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BaltimoreJack
Guest
WSCR would be pretty hard to pull out of the grave. They took down the tower and the studio building. I think the lid on SCR is pretty well closed.warmland said:
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If you bought WARM ...
- Thread starter radiophiler
- Start date
Even if WARM does the impossible and rises from the grave it will certainly be never be more than a shell of what it once was. Just like Rocky Glen Park, it's time has passed. Time marches on. Get over it people! It has been said on this board that nobody other than the guys here even know it's gone and that pretty much says it all. WARM has been one of the living dead for years. Only recently did it finally go down for the count! One other thing to consider is the fact that there are precious few transmitter engineers left who know how to work with AM RF and in particular, DIRECTIONAL ARRAYS. Kind of like trying to find someone to rebuild the suspension system of that old covered wagon you have out behind the barn! Unfortunately, more stations will probably go the way of WARM. Time marches on.
I think the lid on SCR is pretty well closed...................
Especially since the calls have been reissued in Chicago...........http://www.670thescore.com/
Especially since the calls have been reissued in Chicago...........http://www.670thescore.com/
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BaltimoreJack
Guest
When Ron Schacht left Citadel one of the real problems they had was finding an engineer who understood AMs & directional patterns. At the time Ron left Citadel-NEPA still owned the Tunkhannock AM, WCDL, WARM & WCDL, plus the Tunkhannock FM, 94.3 and the slew of FM frequencies it still operates. I believe there were 11 signals under one roof at that time. They interviewed a number of engineers from out of the area, all who ran screaming from the building with their hands in the air when they found out how much AM work they were going to have to do. Like Mr. Nairda says, there are VERY few engineers out there who can handle AM & FM transmitters, studios and computers all in one package. You can find a lot of computer & studio guys out there, but very, very few who are "The Whole Package".Nairda said:
Yeah, it sure looks that way to me. You know, I keep eyeballing this thread, swearing not to get involved. I keep turning away from it because it is so absurd. At times, it's comical. Now, though, it's fast approaching pathetic.
Consider this comment:
Where in hell do you come up with that foolishness? Top five within a year? You must be kidding. Top three for a decade? What decade? As of this moment, I wouldn't bet that terrestrial radio has ten years left. AM didn't have ten years left fifteen years ago.
Then there's this:
I might fall into that category. Got a minimum of 80K and benefits? No, I didn't think so. Who do you think you're going to get at what ridiculously low money you'll have to offer? I can see it now; $10.50 an hour to start. And you think you can lure someone away from a job with the USPS to talk on your loser radio station that no one will listen to ever?
WARM is not a salvageable property by anyone's definition. Across likely 95% of this country, AM is dead. Here and there, OK, I'll concede some AMers have managed to float. That is not the case with overwhelming majority of AM stations, and we all know that. Why do you think WILK grabbed an FM signal so fast? Why do suppose that Susquehanna put Magic 93 on the air nearly 25 years ago? Do you for a second think that most people under the age of 30 even know what AM is? I don't.
Now, here's something you resurrection advocates need to do; homework. Yes, homework. I'm not going to lay it out for you, but the financial benefits to surrendering an FCC license are considerable. Citadel will make far more money with a surrender than they would trying to cobble that loser back together, all the while hoping they could convince an audience to live in the past. Ask yourself, I mean really ask yourself and give yourself an honest answer, who would buy time on this clunker?
Here's another idea...
Contract with a Civil Engineer, consider how to lay out as many half acre sites as possible on the land that is available... Bring in a bulldozer to remove towers, buildings and any other 'problems' remaining on the land (like a few of Chet's cars that may be left... hehehe) Run underground electric, telephone (copper and fiber) plus cable... Trench in a leaky-cable AM system so old WARM re-runs can make people feel at home. Bury water and waste water systems, put the nice new concrete curbing in place, blacktop the streets and start moving in the trailer homes.
Wadda ya think? This way Citadel can still hold onto the land by leasing it to the trailer owners so if someone with some wild a$$ idea of re-building the operation comes along the sucker... errr I mean investor can just put towers back up, build out the facilities and Viola! Instant money sucker that couldn't compare to owning a boat or a fleet of Rolls Royces.
Gotta go now... there's a back-up at the Drive-Thru...
(Carry on Please...)
Contract with a Civil Engineer, consider how to lay out as many half acre sites as possible on the land that is available... Bring in a bulldozer to remove towers, buildings and any other 'problems' remaining on the land (like a few of Chet's cars that may be left... hehehe) Run underground electric, telephone (copper and fiber) plus cable... Trench in a leaky-cable AM system so old WARM re-runs can make people feel at home. Bury water and waste water systems, put the nice new concrete curbing in place, blacktop the streets and start moving in the trailer homes.
Wadda ya think? This way Citadel can still hold onto the land by leasing it to the trailer owners so if someone with some wild a$$ idea of re-building the operation comes along the sucker... errr I mean investor can just put towers back up, build out the facilities and Viola! Instant money sucker that couldn't compare to owning a boat or a fleet of Rolls Royces.
Gotta go now... there's a back-up at the Drive-Thru...
(Carry on Please...)
Dave McAndrews said:
+++smirk+++
Wait! Wasn't the idea to have a successful station?
;D
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BaltimoreJack
Guest
I suppose it's fun to speculate what you might do with WARM if you won the lottery and had a few million spare bucks to blow. But as MasterG has said, the fact that people here think that there really is a way to "save" WARM and have it turning a profit is really scary. WARM is dead & gone. There's no magic bullet, no super-secret solution. The scenario has been played out. You have FMs in NEPA that don't make any money, you might better turn your creative thoughts on what to do with them. They stand a better chance of staying alive. WILK knew the writing was on the wall, and they started simulcasts on FM. It won't be long before all the remaining area AMs will be on the critical list, unless they are at least simulcasting with an FM signal. If you really believe that there is a way to "save" WARM, put those thoughts to work on one of the FMs that don't turn a profit. 94.3, Oldies and Doug Lane's former FM come to mind. Entercom & Citadel still have FMs that are nothing but slaves to another station. Turn your speculation on what to do with these licenses, instead of worrying about how to become Jesus and raise the dead.
WOW! Almost no one here thinks WARM could be effective as a good public service anymore. Yikes! Remember WNAK? Scoring a 6 in the S-WB ratings? And its signal barely reached Scranton! - On WARM, put a mix of 50's/60's adult standards (the the good-sounding 40's too) + fun 60's oldies, and make it a listener-supported station, and it will make money in the first quarter!! The land may be worth 1/2-a-mil, but that can be paid for over time, and all one has to do is wrangle the license away from Citadel. If reality bites them in the butt, then they should realize it isn't worth more than 50k right now. Run the station bare-bones at first, with just the music. People will love it!! - I know... I've done it.. at my stations in Cambridge, Mass (740) and Bath, Maine (730)... listener-supported... which knows no decline in the economy. - And if WARM were to also score a 6 in the ratings, then you AM-naysayers would be eating crow like no tomorrow. Another good thing about AM-FM radio that new-tech advocates forget.... a lot of people like to just turn on a knob on something (radio) that is everywhere and let the music play. The radio will play it for them, with no effort on the listeners' part. There is no reason for WARM to die, unless Citadel clings to the license.
Thanks for posting JIBGUY....what a refreshing change to the thread! I read that you made your fundraising goals on fybush's column....congrats! It's nice to hear from a licensee who knows first hand from personal contact with listeners (in your case no advertisers) what radio in fact DOES mean to people in the year 2009.
For everyone....I don't know where I read it...probably from an Inside Radio or NAB or RBR or RAB daily email, but did you know that radio listening INCREASED in the past 3 years according to Arbitron on a nationwide level? It increased by a significant amount.
In markets that are losing newspapers, I would think that loss of competition would serve to be a huge advertising boom to radio and television stations. Radio needs to learn how to tap this market. More people than ever are listening to radio now....statistically proven.
I am not a head-in-the-sand guy....no doubt, the economic situation has been tough on all advertising venues alike...and AM, on it's own, is not due for a comeback or anything...but in the face of a changing media landscape, I'll bet the newspaper-only operators would LOVE to be in radio's shoes, what with their declining readership problems and not yet having the business model to make money from the web....I'll bet the TV operators would LOVE to be in radio's shoes, what with their MUCH larger staffs, news departments, increased competition from cable, satellite, larger plants to care for, etc.
The local shurfine supermarket, furniture store, jewelry store, hardware store, will ALWAYS need a place to advertise....and the internet simply ain't it. The internet is GREAT advertising for some businesses, even some on the local level....but for local businesses who are trying to sell as much stuff to people in a ten mile radius as possible, radio might just be the ONLY way to advertise within the next 10-20 years. YIPPEE!
As long as we do the best job we can serving the local community......and sell sell sell, so we can continue to offer that service.
It's not like it used to be....but it's still here....and I believe for a GOOD long time.
Ben
For everyone....I don't know where I read it...probably from an Inside Radio or NAB or RBR or RAB daily email, but did you know that radio listening INCREASED in the past 3 years according to Arbitron on a nationwide level? It increased by a significant amount.
In markets that are losing newspapers, I would think that loss of competition would serve to be a huge advertising boom to radio and television stations. Radio needs to learn how to tap this market. More people than ever are listening to radio now....statistically proven.
I am not a head-in-the-sand guy....no doubt, the economic situation has been tough on all advertising venues alike...and AM, on it's own, is not due for a comeback or anything...but in the face of a changing media landscape, I'll bet the newspaper-only operators would LOVE to be in radio's shoes, what with their declining readership problems and not yet having the business model to make money from the web....I'll bet the TV operators would LOVE to be in radio's shoes, what with their MUCH larger staffs, news departments, increased competition from cable, satellite, larger plants to care for, etc.
The local shurfine supermarket, furniture store, jewelry store, hardware store, will ALWAYS need a place to advertise....and the internet simply ain't it. The internet is GREAT advertising for some businesses, even some on the local level....but for local businesses who are trying to sell as much stuff to people in a ten mile radius as possible, radio might just be the ONLY way to advertise within the next 10-20 years. YIPPEE!
As long as we do the best job we can serving the local community......and sell sell sell, so we can continue to offer that service.
It's not like it used to be....but it's still here....and I believe for a GOOD long time.
Ben
400 Market Street is a long way from the Wyoming Valley.
KYW is also 50,000 watts. It also has about seventy-five program staff. To produce even a shadow of that type of coverage here would make WARM's technical costs seem minor in comparison.
As mentioned elsewhere, there are a handful of AM stations that are doing quite well. Contrast that with thousands of AM stations that are not doing well at all.
I'd love to know how many AMs would be left if not for sister FM stations that are carrying the financial load. WARM has Magic to thank for the length of the life support afforded it up to this point.
KYW is also 50,000 watts. It also has about seventy-five program staff. To produce even a shadow of that type of coverage here would make WARM's technical costs seem minor in comparison.
As mentioned elsewhere, there are a handful of AM stations that are doing quite well. Contrast that with thousands of AM stations that are not doing well at all.
I'd love to know how many AMs would be left if not for sister FM stations that are carrying the financial load. WARM has Magic to thank for the length of the life support afforded it up to this point.
Sorry, Jeff, but I refuse to jump on the "nobody listens to AM radio anymore" bandwagon. The truth is, it *IS* working in many, many markets.
When the FCC first mandated digital television a few years back, a friend of mine said to me, "That's nice, but when is the FCC going to realize that the problem with television isn't the screen resolution?" Well, the same holds true for AM radio. In the markets where AM is still successful, the stations are actually serving their community of license (what a concept, eh?) with something more valuable than off-the-bird oldies. Folks in the Delaware Valley have come to DEPEND on KYW for the news and information they need.
The technical issues at WARM are not as insurmountable as some on this forum would suggest. As long as the steel is sound, phasors, ground systems, and transmitters aren't rocket science. The 5KW signal on 590 in the S/W metro is just as good as the 50KW signal in the much larger Philadelphia metro area day AND night, so I'm not sure where you're coming from as far as coverage. I'm not sure of your age, Jeff, but I remember the WARM of the 60's, when I would listen to the Mighty 590 in the southern part of Wyoming Valley on a tiny transistor radio tucked under my pillow.... at night.
This is all about Citadel trying to remove a stick from the market -- nothing more, nothing less.
When the FCC first mandated digital television a few years back, a friend of mine said to me, "That's nice, but when is the FCC going to realize that the problem with television isn't the screen resolution?" Well, the same holds true for AM radio. In the markets where AM is still successful, the stations are actually serving their community of license (what a concept, eh?) with something more valuable than off-the-bird oldies. Folks in the Delaware Valley have come to DEPEND on KYW for the news and information they need.
The technical issues at WARM are not as insurmountable as some on this forum would suggest. As long as the steel is sound, phasors, ground systems, and transmitters aren't rocket science. The 5KW signal on 590 in the S/W metro is just as good as the 50KW signal in the much larger Philadelphia metro area day AND night, so I'm not sure where you're coming from as far as coverage. I'm not sure of your age, Jeff, but I remember the WARM of the 60's, when I would listen to the Mighty 590 in the southern part of Wyoming Valley on a tiny transistor radio tucked under my pillow.... at night.
This is all about Citadel trying to remove a stick from the market -- nothing more, nothing less.
jeffwoehrle said:
Joe,
WARM was the station of my youth...seventies, for the most part. The WARM legend goes farther back than my school morning listening, but Harry West told me when the snow was too deep.
It's not that I'm down on AM, but I am realistic. I've worked with a directional array and know full well the cost involved in doing it by the book. I also know that every dime you spend on the tower system has to be made up via advertising revenue (or the listener-supported model discussed elsewhere). In WARM's case, it is a massive technical plant in a market much smaller than Philadelphia. Even ten percent of KYW's program staffing is not sustainable by an AM station in this market. Probably not by many FMs here, either.
As I said, if you wouldn't have an FM in your combo or cluster, you'd be up against impossible odds of making your nut. I'd venture a guess that 90% of today's AM stations nationwide would go dark if not for an FM cash cow holding them up.
You certainly CAN make a small fortune with AM radio. Most likely if you start with a large fortune.
WARM was the station of my youth...seventies, for the most part. The WARM legend goes farther back than my school morning listening, but Harry West told me when the snow was too deep.
It's not that I'm down on AM, but I am realistic. I've worked with a directional array and know full well the cost involved in doing it by the book. I also know that every dime you spend on the tower system has to be made up via advertising revenue (or the listener-supported model discussed elsewhere). In WARM's case, it is a massive technical plant in a market much smaller than Philadelphia. Even ten percent of KYW's program staffing is not sustainable by an AM station in this market. Probably not by many FMs here, either.
As I said, if you wouldn't have an FM in your combo or cluster, you'd be up against impossible odds of making your nut. I'd venture a guess that 90% of today's AM stations nationwide would go dark if not for an FM cash cow holding them up.
You certainly CAN make a small fortune with AM radio. Most likely if you start with a large fortune.
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