in which I
> asked our listeners to support our programming financially
> and at various levels offer bumper stickers, tote bags, etc.
> as a way of thanking them. (We received thousands of
> responses, far beyond what we projected for the first few
> days).
>
> Many of our listeners also listen to NPR stations and
> Pacifica and are used to supporting radio programming they
> like. I got the idea from the Nation Magazine's program,
> "The Nation Associates," which helps them fund investigative
> journalism. Like Air America Radio, The Nation is a
> for-profit company.
>
> But the conservative propagandists have tried to make it
> seem like there is something unseemly because Air America
> Radio is both commercial-and a radio network, as O'Reilly
> said last night, "I have never seen a commercial enterprise
> ask their listeners for money-ever." This is also false. The
> modern model of the broadcasting business involves numerous
> revenue streams. If anything, Air America has been late in
> fully building such an infrastructure which the "Associates"
> is a part of.
>
> For example, Rush Limbaugh's website offers his fans the
> "Limbaugh Letter" for $34.95 a year and a totally separate
> service called Rush 24/7 which includes access to archived
> programs at the cost of $49.95 a year. The Limbaugh site
> also features the "EIB Store" which sells such items as
> $19.95 polo shirt which amusingly says, "My Mullah went to
> G'itmo and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
>
> The Sean Hannity Web-site features a "subscription" to
> something called, "The Hannity Insider" for $5.95 a month.
>
> But no one tops the self proclaimed non-spinner Bill
> O'Reilly. Bill O'Reilly.com offers a "premium membership"
> for either $4.95 a month or $49.95 a year. He also offers a
> "Gift certificate" for $14.95. Products for sale on the Web
> site include:
>
>
>
>
> Radio Factor diner coffee mug available in white or navy
> blue for $14.95
>
>
> O'Reilly Factor keychain for $7.95 "while supplies last."
>
>
> Three different "No Spin" tote bags at $14.95 apiece
>
>
> Ten different hats at a cost of $16.95 each
>
>
> The "no spin" jacket for $79.95
>
>
> The " Unisex Black Fleece" embroidered with "The Spin Stops
> Here" for $39.95
>
>
> Several bumper stickers including one that reads "Boycott
> France" for $2.50
>
>
> License plate frame for $18.95
> Three different "No Spin" tote bags at $14.95 each
>
>
> An O'Reilly Factor Gear Bag at $64.95
>
>
> "Mens Garment Bag" for $64.95 (sorry ladies!)
>
>
> A "Spin Stops Here" organizer briefcase
>
>
> A "Spin Stops Here" pen and pad bundle for $19.95
>
>
> Two different designs of "Spin Stops Here" doormats for
> $49.95 and
>
>
> Two different "Rain Stops Here" umbrellas at $24.95("Show
> everyone who protects you from the rain")
>
>
>
> Mainelli's article also repeated another falsehood about Air
> America saying "More recently the 70 station left network
> has been suffering lower ratings." His corporate cousin
> O'Reilly wishfully stated on August 17 said "Air
> America-nobody is listening to it," On Aug 3rd O'Reilly
> claimed that "Air America cannot support itself because of
> low ratings," and on July 26 O'Reilly said "The Air America
> radio network continues to fail with catastrophic ratings
> here in New York City. "
>
> In fact, the ratings for the Bill O'Reilly radio show in New
> York were worse than those on Air America that he described
> as "catastrophic" In the key 25 to 54 year demographic which
> talk radio offers to advertisers, the Spring, 2005 Arbitron
> ratings showed that Monday to Friday from 2 to 4 PM when
> O'Reilly is on WOR-AM and which at Air America's 1190
> WLIB-AM contains the last hour of "The Al Franken Show" and
> the first hour of "The Randi Rhodes Show," that O'Reilly had
> a .3 share and Air America a .4 share. O'Reilly had a
> cumulative audience of 75,400 and Air America had a
> cumulative audience of 89,300.
>
> Inevitably ratings go up and down and vary from time slot to
> time slot and from market to market. Right wing bloggers
> have had fun cherry picking isolated pieces of ratings
> reports to distort the enormous enthusiasm Air America's
> growing audience has demonstrated. At the vast majority of
> our affiliates Air America ratings are up. On a nation-wide
> basis the most recent Arbitron ratings Spring 2005 book
> showed that our affiliates reach over three million people
> per week each of whom listens for an average of several
> hours a week. This is more than triple the amount of people
> who were listening when measured one year earlier in the
> Spring, 2004 book.
>
> I do not intend to write something every time something like
> this happens. In the almost six months during which I have
> been CEO of Air America Radio, I have refrained, for the
> most part, from responding to the litany of attacks, lies,
> half-truths and smears from various members of the
> right-wing media. In general, it seems to me that paying too
> much attention to these people only encourages them and that
> we, at Air America, need to get used to the fact that the
> spirited progressive opinions of our on-air talent and of
> our audience will attract the kind of mean-spirited smears
> that are endemic to contemporary political conversation.
>
> After having a near monopoly on talk radio for so many
> years, some conservative media types are literally freaked
> out at confronting robust, persistent and passionate
> opposition. On Sept. 26, O'Reilly desperately claimed that
> "Air America's basic flaw is that "Americans do not want to
> hear that their country sucks 24 hours a day." Of course the
> talent and management of Air America have a love of our
> country which is what animates all passionate debate on
> political issues form the left, right and center.
>
> It is an obsession with stifling debate --even at the cost
> of using lies and distortions, which is un-American.
>
> Danny Goldberg is the CEO of Air America Radio.
>
>
> © 2005 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
> View this story online at:
> http://www.alternet.org/story/26178/
>
Thanks for printing Mr. Goldberg's comments. You know that neither NPR or Pacifica Radio are commercial ventures. Neither accepts or broadcasts commercial announcements. AAR is a commercial venture and accepts commercial announcements. So Mr. Goldberg's comparrison to them is really not a good one.

You also know that the re-payment of money lent to AAR by the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls club was motivated at least in part by an investigation by the City of New York and the scandal that grew out of the loan to a commercial venture by the non profit group. So here again, we have something that is questionable.

Most importantly, Mr. Goldberg really makes the stretch when he tries to compare
the membership websites of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity to a donation request to keep AAR on the air. O'Reilly, Limbaugh and Hannity rely on commercial announcements to keep their programs on the air. The websites and the merchandise are yet another revenue stream above and beyond commercial announcements. Mr. Goldberg states in his letter that (a)AAR's listeners tend to be used to making donations to keep programming on the air and (b)he specifically asks for donations to keep his programming on the air.

Please note again that the three other syndicated national talk shows I mentioned earlier do not.

I won't argue ratings with you by demographic. I will say this. . .talk radio generally skews heavily 35 to 64 so a station that does well in the 25 to 54 bracket may not do so well in the 35 to 64 year old group. And I would hasten to add that in the 12+ ratings, WABC and WOR consistently beat WLIB. Now you can blame that on the fact that WLIB is a highly directional station with significant signal limitations whereas WABC is a clear channel and WOR has a directional pattern that covers everything from Boston to Baltimore. Yet the fact remains that all three stations are easily heard in New York City and the pecking order is what it is. I would also hasten to note that Mr. Limbaugh has significantly more than 3 million listeners a week.

When all is said and done, it is not important to me what the ideology of a radio network is as much it is important to me that it tries to entertain and inform listeners in a drive to build audience. See, if the listeners and advertisers aren't there. . .the programming won't be. And I believe that our medium is far more than a propaganda tool for either side of the political divide.

 

[mwebster]

Full of it

I am not PW. I don't read the blogs or publications you mention. I do read radiodailynews.com and allaccess.com. The New York Post item was from Radio Daily News, an excellent source of industry news, which I recommend highly.

You are either making a lot of assumptions here or you are the one practicing misinformation. I have been critical of Air American, but if you had bothered to read my posts, the reasons were not related to political agreement or disagreement.

One of your assumptions is PW was banned. I don't know that. How do you? Such actions are not typically announced. PW announced he was going to stop posting, however I have seen him logged on here since. Moderator CAB replied that he should have put a stop to PW's "nonsense" before. He did not mention banning and it is my understanding only the administrators can ban accounts. (This board has a great search function.)

I consider the fact that Inner City Broadcasting has dropped AAR/progressive talk on two stations to be significant, with possible implications for a third station, WLIB. Whether you want to consider it good news or bad news is up to you. Whether you think implications for WLIB are likely is also up to you.

I also find it amusing how so many people operate on the princple that what they read and agree with is TRUTH; what they don't agree with is BIAS. I suppose it's not much different from people on the music boards considering formats they like play GOOD MUSIC, formats they don't like play BAD MUSIC. Everybody has an axe to grind. One definition of objectivity is being able to acknowledge it.


>
> To put this in a little perspective: "mwebster" was
> formerly "PW," before "PW" was banned from posting on these
> boards when he went a little too far in his anti-AAR
> crusade. He relies on extreme right-wing publications (like
> the New York Post), extreme right-wing blogs (like the one
> run by unemployed talk show host Brian Maloney), and extreme
> right-wing columnists (like Michelle Malkin) for his
> misinformation. And by some strange coincidence, Bill
> O'Reilly interviewed exactly two people during his AAR
> segment the other night: right-wingers Brian Maloney and
> Michelle Malkin, both of whom seem to be spending most of
> their time trashing AAR.
>
> As for the New York Post, it erroneously said that Air
> America "announcers" were "begging" for money, when the
> truth is that no AAR host has asked for money on the air.
> The AAR "associates" program was announced in an e-mail to
> AAR listeners who had requested to be on AAR's mailing list
> and in a small box on AAR's web site. Period. No "begging"
> on the air.
>
> And Percy Sutton isn't extending any "generosity" to AAR.
> AAR leases its time from WLIB and has been paying its bills
> since the financial crisis it had a year and a half ago --
> when it was being mismanaged by former Republican operative
> Evan Cohen, whom Al Franken has rightly called a "crook."
>

 

[Scribbler]

Re: Full of it

Oh, come on, "mwebster/PW". Read your "PW" profile:

http://www.radio-info.com/mods/showprofile?User=6229

This user has been banned from posting.

As soon as you were banned from posting under one name, you transferred your obsessive anti-Air America campaign to your "mwebster" name. And you have so little understanding of radio that you somehow think that Inner City Broadcasting would break its lease agreement with Air America because of ratings, when it makes no difference to Inner City what the ratings are as long as the lease payments keep coming in.

By the way, Inner City does not own any stations in Charleston, SC so it would be impossible for it to drop Air America programming there. It does own WOIC in Columbia, which continues to carry AAR programming.

> I am not PW. I don't read the blogs or publications you
> mention. I do read radiodailynews.com and allaccess.com.
> The New York Post item was from Radio Daily News, an
> excellent source of industry news, which I recommend highly.
>
>
> You are either making a lot of assumptions here or you are
> the one practicing misinformation. I have been critical of
> Air American, but if you had bothered to read my posts, the
> reasons were not related to political agreement or
> disagreement.
>
> One of your assumptions is PW was banned. I don't know
> that. How do you? Such actions are not typically
> announced. PW announced he was going to stop posting,
> however I have seen him logged on here since. Moderator CAB
> replied that he should have put a stop to PW's "nonsense"
> before. He did not mention banning and it is my
> understanding only the administrators can ban accounts.
> (This board has a great search function.)
>
> I consider the fact that Inner City Broadcasting has dropped
> AAR/progressive talk on two stations to be significant, with
> possible implications for a third station, WLIB. Whether
> you want to consider it good news or bad news is up to you.
> Whether you think implications for WLIB are likely is also
> up to you.
>
> I also find it amusing how so many people operate on the
> princple that what they read and agree with is TRUTH; what
> they don't agree with is BIAS. I suppose it's not much
> different from people on the music boards considering
> formats they like play GOOD MUSIC, formats they don't like
> play BAD MUSIC. Everybody has an axe to grind. One
> definition of objectivity is being able to acknowledge it.
>
>
> >
> > To put this in a little perspective: "mwebster" was
> > formerly "PW," before "PW" was banned from posting on
> these
> > boards when he went a little too far in his anti-AAR
> > crusade. He relies on extreme right-wing publications
> (like
> > the New York Post), extreme right-wing blogs (like the one
>
> > run by unemployed talk show host Brian Maloney), and
> extreme
> > right-wing columnists (like Michelle Malkin) for his
> > misinformation. And by some strange coincidence, Bill
> > O'Reilly interviewed exactly two people during his AAR
> > segment the other night: right-wingers Brian Maloney and
> > Michelle Malkin, both of whom seem to be spending most of
> > their time trashing AAR.
> >
> > As for the New York Post, it erroneously said that Air
> > America "announcers" were "begging" for money, when the
> > truth is that no AAR host has asked for money on the air.
>
> > The AAR "associates" program was announced in an e-mail to
>
> > AAR listeners who had requested to be on AAR's mailing
> list
> > and in a small box on AAR's web site. Period. No
> "begging"
> > on the air.
> >
> > And Percy Sutton isn't extending any "generosity" to AAR.
>
> > AAR leases its time from WLIB and has been paying its
> bills
> > since the financial crisis it had a year and a half ago --
>
> > when it was being mismanaged by former Republican
> operative
> > Evan Cohen, whom Al Franken has rightly called a "crook."
> >
>

 

[mwebster]

Re: Full of it

Gee, apparently you think only one person in whole world could possibly disapprove of AAR.

The key phrase in your post is: "as long as the lease payments come in." I wonder if enough people will buy bumper stickers and tote bags each month to make the lease payments? You also forget that decreased sales revenues decrease the market value of the station. AAR gets less audience. AAR gets less sales revenue. The market value of the license goes down.

Also what makes you think AAR even wants to continue the LMA? They are doing better with straight syndication deals everywhere else. The LMA/network concept has not worked. Maybe it was an experiment worth trying a year and a half ago. But I at least give AAR management enough credit to allow for the possibility they might be willing to let go of the last remnant of a failed strategy.

Read the substance of my criticisms of AAR (compared to PW's). PW does not like the idea of liberal talk. I think AAR is crippling the progressive talk format through inept management and bad programming.

If you care to dispute my arguements, go ahead. But all you seem to do is make things up and engage in personal attack.

 

[Scribbler]

Re: Full of it

> Gee, apparently you think only one person in whole world
> could possibly disapprove of AAR.

No, there are plenty of AAR bashers and critics on these boards, but only you and the now-banned PW use identical syntax.
>
> The key phrase in your post is: "as long as the lease
> payments come in." I wonder if enough people will buy
> bumper stickers and tote bags each month to make the lease
> payments? You also forget that decreased sales revenues
> decrease the market value of the station. AAR gets less
> audience. AAR gets less sales revenue. The market value of
> the license goes down.

What decreased sales revenues? As Bob Marvin has correctly pointed out, AAR is loaded with spots. And the middle-class and upper middle-classs liberals who now listen to WLIB have much more buying power than the Caribbean immigrants who listened to the previous format.

> Read the substance of my criticisms of AAR (compared to
> PW's). PW does not like the idea of liberal talk. I think
> AAR is crippling the progressive talk format through inept
> management and bad programming.

In other words you've changed your approach in order to avoid being banned again. At least you've learned from that mistake. Now, how about admitting that you made a major mistake in claiming that Inner City had dropped AAR from its (non-existent) station in Charleston, SC. Clear Channel dropped AAR from WLTQ in Charleston, but that had nothing to do with Inner City.
>
> If you care to dispute my arguements, go ahead. But all you
> seem to do is make things up and engage in personal attack.

What personal attack? That you and "PW" are the same person? That's obvious and not an "attack."

 

[Scribbler]

Inner City Did NOT drop AAR in Charleston

> WHAT is owned by Inner
> City Broadcasting Company, the company operated by former
> Manhattan Borough President Percy Sutton which also own's
> WLIB, New York. ICBC recently dropped Air America Radio
> programming on its station in Charleston, SC.

In case you don't want to wade through all the back and forth below....

Inner City Broadcasting did NOT drop AAR programming from its (non-existent) station in Charleston, SC.

Inner City does own a station in South Carolina: WOIC in Columbia. It continues to carry AAR programming.

Clear Channel dropped AAR from its WLTQ in Charleston, but that had nothing to do with Inner City.

 

[tbetz]

> Yeah Bill O'Reilly was having a "Field Day" with this story
> on Tuesday Night's O'Reilly Factor on FNC.

That's particularly amusing considering that O'Reilly was just dropped in both Denver and Salt Lake City -- and in SLC he's been replaced by libtalker Ed Schultz!<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[mwebster]

Errata

Correction: The station I was thinking of that dropped AAR was in Charleston, SC. Inner City operates the station in Columbia, SOUTH Carolina (not North Carolina), WOIC which continues to carry AAR full-time.

 

[Nate Wesley]

> And by the way. . .why is it that you guys can't argue a
> point of view on its merits but always have to stoop to
> personal attacks and venom ? Think about it, first you say
> that I don't know what I am talking about and then you close
> with a comment that I want to create a conservative
> dictatorship. Come on. The sixties ended a long time ago.
> Get a hair cut. Take a shower. Buy a suit and wing tipped
> shoes.
>

Why is it that you can't adhere to your own standards? Your 'sixties' characterization is close enough to namecalling and the personal attacks you complained about.<P ID="signature">______________
"Not fixing [New Orleans'] levees before Katrina struck will now cost us untold billions. Not resolving the nation's issues of race and class has and will cost us so much more."
--Wynton Marsalis
</P>

 

[autopaint-1]

" And I
> believe that our medium is far more than a propaganda tool
> for either side of the political divide."

Do you feel the same about Rush, Laura Ingraham, Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly etc etc. It's all the same from the right or the left. What I've read is that Air America has a e-mail list of listeners. Those are the only people to whom the request for financial support was made. I've never heard any requests on the air and apparently I've read that they never made any on air requests. This entire let's make Air America look bad/Shaky is suspect. I have no doubt that all these stories could, if one wanted to extend the effort, be traced back to the same source. Meanwhile Air America continues broadcasting and expanding. Oh, in another recent comment there was the rumor that the Franken show was coming to an end, with either Franken or his co-host leaving, to the best of my knowledge they both signed multiyear contracts recently. Eventually the lies will catch up with the people responsible for them.

 

[mwebster]

Katherine Lanpher is leaving

> ... in another recent comment
> there was the rumor that the Franken show was coming to an
> end, with either Franken or his co-host leaving, to the best
> of my knowledge they both signed multiyear contracts
> recently. Eventually the lies will catch up with the people
> responsible for them.
>

Posted on the news-talk board is a link to an article in the St. Paul Pioneer Press reporting co-host Katherine Lanpher is leaving the Franken show to write a book. Lanpher previously was with Minnesota Public Radio. Franken has also publicly talked about leaving the show to make a run for the Senate from Minnesota. All this may have something to do with AAR signing Thom Hartmann whose syndicated show airs in the same time period and could be a replacement for Franken's show.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/entertainment/12776188.htm

 

[Mouth1390]

> " And I
> > believe that our medium is far more than a propaganda tool
>
> > for either side of the political divide."
>
> Do you feel the same about Rush, Laura Ingraham, Savage,
> Hannity, O'Reilly etc etc. It's all the same from the right
> or the left. What I've read is that Air America has a e-mail
> list of listeners. Those are the only people to whom the
> request for financial support was made. I've never heard any
> requests on the air and apparently I've read that they never
> made any on air requests. This entire let's make Air America
> look bad/Shaky is suspect. I have no doubt that all these
> stories could, if one wanted to extend the effort, be traced
> back to the same source. Meanwhile Air America continues
> broadcasting and expanding. Oh, in another recent comment
> there was the rumor that the Franken show was coming to an
> end, with either Franken or his co-host leaving, to the best
> of my knowledge they both signed multiyear contracts
> recently. Eventually the lies will catch up with the people
> responsible for them.
>
Actually, there is a difference between Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and AAR. The difference is simple. They were put on the air to build audience and gain advertisers. The fact that their schtick is conservative talk radio is akin to a music format. And I would hasten to add that Rush spent a lot of years toiling in the vineyards as a disc jockey and O'Reilly has been doing television for years.

The whole point of putting AAR on the air was to advance a political agenda. It was not to build audience and gain advertisers. It was about electing a President. That, unfortunately, is not how radio works.

The other fact is that AAR is the only commercial national network that has asked listeners for donations. That indicates, at least to me, that the network is having difficulty attracting enough advertisers willing to pay a network rate to succeed. As far as their talent goes. . .most are NOT radio people. And that would be okay if they were compelling enough to build an audience.

 

[Scribbler]

Re: Katherine Lanpher is leaving

> Franken has
> also publicly talked about leaving the show to make a run
> for the Senate from Minnesota. All this may have something
> to do with AAR signing Thom Hartmann whose syndicated show
> airs in the same time period and could be a replacement for
> Franken's show.

Franken has said for months that he is considering running for the U.S. Senate in 2008, three years from now. Somehow, PWmwebster forgot to mention the "three years from now" part.

 

[bierkenstock]

Re: Katherine Lanpher is leaving

Three years or three months doesn't matter. The point is he may not be around at some point and Air America has a potential replacement in place. Given all the criticism of the network's business acumen, that sounds like a sound business move.

From the news reports when the network launched, Franken is highly paid. Now Hartmann and Franken are facing off in a handful of markets. Anything can happen. If Hartmann shows ratings strength and costs less, Air America might find it is more profitable to replace Franken with Hartmann. This is radio. It wouldn't be the first time.

Another smart thing that Air America did is they made the network name the primary identifier and the format the primary draw. That means none of the talent is indispensible. In contrast to Rush Limbaugh who is the show and who is the draw.


>
> Franken has said for months that he is considering running
> for the U.S. Senate in 2008, three years from now. Somehow,
> PWmwebster forgot to mention the "three years from now"
> part.
>

 

[icybluelake]

> Actually, there is a difference between Rush Limbaugh, Laura
> Ingraham, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and
> AAR. The difference is simple. They were put on the air to
> build audience and gain advertisers. The fact that their
> schtick is conservative talk radio is akin to a music
> format.

Sorry. As Bill O'Reilly himself might say, "Not buyin' it."