If you the clout to change/create a local TV Guide edition pre-2005

[Tim from Springfield IL]

The discussion about the Jan. 23, 1972 Evansville-Paducah TVG listing got me wondering about something on my mind for a while. If TV Guide still published local editions, or if you had the clout before fall 2005 to change/realign existing local edition territories/lineups or create new TVG editions, which ones would you have liked to see changed or created?

My ideas for Illinois:

--Illinois-Wisconsin edition (Rockford/Madison, also carried Milwaukee and Chicago listings): I would have brought that edition's territory into north central Illinois (perhaps Peoria northward) and added stations from the Quad Cities and Peoria/Bloomington--and maybe the Champaign/Urbana side (maybe just WCIA-3 and WILL-12 only due to historic cable coverage) of the Champaign/Springfield market. It would have probably split into separate "Northern Illinois" and "Southern Wisconsin" editions.

The Western and Eastern Illinois editions would have, for the most part, combined into a "Central Illinois" edition with the Champaign/Springfield, Peoria and Quincy/Hannibal (and KTVO-3 Kirksville/Ottumwa) channels in their primary area, plus also carrying stations from Terre Haute, St. Louis and the Quad Cities.

Then at least the major St. Louis, Memphis and Louisville stations, and all of the Terre Haute channels, could have been added to the Evansville-Paducah edition--with the edition's territory at the footstep of the St. Louis metro area.

The St. Louis edition could have been limited to a cable-only edition--with the rural areas of the market either getting Central Illinois, Evansville-Paducah, or a Missouri edition that could have been realigned itself to also add St. Louis and Quincy/Hannibal/Kirksville stations.

How would have you changed the old TV Guide channel lineups in their good old "local" days if you had the clout?

 

[KML0224]

The old Hartford/New Haven Edition covered Hartford, New Haven, New Britain (WVIT), Waterbury (WTXX, now WCCT), New London (WTWS, now WHPX), Springfield, MA and the VHF stations from New York City/Secaucus, NJ. WSBK-TV of Boston was listed as "38B" under cable. I think CPTV (Connecticut Public Television) was listed with 24/53/65 bullets (24 of Hartford, 53 of Norwich and 65 of New Haven). I don't think WEDW-TV channel 49 of Bridgeport was listed. WUVN-TV (UNI) channel 18 of Hartford was missing for a long time, with the previous WHCT-TV channel 18 being forced off the air in 1991.

I sometimes wonder how subchannels would've been listed in a 2013 edition. I think a rectangular "61-2" bullet for Antenna TV on WTIC-TV 61-2 would look strange!

 

[azumanga]

I would have created the Western New England edition by merging the Hartford / New Haven edition with the Springfield / Chicopee / Holyoke edition, especially as SCH had the greatest proportion of white bullets (for out of town channels) to black bullets (for local channels, in which only three were represented).

 

[crainbebo]

I would have created a Southwest Washington edition.

All stores S of Olympia, WA and North of Vancouver, WA, and anywhere in the SW WA Cascades, or SW WA coast (Long Beach, Raymond, etc) would have gotten a TVG that included 4/5/7/9/11/13/16/22/28/33 Seattle, and 2/6/8/10/12/22/32/49 Portland, OR, + CBUT 2 Vancouver. Don't some cable providers out there offer both Seattle networks and Portland networks?

-crainbebo

 

[harrisburgpatv]

The two editions I followed the most (from age 6, believe it or not), were the Southeast PA edition and the Central PA edition. The Southeast PA edition had broadcast stations for the Harrisburg area (8-NBC, 15-UPN**, 21-CBS, 27-ABC, 33-PBS, 43-FOX), Philly (3-CBS, 6-ABC, 10-NBC, 12-PBS, 17-WB**, 29-FOX, 57-UPN**), Baltimore (2-ABC, 11-NBC, 13-CBS, 45-FOX), but only for DC, 5-FOX.
(** as UPN and WB were still around in 2005...no CW or MY until 2006)

There are cable systems (close to the PA/MD line) around Chambersburg who carry some more DC stations (such as 4-NBC, 7-ABC, and 9-CBS). Not sure if Chambersburg was a "Two TV Guide Town" (that always interested me), and numerous ones closer to Maryland who carried MPT. None of those stations were carried in the SE PA edition. Honorary mention would go to WGCB from Red Lion.

As far as for the Central PA edition, they carried the aforementioned Harrisburg and Philly channels, along with New York (2-CBS, 4-NBC, 5-FOX, 7-ABC, 9-UPN, 11-WB), and Scranton (16-ABC, 22-CBS, 28-NBC, 38-WB, 44-PBS, 56-FOX, 64-PAX), Allentown (39-PBS, 69-Ind.). At one point they carried 13-PBS from the NYC area but dropped it sometime in 1981 or 1982. There are also some systems who carry Binghamton - those stations should have been included...

 

[azumanga]

I would have created a Southwest Washington edition.

All stores S of Olympia, WA and North of Vancouver, WA, and anywhere in the SW WA Cascades, or SW WA coast (Long Beach, Raymond, etc) would have gotten a TVG that included 4/5/7/9/11/13/16/22/28/33 Seattle, and 2/6/8/10/12/22/32/49 Portland, OR, + CBUT 2 Vancouver. Don't some cable providers out there offer both Seattle networks and Portland networks?

The Eastern Washington State edition, in the early-1980s, also included the major channels from Portland and Seattle, as well as KVOS Bellingham and CHEK-TV Victoria. Why not a true statewide edition sold outside the Seattle, Spokane and Vancouver WA areas? Just add the missing channels not already included in the Eastern WA edition.

 

[crainbebo]

I have an Eastern WA from Aug 1968, but it only lists stations east of the Cascades, all WA except for KLEW/3, KUID/12 and KTVR/13 La Grande, OR (now a PBS station). The weird thing is that KTVR aired NBC way earlier than anyone else. Johnny Carson aired at 9:30PM there. Today aired at 6AM, and Jeopardy (Art Fleming) aired at 9AM, compared to 11AM on KHQ/KNDO.

-crainbebo

 

[azumanga]

I have an Eastern WA from Aug 1968, but it only lists stations east of the Cascades, all WA except for KLEW/3, KUID/12 and KTVR/13 La Grande, OR (now a PBS station). The weird thing is that KTVR aired NBC way earlier than anyone else. Johnny Carson aired at 9:30PM there. Today aired at 6AM, and Jeopardy (Art Fleming) aired at 9AM, compared to 11AM on KHQ/KNDO.

This was because KTVR repeated KTVB Boise, which was on Mountain Time, while La Grande was in Pacific.

 

[Mike Stroud]

Oh, man, I was thinking about starting a thread about this very thing. Thanks, Tim, for taking the first step.

Since I am one of the Southern boys who haunt this great forum, I've got me a few "idears" about the subject. "Yawl" listen up, now.

--I always thought the Nashville edition, with only that market's stations and those in Bowling Green and southern Kentucky, was a waste. Add white bullets for stations in Chattanooga and Huntsville (yes, with its UHFs) at least, and you touch all parts of Middle Tennessee.

--While I remember that Nashville stations were carried on cable in northern Alabama, their listings in that area's edition came at the expense of folks in the central counties of the state who could get Montgomery's WSFA, for example. Trade off the Nashville channels for, say, WSFA, Selma/Montgomery's WSLA/WAKA, maybe Columbus' WRBL and WTVM (for eastern Alabama), and, while at it, why not the Atlanta Vs? At least things would have been a shade more interesting. I felt badly over the years for the folks in the middle of the state who had to put up with channels in either the Northern (Nashville) or Southern (Dothan, Panama City) Alabama editions that they couldn't possibly get. I suspect, as a result, circulation and retail sales in those counties was much lower than elsewhere, with folks probably depending more on listings in their local paper instead, where both the Birmingham and Montgomery stations were carried.

I'm out of time right now, but I'll think of some more later on.

 

[cwf1701]

My Version of the Detroit Edition would have included the Flint area (5, 12, 25, 28), Additional stations from SW Ontario (22, 29, 32, 42, 54), and Lansing (6, 10, 23)

 

[KML0224]

Didn't Detroit mostly omit most of the north and west so they could include the much closer Toledo, OH market (11, 13, 24 and 36)? Carrying the listings of CBET-TV (CBC) channel 9 of Windsor, ON was a no-brainer.

 

[dxtrfn]

If I had to revise the Central Virginia Edition (before it merged with Eastern Virginia Edition) today I would include WVPT-51 PBS (Harrisonburg) as it is on cable in Lynchburg. It was in the edition until removed in the late 80's. Add the Richmond Channels as they are on cable in Buckingham County. Also would add UNC-TV as all the border counties carry it on cable.

 

[Charles1]

Around 2003 an edition for Charter cable subscribers in Alabama was introduced. It included the listings for Birmingham (6, 13, 21, 33, 40, 42 & 68), Montgomery (8, 12, 20, 32 & 67) and Huntsville (15, 19, 31, 48 & 54) stations, but also included the channel grids for virtually every area in Alabama and eastern Mississippi that Charter had the local cable franchise.

However, there were no program listings for stations in Columbus, GA (3, 9, 38, 54, 66), Columbus/Tupelo/West Point, MS (4, 9, 27, 45), Dothan (4, 18, 34), Jackson, TN (7), or Chattanooga (3, 9, 12) that were available to at least some of the Charter subscribers in the areas that this edition was distributed to. Had all of those channels been added to the listings, it would have been as unwieldy as the South Georgia edition that we all like to make fun of. There would have been two 3's (Columbus, GA and Chattanooga), two 4's (Columbus, MS and Dothan), two 9's (Tupelo and Columbus, GA), two 12's (Montgomery and Chattanooga), and even two 54's (Huntsville and Columbus, GA).

This is the approximate numerical lineup of each network. Good luck trying to figure out how to make the shading of the bullets among the markets workable:

CBS: 3 (CGA)-4 (CMS)-4 (D)-8-12 (CTN)-19-42
NBC: 3 (CTN)-9 (Tup)-12 (Mont)-13-38-48
Fox: 6-20-27-34-54 (Hsv)-54 (CGA)
ABC: 7-9 (CTN)-18-31-32-33-40-45
UPN: 15-66-67-68
WB: 21

Readers would have been spared these duplicates because of generic bullets for statewide PBS networks: 7 (PBS, Mount Cheaha, AL), and a 3rd Channel 12 (Booneville, MS). And since local TBN stations were generally not listed by channel number, a second channel 45 (Montgomery) would not have been included.

 

[Mike Stroud]

Here's some other ideas for back in the day (we're talking about the Triangle/Annenberg era, I presume):

--St. Louis: sure those VHFs were plenty strong to cover all of eastern Missouri and about half of southern Illinois, but why only them? How about throwing in KOMU (8) in Columbia and KRCG (13) in Jefferson City, for starters? Some white-bullet possibilities would have been KHQA (7) in Hannibal, Missouri; WGEM (10) in Quincy, Illinois; WSIL (3) in Harrisburg, Illinois; KFVS (12) in Cape Girardeau, Missouri.

--Memphis: except for KAIT (8) in Jonesboro and Arkansas ETV, the eastern part of Arkansas is ignored. White bullets for the Little Rock Vs (KARK-4, KATV-7, KTHV-11) wouldn't have been much of a problem. For the northern counties of West Tennessee, throw in KFVS and WPSD (6) in Paducah, Kentucky. Since I have read stories about how Nashville stations appeared on cable systems in the small towns in West Tennessee, I suspect white bullets for the Nashville Vs (except for public station WDCN) could have easily gone in there too.

--New Orleans: I never saw the need for a separate edition for that area alone, as the Big Easy's Vs were carried in both the Louisiana and Gulf Coast editions (contrary to the list on Wikipedia, I remember those).

--the old Georgia/North Georgia editions: I always thought the Columbus Vs (WRBL-3 and WTVM-9) would have been all right--just make them both black bullets so as to contrast with Chattanooga's (WRCB-3 and WTVC-9) white ones, or vice versa.

--Washington-Baltimore: I don't suppose it would have been unwieldy to include the V stations from Philadelphia and Richmond, would it? Add the several stand-alone small stations in northern Virginia too. After all, it included Lancaster, Pennsylvania's WGAL (8) for many years.

Proof that TVG wasn't always strange about arbitrary boundaries in my view was the inclusion of Charlotte, North Carolina in both the Carolina-Tennessee and North Carolina editions. I also thought it curious that the nation's largest market, New York City, for years included Connecticut stations (and later, New Jersey's state PBS network) in the Metro edition.

I know, I know about the old 15% rule. But grade B or even rimshot coverage should have been taken into account in some of the instances back then.

 

[Charles1]

Another change would have been to include the Indianapolis, Terre Haute and Dayton stations in the edition that served Louisville and Lexington, thus combining four editions into one by eliminating separate editions for northern and eastern Kentucky, southern Indiana and SW Ohio. The only drawback to this idea would have been that due to significant Grade-B coverage in SW Ohio, you would also have to included at least the VHF stations from Columbus, as well.

And back to the Northern Alabama edition: a case could have been made for including at least WTOK-11 from Meridian, if not all three Meridian stations, since their OTA signal covered a part of the market served by that edition.

Another "weirdity": the Southern Mississippi edition included WTVA-9 from Tupelo and WLOV-27 from West Point, but it didn't include WCBI-4 from Columbus. Last time I checked, Columbus is about 55 miles S of Tupelo, and about 20 miles S of West Point.

 

[Tim from Springfield IL]

--St. Louis: sure those VHFs were plenty strong to cover all of eastern Missouri and about half of southern Illinois, but why only them? How about throwing in KOMU (8) in Columbia and KRCG (13) in Jefferson City, for starters? Some white-bullet possibilities would have been KHQA (7) in Hannibal, Missouri; WGEM (10) in Quincy, Illinois; WSIL (3) in Harrisburg, Illinois; KFVS (12) in Cape Girardeau, Missouri.

You could have also thrown in stations from Terre Haute, Champaign/Decatur/Springfield, Evansville, Paducah, and perhaps Springfield, MO as well.

However, in that case this hypothetical St. Louis edition could have been split into separate "Southern Illinois" and "Eastern Missouri" editions, both of which would have carried St. Louis, Quincy/Hannibal (plus Kirksville) and Cape Girardeau/Paducah/Harrisburg. Maybe Peoria/Bloomington listings could have also been included in a "Southern Illinois" edition if that hypothetical edition would have been the one sold here in the Springfield area (for the benefit of viewers in Menard, Cass and Logan counties that have had historical cable and/or Grade B coverage of Peoria stations in addition to those from Springfield--plus with a good antenna channels 25 and 31 from Peoria have been the best bets of receiving Peoria channels in the capitol city proper).

Summary of my other alternative scenarios for fictitious TV Guide local editions:

"Southern Illinois": St. Louis, Springfield/Decatur/Champaign, Paducah/Cape Girardeau/Carbondale/Harrisburg, Quincy/Hannibal/Keokuk/Macomb, Kirksville/Ottumwa, Terre Haute, Peoria/Bloomington, Evansville.

"Eastern Missouri": St. Louis, Quincy, Kirksville, Paducah/CG, Columbia/Jeff City, Springfield (MO).

"Western Missouri": Columbia, KC, Kirksville, Springfield, Joplin, Fayetteville, St. Joseph, Quincy/Hannibal (possibly).

"Northern Illinois" Chicago, Rockford, Quad Cities, Peoria/Bloomington, Quincy/Hannibal, Kirksville/Ottumwa, Champaign/Decatur/Springfield, plus Dubuque, IA and KIIN-12 Iowa City (PBS)--and MAYBE the rest of Cedar Rapids/Waterloo (if this edition was extended into the Iowa side of the Quad Cities market as an "Illowa" or N IL/Eastern Iowa edition).

The St. Louis and Chicago editions would have been cable-only.

 

[Mike Stroud]

Here's some other ideas for back in the day (we're talking about the Triangle/Annenberg era, I presume):

--St. Louis: sure those VHFs were plenty strong to cover all of eastern Missouri and about half of southern Illinois, but why only them? How about throwing in KOMU (8) in Columbia and KRCG (13) in Jefferson City, for starters? Some white-bullet possibilities would have been KHQA (7) in Hannibal, Missouri; WGEM (10) in Quincy, Illinois; WSIL (3) in Harrisburg, Illinois; KFVS (12) in Cape Girardeau, Missouri.

--Memphis: except for KAIT (8) in Jonesboro and Arkansas ETV, the eastern part of Arkansas is ignored. White bullets for the Little Rock Vs (KARK-4, KATV-7, KTHV-11) wouldn't have been much of a problem. For the northern counties of West Tennessee, throw in KFVS and WPSD (6) in Paducah, Kentucky. Since I have read stories about how Nashville stations appeared on cable systems in the small towns in West Tennessee, I suspect white bullets for the Nashville Vs (except for public station WDCN) could have easily gone in there too.

--New Orleans: I never saw the need for a separate edition for that area alone, as the Big Easy's Vs were carried in both the Louisiana and Gulf Coast editions (contrary to the list on Wikipedia, I remember those).

--the old Georgia/North Georgia editions: I always thought the Columbus Vs (WRBL-3 and WTVM-9) would have been all right--just make them both black bullets so as to contrast with Chattanooga's (WRCB-3 and WTVC-9) white ones, or vice versa.

--Washington-Baltimore: I don't suppose it would have been unwieldy to include the V stations from Philadelphia and Richmond, would it? Add the several stand-alone small stations in northern Virginia too. After all, it included Lancaster, Pennsylvania's WGAL (8) for many years.

Proof that TVG wasn't always strange about arbitrary boundaries in my view was the inclusion of Charlotte, North Carolina in both the Carolina-Tennessee and North Carolina editions. I also thought it curious that the nation's largest market, New York City, for years included Connecticut stations (and later, New Jersey's state PBS network) in the Metro edition.

I know, I know about the old 15% rule. But grade B or even rimshot coverage should have been taken into account in some of the instances back then.

Aw, damn, I forgot to check the "Don't use smileys" option when rendering the numeral "8." That's the only thing I hate about this forum. To quote Charlie Brown, "rats."

 

[azumanga]

Another change would have been to include the Indianapolis, Terre Haute and Dayton stations in the edition that served Louisville and Lexington, thus combining four editions into one by eliminating separate editions for northern and eastern Kentucky, southern Indiana and SW Ohio.

Unfortunately, at the time TVG discontinued local editions, most Indiana was still on year-round eastern Standard Time (except areas closest to Cincinnati and Louisville, as well as the Central Time portion), meaning that in most of Southern Indiana, such an edition won't do no good without viewers knowing to subtract one hour from the listed time.

 

[Charles1]

Another change would have been to include the Indianapolis, Terre Haute and Dayton stations in the edition that served Louisville and Lexington, thus combining four editions into one by eliminating separate editions for northern and eastern Kentucky, southern Indiana and SW Ohio.

Unfortunately, at the time TVG discontinued local editions, most Indiana was still on year-round eastern Standard Time (except areas closest to Cincinnati and Louisville, as well as the Central Time portion), meaning that in most of Southern Indiana, such an edition won't do no good without viewers knowing to subtract one hour from the listed time.

As Homer Simpson would say: "DOH!" I had totally forgotten about that.

 

[KML0224]

Don't you mean (_8(I) - D'oh! ?