If you were gonna change the format of . . .

[Kent]

2. they aren't flipping back to Rock cause the format isn't a popular format anymore for radio period, if you want rock music, just go online and listen to it on a stream of a radio station in a different market online, Spotify, Pandora, etc, or get a Sirius XM subscription (or if you have Dish, tune to the SiriusXM channels) and tune to SiriusXM Octane, Ozzy's Boneyard, Hair Nation, Liquid Metal, Alt Nation, XMU and Lithium to get your rock fix.

It's not necessarily that rock isn't a popular format for radio, but that it appeals to white males. That demographic is declining in terms of its share of the audience in DFW.

5. Dallas is not LA and KLAC works as a radio home for a sports team cause it's pretty much a decent signal in the LA market while 1190 again has been a bad signal for a while.

Dallas is definitely not LA. Ultimately, what will work as a radio home for a sports team is whatever both sides will agree works. I can't imagine, however, that the Mavs would be happy with being put on 1190, especially with 1190's nighttime signal and most of their games being at night.

6. most of the post on here are from people who aren't working in or worked in the radio industry (including me, who have been a big enough fan of radio to the point that i come here to follow up on what's going on in the industry), only Dave and this thread's OP Kramer (of Kramer & Twitch fame) had worked in this business

Can't speak for everybody, but The Big A and I have also worked in the radio industry. Granted, unlike David and Kramer, I have never had a radio job in Dallas. I've lived there and spent some of my formative years in Tarrant County, but I've only had decent radio jobs in markets smaller than 100 and have just played in garbage time in medium markets. Most of the positions I've had in medium markets don't even exist today because automation has completely replaced them. I might not know as much as David and Kramer know, but business is business. Maybe I was never and would never be good enough to work in DFW, but a lot of talent that is never gets the chance. Luck, timing, and connections are as important as, if not more important than, talent and quality when it comes to landing radio jobs.

7. if the station's not doing well in the ratings at the 1 year mark of the format, then they would had blown it up and flipped it already, and to a format that works well with The Mavs radio broadcast rights or iHeartMedia would have voided the contract and gave the Mavs up to either KRLD FM 105.3 The Fan & Newsradio 1080 KRLD, Cumulus for WBAP, KLIF or KTCK, or maybe force the Mavs to buy a radio station to turn into it's in house radio home.

iHeart is probably willing to give The Freak at least two years because making good money in radio usually takes at least that long after a format change.

 

[Kramer]

The Eagle was making more money than the Freak. It's a fact, not opinion. The Eagle could have been fine with some tweaking of the music and getting rid of the talk shows and Mavs. It would have been easy. FAR less dollars spent on staff as well.

 

[Kramer]

"7. if the station's not doing well in the ratings at the 1 year mark of the format, then they would had blown it up and flipped it already, and to a format that works well with The Mavs radio broadcast rights or iHeartMedia would have voided the contract and gave the Mavs up to either KRLD FM 105.3 The Fan & Newsradio 1080 KRLD, Cumulus for WBAP, KLIF or KTCK, or maybe force the Mavs to buy a radio station to turn into it's in house radio home."

When I interviewed with KEGL when I first got here, the PD told me to my face that the Mavs are just there. No ratings. No revenue. I asked why he had them on and he said it wasn't his decision to make.

That is iHeart. It's the most unpredictable and backwards ass company in a lot of markets. In others, it's ran better than anything else in the industry. Just my 2 cents.

 

[TheBigA]

The Eagle was making more money than the Freak. It's a fact, not opinion. The Eagle could have been fine with some tweaking of the music and getting rid of the talk shows and Mavs. It would have been easy. FAR less dollars spent on staff as well.

They kept tweaking the music, and the ratings kept going down. It wasn't like they didn't try. The audience just stopped listening. They weren't going to get rid of the talk shows or the Mavs. Then they fired the market manager.

They already own KZPS. If they were going to do something to KEGL musically, it would have been like KZPS. The new rock market simply isn't worth it.

 

[Kramer]

No.

The music was all over the place. One song would be heavy alt, into an ancient song from the 60s back into a recurrent from Godsmack. Imagine Dragons ain't gonna work on KEGL. The music would have taken less than a week to fix.

I've said it once, and will say it again, the only talk show on that station the audience would accept is Russ. They kept trying to recreate that - and that's what got them into trouble. If the station played the right music, had some of it's legendary jocks, had a solid morning show and upped it's digital game, it would have been consistently in the top 10. (Top 5 25-54) I couldn't believe what a train wreck it was when we initially came back in May of last year.

So now here we sit- less ratings than the Eagle and less revenue than the Eagle. Massive payroll with all those people on air, producers, etc. So yes, the odds it could change at the start of the year should be high. There's been ZERO impact in either ratings nor billing. Why would you keep shelling out money for something that isn't going to work. The reason they hired Rhyner was to get a quick audience - and holy sh*t did THAT backfire.

"The new rock market simply isn't worth it." - I agree on some level, however, it should have been music from 1995-2015ish. Dad Rock stuff. And by Dad Rock Stuff I mean Shinedown, Godsmack, Foo Fighters, Linkin Park, System of a Down, Tool, Slipknot, Manson, etc. I could sit here and list 300 bands. It should never have played ANY alternative unless it was a crossover rock hit, and it should NEVER EVER EVER go past 1995. (Because of KZPS) We have to remember, even DROWNING POOL at this point is classic rock. PD's are forgetting how far into the Century we are.

Off soap box.

 

[charles1234]

Will KZPS start adding the music The Eagle used to play on here?

 

[TheBigA]

The music was all over the place. One song would be heavy alt, into an ancient song from the 60s back into a recurrent from Godsmack. Imagine Dragons ain't gonna work on KEGL. The music would have taken less than a week to fix.

As I said, dedicating two frequencies to rock music isn't worth it. They've got that sales demo covered already.

 

[Loverofradio]

The Eagle was making more money than the Freak. It's a fact, not opinion. The Eagle could have been fine with some tweaking of the music and getting rid of the talk shows and Mavs. It would have been easy. FAR less dollars spent on staff as well.

It’s funny. You’ve worked in the building, and know whats going on. But, each time I post this, I’m always met with “you’re wrong”. ”That’s not correct.” ”You’re just passionate about the Eagle.” 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

 

[Kramer]

It’s funny. You’ve worked in the building, and know whats going on. But, each time I post this, I’m always met with “you’re wrong”. ”That’s not correct.” ”You’re just passionate about the Eagle.” 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

I could be wrong. I'm not being confrontational, I'm just giving you my opinion, however, the fact is the EAGLE was making more money than the Freak is making. That's a fact. Yes, I am passionate about The Eagle, but it's gone and will never come back. What bothers me is how little effort was being put into something that sucked, unlike the Freak, which a LOT of effort and passion is going into it, but it sucks. Taking off my bitter hat, I'd appreciate the Freak if it were doing man talk correctly. I think it's a fantastic idea. 2 mistakes - and again not to hurt your feelings but this is my opinion (cuz this is a message board) - 1) Investing that much in to Mike Rhyner, a man in his late 70's - and building a station around him when he was the central player on a competing station - is a massive mistake of gigantic proportions. No one cares, and if they do care, they're bitter that he went there and 2) This is not man talk. There is no edge to this station. It sounds like men covering women topics, there's no prep on any of the shows, the stopsets are 15 minutes long, they do remotes that no one comes to and it makes me cringe. MAN talk is The Bone in Tampa or Real Radio in Orlando. In fact the night show piped in from Orlando is the only show that really even belongs on the station.

I've been in talk for over 20 years, and I've been an operations manager. I've done talk and rock. My radio career spans 30 years. I don't claim to know everything and trust me, I know my weaknesses - and there are many. I DO however know what wins with men, and if you need proof as to whether I'm right or wrong, check the ratings.

How long do you give the Freak if you're management? How long do you keep paying this massive, gigantic payroll - while getting zero results in either ratings or revenue? Back to my original question, if you change it - what to? I didn't start this thread to get into the minutia of The Freak, The Eagle, or any other station. I asked given what's in the market, what format would you choose that could actually be competitive and garner revenue . . .

 

[Kent]

If the station played the right music, had some of it's legendary jocks, had a solid morning show and upped it's digital game, it would have been consistently in the top 10. (Top 5 25-54) I couldn't believe what a train wreck it was when we initially came back in May of last year.

Looking at KVIL's ratings, the numbers support that a rock station playing the right music can be successful in DFW. Two rockers playing the right music is probably one too many, but one certainly can work. The Eagle had lots of problems: bad talk, bad music, and basketball. In a sense, it fixed the music problem by getting rid of it. Still has the bad talk and the basketball programming, though.

Will KZPS start adding the music The Eagle used to play on here?

Why? It didn’t work on 97.1, and KVIL is already playing it. KZPS and The Eagle already played a few of the same songs, but I wouldn’t look for it to add many to the mix.

 

[MarkW]

KXTE in Vegas dumped its talk shows recently, made the station much more music intensive, and saw a big time rise in ratings. The talk experiment lasted maybe six to eight months.

Would be great to see 97.1 take a similar path, but with its hosts likely having guaranteed contracts in place for a while, we are probably at least a year away from seeing any potential return to music.

KXTE, unlike KEGL, piped in shows from out of market (two of which came from Beasley 's own stations, I believe) and still kept some music dayparts even during its talk heavy phase, so pivoting back to music on a full time basis was probably pretty easy.

 

[E-Cam]

We have to remember, even DROWNING POOL at this point is classic rock. PD's are forgetting how far into the Century we are.

Off soap box.

Tell that to Star 102.1, who, even going into 2024 I'm sure, are still saying "80s, 90s, and today" like we're in 2004.

 

[Kramer]

Looking at KVIL's ratings, the numbers support that a rock station playing the right music can be successful in DFW. Two rockers playing the right music is probably one too many, but one certainly can work. The Eagle had lots of problems: bad talk, bad music, and basketball. In a sense, it fixed the music problem by getting rid of it. Still has the bad talk and the basketball programming, though.



Why? It didn’t work on 97.1, and KVIL is already playing it. KZPS and The Eagle already played a few of the same songs, but I wouldn’t look for it to add many to the mix.

Excellent post. Right on the money. However, the market could support an alt station and a TRUE rock station - with a good morning show.

 

[TheBigA]

However, the market could support an alt station and a TRUE rock station - with a good morning show.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? New York can't support anything more than a classic rock station (plus a few lowly rated college stations that play rock). The minority population of Dallas is a higher percentage than New York. Dallas is doing better now than New York. Modern rock is struggling in markets that don't have rock heritage. Trying to build rock radio heritage is a very long process because the audience has already found what it wants on other platforms. Building a "good morning show" is not as easy as it sounds, as Kevin Kline demonstrates at KROQ. His biggest problem was replacing Kevin & Bean.

 

[macattack]

KXTE in Vegas dumped its talk shows recently, made the station much more music intensive, and saw a big time rise in ratings. The talk experiment lasted maybe six to eight months.

Would be great to see 97.1 take a similar path, but with its hosts likely having guaranteed contracts in place for a while, we are probably at least a year away from seeing any potential return to music.

KXTE, unlike KEGL, piped in shows from out of market (two of which came from Beasley 's own stations, I believe) and still kept some music dayparts even during its talk heavy phase, so pivoting back to music on a full time basis was probably pretty easy.

It should be noted that KXTE, when it returned to music, became another Active-leaning Alternative. It’s actually nearly as heavy as KPNT and WCYY. It’s likely an indicator of how playing the “right” music is just as important as having the right DJs or having a strong morning show.

 

[TheBigA]

It should be noted that KXTE, when it returned to music, became another Active-leaning Alternative. It’s actually nearly as heavy as KPNT and WCYY.

It rocks harder than co-owned WMMR in Philadelphia or WRIF Detroit. They play more currents than the competition (KOMP). Playlist has 400 songs. Over 20 currents, with the heavies getting 30 spins a week.

 

[MarkW]

I listen to WRIF a lot. I live six miles from their TX site.

While KXTE definitely plays some active rock titles most alt stations refuse to touch (both gold and currents), I think WRIF is more amenable to giving nu metal and classic metal artists airplay. Songs from such artists comprise a higher percentage of WRIF's playlist.

Alt 105.1 in Louisville has pivoted its playlist to a KPNT-like model in recent months and has seen its paltry 0.7 or 0.8 share double to a 1.5 or 1.6. (Small class A signal that probably struggles indoors in the middle of town.)

 

[TheBigA]

While KXTE definitely plays some active rock titles most alt stations refuse to touch (both gold and currents), I think WRIF is more amenable to giving nu metal and classic metal artists airplay. Songs from such artists comprise a higher percentage of WRIF's playlist.

WRIF plays more classic rock, such as Zepplin and other 70s songs. The oldest song I see at KXTE in1990.

 

[MarkW]

WRIF usually plays a couple pre-Seattle era cuts an hour, usually from Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Motley Crue, Van Halen, AC/DC, or Ozzy. They don't play as much 80s era Metallica as they once did. They do play Kiss, Quiet Riot, Poison, Whitesnake and the like on occasion.

I never hear Rush, Tom Petty, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Queen (thank God) or Pink Floyd on WRIF.

Of course, KXTE plays none of the above.

 

[TheBigA]

I never hear Rush, Tom Petty, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Queen (thank God) or Pink Floyd on WRIF.

Because Beasley also owns the classic rocker in town. So it's a narrow lane.

Comparing this to Dallas, my take is that iHeart has a smaller potential audience (in terms of percentage) base to market to, which is why I said earlier that splitting this audience doesn't work for them. What we don't know is how the syndicating of WRIF's morning show helps the finances of their respective stations. iHeart could potentially put Woody on in Dallas with a localized music list, but Woody hasn't been doing well in markets outside of LA.